It is proposed to take items Nos. 13, 3, 4 and 14.
It is also proposed that any division demanded today shall be postponed until 6.45 p.m. on Wednesday next, 26 February 1992.
Order of Business.
May I ask if the postponement of any division is agreed?
That is agreed.
Deputy John Bruton on the Order of Business proper.
I beg your indulgence, Sir, to say through you to the Taoiseach that we on this side of the House are very encouraged and hopeful that the talks initiated between the parties in regard to the tragic matter of which the House will be aware will be successful. To that end may I ask the Taoiseach to ensure that in such discussions in future it will be well established that he speaks for the entire Government and all the Ministers belonging to the Government so that those on this side of the House will fully understand that they are dealing with the Government and not with just one part or party of that Government?
The Chair is permitting some discreation in the matter although it is not strictly relevant to the Order of Business. I assumed that the Leaders of the various parties in the House were seized of this matter.
Sir, I asked the Taoiseach a question; perhaps I could have a reply.
I appreciate the co-operation of the Leaders of the Opposition parties in our talks yesterday. We will continue to endeavour to find some resolution to this very distressing case.
What about the point I raised about whether the Taoiseach is speaking for the entire Government?
Order, I am calling on Deputy De Rossa.
The Taoiseach is the Taoiseach.
A Cheann Comhairle——
I am sorry, Deputy, I will call you again if necessary, but I have called another Deputy now.
I am sure the Taoiseach will take cognisance of the points we all raised about the urgency of the matter referred to and will report back to us as quickly as possible.
May I put two questions to the Taoiseach, one which I raised yesterday and about which there appeared to be some confusion, that is, the promise given in the Programme for Government to introduce an amendment of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill to bring our law into line with the judgment of the European Court on Human Rights concerning the 1861 Offences Against the Persons Act which relates specifically to homosexuality.
In response to the Deputy may I say "yes", it is included in the Programme for Government. Work is commencing on its preparation.
By way of clarification, arising from the confusion that arose on the Order of Business yesterday, would the Taoiseach say whether the programme for Government agreed between the two Government parties constitutes a promise of a legislative programme for this House so that we can address the specific commitments given in that programme?
The former Taoiseach said it did and I will abide by that.
Something definite.
I want to repeat the question I put to the Taoiseach a moment ago, that was that in the discussions he has initiated with the other parties in this House, which I welcome, can we take it he is speaking as Taoiseach for all the Government and the Government parties, or is he speaking merely as Leader of one of the Government parties? It is important to know that.
We ought to avoid repetition at this stage.
(Interruptions.)
Come on, Albert, make up your mind.
The Progressive Democrats want it every way.
Can a shaft of light be thrown on the matter?
May I ask the Taoiseach——
I see Deputy McCartan offering.
May I ask the Taoiseach——
I cannot persuade any Member of this House to speak if he or she does not want to.
A Cheann Comhairle, I think you are not being fair to the Taoiseach. He should be allowed to reply to that question I posed in his interests and in the interests of what is a very serious matter, because we want these talks to proceed but we must understand the basis on which they take place. The Taoiseach certainly indicated a willingness to clarify that matter when I met him yesterday.
If the Taoiseach wishes to intervence it is his prerogative.
May I invite him to intervene and answer my question?
The Taoiseach always speaks for the Government.
As the Taoiseach has clarified yet again that the Programme for Government is the legislative programme, would he say what stage the Court and Court Officers Bill has reached and when we may expect the long promised Civil Legal Aid Bill to give a statutory basis to our legal aid services?
The Civil Legal Aid Bill is being prepared. I will communicate with the Deputy with regard to the other point he raised.
Now that the Taoiseach has met party leaders would he say whether he will issue an invitation to the Council for the Status of Women to meet him? Furthermore, would he consider it necessary now for party leaders on this side of the House to meet with the other party leader, the leader of the junior party in Government?
I understand that the Minister of State at my Department is having some meetings with various womens' groups. I have no problem in meeting those groups after the Minister of State will have completed his discussions if those womens' groups so desire.
May I ask the Taoiseach——
I am sorry. I am calling Deputy Flaherty, who had offered.
A Cheann Comhairle, may I ask the Taoiseach——
Now, Deputy, please obey the Chair.
Deputies
Oh, oh.
Let us not forget that this is the Order of Business. There is no motion before the House on this subject.
This House will have to deal with issues pertaining to women. Does the Taoiseach not think——
This is the Order of Business. Let us not forget that.
I am aware it is the Order of Business on which Members can raise issues with the Taoiseach and Government.
On specific matters only.
The Taoiseach does not know who is coming in to meet the Minister of State today: he said some women's groups.
This should not lead to argument.
A Cheann Comhairle, I am sorry I have to put this point to the Taoiseach because he seems to be very lacking in basic information about who represents whom in this country
Not in the least.
Deputy Mary Flaherty has been called. If she does not respond immediately I will call some other Deputy.
I put it to the Taoiseach——
Not in the least, dear.
Do not dear me.
Does not the Deputy's political leader speak for her?
I put it to the Taoiseach——
You have made the point, Deputy.
No, the Taoiseach does not understand. The Council for the Status of Women represents all the women in this country. In an important and crucial issue such as this the Taoiseach should meet them before it has percolated through to his Minister of State who in fact——
Deputy Fennell will now have to resume her seat. I called Deputy Flaherty earlier.
On 13 January the Minister for Energy indicated in the House that he was asking the ESB to stop using their billing system for collecting credit for goods. Last night on the "Six-One News" the Minister made a directly contrary claim——
This is clearly a matter which ought not to be raised on the Order of Business.
He has failed to meet the ESB in relation to this matter.
Deputy Flaherty, there are many ways of raising that matter in this House. It is not in order now.
They have all been exhausted and confusion reigns.
I am going on to other business if this is going to be the behaviour in the House.
In regard to the legislative programme, may I ask the Taoiseach when the order, which is necessary to bring into force the Criminal Law (Forenic Evidence) Act, 1990, which allows for the use of genetic fingerprinting in rape and sexual abuse cases, will be placed before the House? The legislation was passed by the House 14 months ago but is not in force and cannot be until the order is placed on the Order Paper.
I will be glad to communicate the information to the Deputy. I think it would be helpful, in advance of the Order of Business, if there was some indication from some of the Deputies regarding the items to be raised so that we would have more information available rather than having to reply on this basis.
The Taoiseach is supposed to know what is happening. The legislation was passed 14 months ago.
I am calling Deputy Garland.
The Taoiseach should brief himself before he comes in here.
Deputy Garland has been called.
I should like to ask the Taoiseach, when he is listening, if he will take steps to bring the Roads Bill to a conclusion? We have had many hours of debate in the House and there are many more urgent matters to be dealt with. According to the schedule on Tuesday, the Roads Bill was due to conclude at 7 p.m. that day. There is nothing in the Order Paper today to indicate that it will conclude today. Can I have some reassurances? We can make progress in the House on much legislation that is needed.
The matter raised by the Deputy is in order.
It is the first item on the Order Paper and one would hope it would conclude this evening.
May I ask the Taoiseach what has happened to the Housing Bill? He will recall that his predecessor promised on about five occasions that the Bill would be circulated before Christmas. He then promised it would be circulated during the Christmas recess and he promised last week that it would be circulated shortly. When will the Housing Bill come before the House?
The text of the Bill is almost finalised and it will then be on its way to Government.
Deputy Allen. There are a number of Deputies offering. I want to facilitate them and I also want to get on to the Order of Business proper.
May I ask the Taoiseach if he is aware of the urgency of this Bill and that there are many thousands of people on housing waiting lists whose expectations——
Deputy Allen has been called.
May I ask the Taoiseach when we will have the necessary regulations under the Air Pollution Act, 1987, which will allow local authorities to monitor incinerators, especially hospital incinerators? They cannot do so at present. A promise was given on 24 January 1988.
I am calling Deputy Nora Owen.
Can I have some assurance that the regulations will be——
Is this promised legislation?
Regulations.
Can the Taoiseach make time available to meet all the elected women in this House to discuss this very difficult issue before coming to any conclusion? We are elected to this House and perhaps he would give us the courtesy of meeting, across party lines, all the women Deputies.
I would be only too delighted to meet the women representatives of all parties in the House, but I would have thought that the party leaders also spoke for them at their meetings. Nevertheless, I do not have any objection to meeting them.
May I ask the Taoiseach whether the proposals announced by the Minister for Health to restructure the health boards will be included in the forthcoming legislation due to come before the House?
I will communicate with the Deputy.
In response to an earlier comment by the Taoiseach, I give him general notice that, as spokesperson on Justice for The Workers' Party, I will be asking questions about his Programme for Government——
A Deputy
They are gone.
——with regard to law reform.
The Workers' Party. Which party?
In respect of that programme may I ask the Minister when the Criminal Law (Insanity) Bill, which is designed to deal with our outdated legislation in this area and on which there have been recent debates, will come before the House? We were told that this Bill would be before the House. Is there any substance to this programme for legal reform that is included in the joint Programme for Government.
This Bill is at an early stage of preparation.
That is not what we were told before.
In relation to item No. 2, the First Interim Report of the Committee of Public Accounts on the Appropriation Accounts, 1990, may I ask the Taoiseach if he will arrange to take a motion next week so that the report on Carysfort can be circulated to Members of the House?
It is a matter for discussion between the Whips as to when it can be agreed.
May I ask the Taoiseach when we will have the proposed changes to the Broadcasting Act which have been promised on several occasions?
I have no doubt the new Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications will be addressing that issue at the earliest opportunity.
I wish to raise the statement by the president of the St. Vincent de Paul Society, who has indicated that he is very concerned about the fact that changes in the billing of appliances on ESB bills will cause serious problems for many people who buy appliances through the ESB and, indeed, that it may drive them into the hands of moneylenders? Can the Minister concerned make a statement to the House about what precisely the position is with regard to his order?
There are many other ways of dealing with the matter, as the Deputy is well aware.
May I raise a matter which perhaps the Taoiseach may wish to consider in relation to dealing with matters raised on the Order of Business here? There was a time in this House that, when matters on specific items of legislation were raised on the Order of Business, the Ministers concerned would reply. It was generally felt at that time that the Ministers would know precisely what they were doing in their Departments and, therefore, could perhaps give more accurate and more up to date information——
That is a matter of Dáil reform and will be before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges quite soon.
—— when we inquired about how legislation was progressing.
That would certainly be a more open way of doing it.
Please, Deputies, the Order of Business is inordinately long this morning. Deputy Farrelly.
May I ask the Minister for the Environment when he intends notifying the local authorities of the road grants?
Grants, that is subject to a question.
The Government have no date?
Shortly.
They will fall into the potholes if the grants are not allocated soon.
The former Minister for the Environment, Deputy O'Hanlon, indicated that the Irish Government had prepared a report for submission to the Rio de Janeiro Conference on the World Environment, but when asked by Opposition Deputies whether time would be provided in this House to debate this matter before the conference he was unable to give any answer. May I ask the Taoiseach if he will arrange for a debate on this very important subject of concern to future generations as well as to the present one?
I will leave that for consideration between the Whips.
I am calling Deputy Boylan for a final question.
May I ask the Minister for Energy if he will clarify the confusion which he has created in relation to the ESB billing system?
I thought the Deputy had something relevant to raise. I am proceeding to item No. 13.
Was it a Government or a Progressive Democrats decision?
Through you, a Cheann Comhairle, may I formally extend a welcome back to the House to the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and Chairman of the Fianna Fáil Party who is the only living survivor of the St. Valentine Day's massacre?
He must have a very thick neck.