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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 Feb 1992

Vol. 416 No. 3

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - New Fishing Licences.

Alan M. Dukes

Question:

9 Mr. Dukes asked the Minister for the Marine if, in relation to the issue of new fishing licences announced on 23 December 1991, he will outline, (a) the total number of applicants for such licences; (b) the total number of applicants based at ports in (1) Donegal (2) Kerry and (3) Cork; (c) the total number of licences issued to applicants based at ports mentioned in (b) above; (d) the number of applicants who already have vessels, in relation to which licences were issued, based at ports in this country before the new licences were issued; (e) the number of successful applicants whose vessels had been detained in 1991 on the grounds that they were then stateless vessels operating in contravention of national and EC regulations, directives and rules and (f) the number of applicants who were (i) assisted by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara in development projects during 1991 and (ii) successful in obtaining licences.

Dinny McGinley

Question:

37 Mr. McGinley asked the Minister for the Marine if he will outline, (a) the total number of applicantions received in his Department for white fish licences; (b) the number of licences granted and their location; (c) the regulations governing this issuing of the licences and (d) the criteria involved in deciding the successful applicants, and if he will make a statement on the matter.

I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 and 37 together.

Before dealing with the various elements of these questions, I would like to stress the importance of the special whitefish boat licensing scheme for the further development of the Irish fishing industry. Prior to its introduction, it had become apparent that we could not hope realistically to catch a significant proportion of our unused whitefish quota allocations off the west and south west coasts, valued at about £10 million annually, unless a number of suitable all-weather whitefish boats, capable of fishing in safety in our deeper offshore waters, could be brought into the fleet. The scheme, which provided for the entry of a maximum of 20 boats, was designed essentially to fill this gap. A key feature of the scheme was a provision for the phasing in over a five year period of the now established licensing priciple of 100 per cent capacity replacement.

The response to the scheme from fishermen was very encouraging and a total of 50 applications was received. The number of applications from counties Donegal, Kerry and Cork was 19, 15 and nine, respectively. The geographical distribution of the remaining applications was County Galway, one; County Clare, one; County Wexford, one; County Dublin, two and County Louth, two. Of the 20 licences approved, four were allocated to County Donegal, ten to County Kerry and six to County Cork.

Eight of the successful applicants had already and acquired boats before licences were granted. Of the boats in question, five had been detained in 1991 for illegal fishing. BIM assistance in relation to development projects was given to two of the successful applicants during 1991.

The legal basis for the issue of the licences is derived from section 222B, inserted by the Fisheries (Amendment) Act, 1983, of the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act, 1959.

The principal criteria used in assessing applications were the following: compliance with the terms of the scheme as regards size of boat etc.; assessment of the area of operation proposed for the vessel, the target species and the fishing methods to be employed; economic viability; economic link with the Irish fishing industry; applicant's record in fishing; adequate infrastructure at the applicant's designated landing port; job creation potential of project and regional balance, where possible, in the distribution of licences.

All the offers of licences made have been taken up and eight boats have already entered the fleet. The success of the scheme in achieving its objectives will be carefully monitored.

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. Can the Minister confirm that of the 19 applicants from County Donegal, four were successful; of the 15 applicants from County Kerry, ten were successful and of the nine applicants from County Cork, six were successful? In view of what he said about regional balance, can the Minister explain why the success rate of County Donegal applicants — less than 25 per cent — was so much less than the success rate of applicants from other counties — approximately 67 per cent in each case?

It was likely that the licences would be taken up by people who were going to fish off the south-west, west and north-west coasts. The criteria were applied across the board — these can only be described as objective criteria — and the allocations were made on the basis of these. Beyond that I could not give details of the individuals involved. Four licences were allocated to County Donegal, ten to County Kerry and six to County Cork. I am aware that other people in County Donegal are very anxious to get licences and that they would make use of them. However, the licences were allocated on the basis of the criteria set out.

The Minister has indicated that eight of the successful applicants had vessels brought in before the licences were granted. Can the Minister say how this squares with the principle of 100 per cent fleet replacement and Community rules? As the Minister said, five of the vessels in question had been arrested as they were stateless vessles. One of these vessels was arrested on three occasions during 1991 while another vessel was arrested only two weeks before the licences were issued. Can the Minister indicate how, if at all, this squares with the requirement for 100 per cent fleet replacement and the proper application of EC rules in the matter?

I do not think the fact that a boat had previously received a penalty would debar it from further participation in the fishing fleet or fishing generally. With regard to the allocation of licences, as the Deputy will be aware these were made by my predecessor on the basis of the criteria set out. People who do not receive a licence will naturally be disappointed. I understand that some applicants may not have been in a position to take up a licence but obviously others were and naturally they were disappointed. This is something about which I would be concerned, and I will look into the matter.

I did not make any reference to these people. I find it significant that the Minister has referred to these people.

I referred to them because I spoke to some of them when I was in County Donegal a few days ago.

I wondered why.

This is why the matter is so fresh in my mind.

I want to bring in Deputy McGinley whose Question No. 37 refers.

First, I should like to congratulate the Minister on his appointment. I should also like to congratulate my constituency colleague, Deputy Gallgher, on his appointment as Minister of State. I am sorry I did not have the opportunity to welcome the Minister to County Donegal last week. Perhaps his office will do me the courtesy of letting me know in advance the next time he intends visiting County Donegal. Any announcements or commitments the Minister has given to the people of County Donegal, whether to Mná na Mara, Killybegs or Burtonport, will be carefully monitored by me.

The Minister said he was not responsible for the allocation of these licences and we know who was responsible. The allocation of the licences incurred significant media comment at home and abroad — it was seen as a bit of a scam. The four licences given to County Donegal were regarded as a fig leaf when compared to the number of licences given to other counties. Will the Minister say if the regulations governing the issuing of licences to County Donegal fishermen preclude them from fishing in area six?

This is a problem for fishermen who are precluded under the regulations from fishing in area six. I am looking into the matter at present. I discovered from talking to some of these people that although they have the licence to go further afield they naturally feel that they should be able to continue to fish in this area. That is a matter I will consider.

I am glad to hear the Minister's commitment on that matter. If people are precluded from fishing in area six, Donegal boat owners and crews will not be located in the county but in other parts of Southern Ireland.

That is part of the regulations as they stand.

Will the Minister confirm, that although the announcement of the allocation of these licences was made on 23 December last, the letters advising applicants that they had received licences were in most cases backdated to 16 December; that in some cases applicants who had brought in boats before the licence scheme was announced received licences dated 13 December of last year, and that those licences were issued without a marine survey on the vessels in question. Could the Minister comment on the propriety of that? Why was backdating of letters involved in this case?

I do not think I have that information on file.

That would not be on file.

It is off the record.

That is the hidden agenda.

I would have to check that information and come back to the Deputy on it.

Perhaps the Minister would come back with the information quickly? I suggest it might be worth his while to ask the Tánaiste about this matter. Would the Minister agree that the jiggery-pokery about the dates indicates that the allocation of licences was made on a purely political basis?

I have outlined very clearly the criteria for the allocation of licences. That is the basis on which they were allocated.

The Minister did not even smile when he said that.

Those who would have received licences would have met those criteria. I will communicate with the Deputy on the other question.

Deputy John Wilson pulled a stroke.

Do the conditions under which these licences are issued permit the making of political representations to the Minister who allocates the licences and, if so, were political representations made in this case by any member of the Government parties?

These are very specific matters worthy of separate questions.

It is a separate question and if the Deputy wants that information he should put down a question on it. It would be quite normal for people who are anxious to receive a licence to make representations but that should not influence the decision in relation to the objective criteria which are set down.

And all the others that are not set down.

In the Minister's reply he omitted a significant area of the west coastline from Kerry to Donegal. Were applications made by County Galway fishermen for those licences? It is significant that ten of the licences went to Kerry and it is also significant that today Senator Tom Fitzgerald held his position as assistant Whip in the Seanad.

There should be no reference to Members of the other House.

I withdraw that remark.

We should proceed to other questions.

One application was made from Galway but it was not successful.

I know that.

Representations were not strong enough.

Deputy Máire Geoghegan-Quinn was out at the time.

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