Vol. 419 No. 7
5 Mr. Crowley asked the Minister for Education if, in the context of the Treaty on European Union, he will give details of the additional emphasis he proposes for (a) the teaching of European languages in primary and post-primary schools and (b) increased vocational education and training; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
35 Mr. Sheehan asked the Minister for Education if, in the context of the Treaty on European Union, he will give details of the additional emphasis he proposes for (a) the teaching of European languages in primary and post-primary schools and (b) increased vocational education and training; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
37 Mr. G. Reynolds asked the Minister for Education if, in the context of the Treaty on European Union, he will give details of the additional emphasis he proposes for (a) the teaching of European languages in primary and post-primary schools and (b) increased vocational education and training; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
42 Mr. Currie asked the Minister for Education if, in the context of the Treaty on European Union, he will give details of the additional emphasis he proposes for (a) the teaching of European languages in primary and post-primary schools and (b) increased vocational education and training; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
72 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Minister for Education if, in the context of the Treaty on European Union, he will give details of the additional emphasis he proposes for (a) the teaching of European languages in primary and post-primary schools and (b) increased vocational education and training; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
75 Mr. S. Barrett asked the Minister for Education if, in the context of the Treaty on European Union, he will give details of the additional emphasis he proposes for (a) the teaching of European languages in primary and post-primary schools and (b) increased vocational education and training; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
87 Mr. G. O'Sullivan asked the Minister for Education if, in the context of the new education article in the Treaty of Maastricht, he will outline the action he proposes to take in 1992 in developing the European dimension in education, particularly through the teaching and dissemination of the languages of the member states; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
88 Mr. O'Brien asked the Minister for Education if, in the context of the Treaty on European Union, he will give details of the additional emphasis he proposes for (a) the teaching of European languages in primary and post-primary schools and (b) increased vocational education and training; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
92 Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Education if, in the context of the Treaty on European Union, he will give details of the additional emphasis he proposes for (a) the teaching of European languages in primary and post-primary schools and (b) increased vocational education and training; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5, 35, 37, 42, 72, 75, 87, 88 and 92 together.
In the introduction to the education Green Paper which I published recently I indicated that Irish education must now educate young people to be European as well as Irish citizens. This will involve the development of an awareness of our European heritage and of the wider political and social framework of which we are now a part.
I also stated that I will give much greater priority to learning European languages, and that special EC support will be sought for this. My emphasis will be on raising European language awareness of pupils in primary schools and on improving the practical use of languages at second level.
As far as vocational education and training is concerned I propose to strengthen the vocational dimension at senior cycle within the framework of a unified leaving certificate by developing a broader base of technical subjects. I also propose to seek support for the extension of the leaving certificate vocational programme and for undergraduate courses in the universities.
I confidently expect to get increased support from the EC for investment in the infrastructure of the education system and for the development of modern continental languages having regard to relevant Articles contained in the Maastricht Treaty.
Will the Minister say when he will publish the Green Paper on Education to which he has alluded three times already in this House? It was the great protective umbrella used by two of his predecessors, Deputies O'Rourke and Davern when it was a case of "Wrap the Green Paper round me boys". Now we are wrapping the introduction to the Green Paper around us. Will the Minister say positively when we will see this Green Paper on Education so that we can ascertain positively the measures about which he speaks? Also, as a matter of courtesy, may I be furnished with a copy of the introduction to the Green Paper on Education which, as far as I know, no Member of this House has yet received from the Minister?
I published the introduction to the Green Paper on Education so that the teachers' conferences would be afforded an opportunity — in a short document — to ascertain the direction in which the Minister and Government were proposing to go. The Green Paper introduction ran to 125 pages, covering all the major subjects but did not give detail. More important than detail, it dealt with the philosophy and direction in which I was proposing to go. To my clear memory, one newspaper, The Irish Times, published the entire document. I am surprised the Deputy missed that. I regret not having forwarded the Deputy a copy. I did come across the Deputy at one or two conferences. I am surprised he did not manage to get his hands on the document that every teacher and everybody else in the country appears to have because I have been inundated by teachers and parents commenting on every aspect of that document. However, I am sure the Deputy can investigate his secretarial support in that regard.
I am determined to have the Green Paper on Education, which will flesh out the principles contained in the introduction, published before the end of May. It is my intention to introduce the White Paper before the end of this year and to proceed with the legislation in the early part of next year. That is the schedule I have set and I will do my best to stick to it.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): It may not be fair to refer to the Minister's introduction to the Green Paper as a leak, but it was a red herring used to distract the teachers at the congress. In view of the fact that German is becoming a very important language in Europe and a number of secondary schools are teaching it at present, does the Minister think that this language should be part of the teacher-training option since these colleges already have excellent French departments? Would the Minister be prepared to allocate funding to enable German departments to be set up in teacher training colleges?
The introduction to the Green Paper sets out the dramatic initiatives to be undertaken in regard to languages. For example, I am in favour of giving 60 per cent of marks for the oral Irish examination and the remaining 40 per cent for the written examination. I am also in favour of awarding 60 per cent of the marks for the oral examinations in all other languages. This is a very dramatic and radical shift to the practical. I look forward during the debates and discussions which will take place over the next six months to finding out the level of support for this idea. I should say that even though we have expended much energy and enormous amounts of money on the teaching of Irish over many generations, unfortunately very few people can speak it fluently. I think the same could be said in regard to continental languages. I will encourage schools to teach German, French, Spanish and other continental languages. I am very interested in hearing the views of all partners in education, including the Deputy's party, on the dramatic shift to awarding 60 per cent of the marks for the oral examination and 40 per cent for the written examination.
Arising from the Minister's reply to Deputy Higgins, may I ask him whether he has approved the final text of the Green Paper and, if not, when he intends to do so?
With regard to the European dimension of education and training, I wish to put it to the Minister that there is a very strong emphasis in European funding on training. One of the criticisms of the Minister's introduction to the Green Paper is that in his educational policy he seems to be following the training emphasis in the context of European funding rather than presenting an educational policy and seeking funding for it.
I have not yet approved the final text of the Green Paper. I have approved certain drafts of it and obviously I will approve the final document in time for it to be published by the end of May.
With regard to the emphasis being placed on educational training, I recently made it clear that I have rejected the recommendation contained in the Culliton report in regard to vocational and academic education. Instead I have opted for a broad, comprehensive and unified leaving certificate which will embrace both academic and vocational training up to and including the leaving certificate stage.
As the Deputy said, the European Community has tailored its funding and now places emphasis on vocational education and training to an enormous extent. We have to be careful in our choice of phraseology because we already carry out in our educational system much of the work regarded by continental countries as vocational education and training. Therefore, the definitions do not overlap neatly. Funding from the European Community is being used and will be used for both vocational and academic education in the period ahead.
There are a number of Deputies offering, some of whom are offering again. I will call the Deputies who have not already addressed the House in the matter provided they are very brief. I call An Teachta McGinley.
Rinne an tAire tagairt in a fhreagra do mhúineadh na Gaeilge agus dúirt sé go bhfuil béim níos mó ar labhairt na teanga sa chóras iar-bhunoideachais ná mar a bhí go dtí seo. An bhfuil aon phleananna ag an Aire chun béim níos mó a chur ar an teanga labhartha sa chóras bun-oideachais ná mar a bhí go dtí seo?
Tá a lán Gaeilge sa chóras bun-oideachais faoi láthair i ngach scoil náisiúnta sa tír. Tá sé molta sa Pháipéar Glas go gcuirfí béim 60 faoin gcéad ar labhairt na Gaeilge agus 40 faoin gcéad ar an nGaeilge scríofa, agus tá súil agam go bhfaighidh an tairiscint sin díospóireacht mhaith san am atá le teacht.
Would the Minister not agree that in the context of European integration and the need for the full involvement of Irish people in Europe we are way behind other European countries in terms of introducing a European language in primary schools? It has been estimated that the capacity of a pupil over the age of five years to absorb a new language is in decline. The European experience indicates that a second language should be taught to children of ten years of age, on the basis that the thought process in the native tongue has been set up and children will be able to absorb a new language. Would the Minister not agree that sufficient teachers in the system have a second European language and that with a little imagination, flair and flexibility——
I asked for brevity.
——a system could be put in place very quickly? In view of the pace at which the Government are moving in relation to educational matters, the next, Inter-governmental Conference to be held in four years' time will have come and gone and we will be no better off.
I share the Deputy's sense of urgency about the matter and I will try to move on it as quickly as I can. I have formally proposed in the introduction to the Green Paper the introduction of continental languages in primary schools. I strongly believe in that concept. I am aware however that there are other views on this matter. For example, same educators believe that learning Irish and English is already a burden on young children and it would be unfair to add another language to the list. I do not share that view. I believe that some exposure to continental languages at primary level is urgently required. Once this debate is concluded I plan to introduce the necessary regulations to ensure that this is done.
May I ask the Minister when the teaching of European languages will be introduced in primary schools? Is he satisfied that the length of the school day can accommodate those classes? According to information available to me, students are already overloaded, so to speak, in the number of subjects they are taught. Does the Minister envisage extending the length of the school day?
Obviously, the practicalities will have to be worked out. If pupils are exposed to a continental language obviously we will have to look at the time devoted to the teaching of other subjects. As I said, I will have to work out the practicalities and how the time should be shared. My children attend primary school — I have met other children in the system also — and I would not be in favour of extending the length of the school day. The Deputy asked when I thought the teaching of continental languages would be introduced in primary schools. I should point out to the Deputy that many schools already have this system in place. I hope that a solid start can be made on the introduction of continental languages in schools next year when the legislation is in place.
The Minister's predecessor repeatedly made the point in this House that she would not agree to the introduction of a modern continental language in primary schools because it was not recommended by the Educational Review Body. As a prerequisite of having the language introduced in primary schools surely it should be a compulsory part of the syllabus in teacher training colleges. Would the Minister give a commitment that it will be placed on the syllabus of these colleges? There must be an organised start to the process and that is the only way of doing so. The Minister's predecessor was defensive because of the decision of the review body, but a review body should not be sacrosanct in these circumstances. The Minister should have the final say and should dictate the trend.
I do not accept the findings of the review body in that regard. Taking account of the debate that will take place over the next few months, I will proceed with the introduction of continental languages to primary schools. Obviously the curriculum for teacher training will have to be amended to take account of that. It may not be necessary to ensure that all teachers are trained in these languages. We may be able to deal with the matter on a specialisation basis, but I have not examined that yet. There are practicalities to making the policy decision of introducing continental languages to primary schools, such as that raised by Deputy Sheehan about the times and that raised by Deputy Deasy about how teachers are trained. I have yet to work out those practicalities, including whether or not we need to train all teachers or just some of them; but additional teacher training will be required in continental languages.
We have dwelt sufficiently long on this question. There are two Deputies offering and I will hear them but they must be very brief.
There is one practicality which, I am sure, the Minister has considered. All of us in this House welcome the suggestion that continental languages will become part of the syllabus at primary level, but one practical problem is that many children are leaving primary school without an adequate competence in English, mathematics and so on. Many children leave primary schools functionally illiterate. How does the Minister propose to reallocate the already inadequate time and resources to deal with these children, or how does he propose to provide additional resources to primary schools to enable a continental language to be taught in these schools?
There are too many people leaving the system, not just at primary level but at every level, who have not reached the required standard in literacy, numeracy and basic skills, and that is a concern. That problem should be tackled by ensuring that there are remedial teachers——
There is a long way to go in that regard.
——and that pupils are assessed — a debate on this matter will ensure in the next few months — as they go through the system so that those who need special attention will receive it. The Deputy is quite right in raising a practical point. There are pupils in the system who have their hands full learning the subjects already available without having to learn more. Special arrangements will have to be made for those pupils, as we already make special arrangements for those who have trouble with the existing syllabus.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): When I asked the Minister about introducing German in the syllabus of the training college I was thinking in terms of teachers having this facility rather than just teaching French. However, the Minister did not answer my question. Has the Minister any intention of introducing German into the training college curriculum and, if so, will he provide the necessary finance because it is important that there be a choice of languages?
I will simply have to consider the content of teacher training. Once we take the decision to proceed with an exposure to languages at primary school level the next difficulty I must consider is how to train teachers to meet that requirement, but we will simply have to find the resources that will be necessary.
