Gerry O'Sullivan
Question:8 Mr. G. O'Sullivan asked the Minister for the Marine if he will outline the progress he has made in seeking EC funding to monitor and protect Irish fishing stocks; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Protection of Fish Stocks.
Bernard J. Durkan
Question:21 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for the Marine if he intends to make further submissions to augment Irish fishery protection facilities in the context of the Common Fisheries Policy Review; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take questions Nos. 8 and 21 together.
Under EC Council Decision 89/631, Community funding of £85 million approximately was made available to member states over the period 1991 to 1995 for the purchase of fisheries surveillance equipment to assist in the monitoring, conservation and protection of fisheries stocks.
We had argued strongly for such a measure to help offset the heavy and disproportionate financial and administrative burden borne by us in the protection of fisheries stocks in Community waters off our coasts.
It is expected that over the period of the programme Community aid to Ireland will be of the order of £18 million. This will contribute to the purchase of fisheries patrol aircraft, sea and land-based transport and communications and data-handling equipment.
I have recently made a case, in the context of the Common Fisheries Policy review, for a Community conribution towards the current costs of surveillance. The Commission are at present examining this proposal. I will, of course, keep the House informed of progress. I can asure the Deputy that I will continue to press, as and when appropriate, for additional moneys to be made available to offset the very considerable cost to Ireland of the fisheries protection service.
I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. Can he give the House any indication of the type of vessels needed to monitor the preservation of our fishing stocks? Also will he say whether that funding will come from the EC also?
This work is undertaken on our behalf by the Navy. In the case of fixed-wing aircraft for fishery surveillance, that is the responsibility of the Department of Defence. The remainder relates to the Department of the Marine programme involving further purchase of equipment for the improvement of detection and information. The main problem is that it is very expensive for us in two ways — first, from the capital point of view, in respect of which the EC have been assisting us, and, second, from the point of view of the current costs, which amount to some £27 million per annum. This is a very expensive and burdensome cost to be met each year. We are seeking some assistance to meet those costs while emphasising that these are our waters and it is our right to patrol them.
Would the Minister say whether in his discussions with the EC, under whatever heading, he has found there is a full appreciation of the enormous, almost impossible, job Ireland has to monitor and maintain proper surveillance of the fishery stocks off our coasts? In addition, would he say whether he will continue to make it clear to the Commission that our take is so small that it deserves consideration? Would he agree that, rather than giving us more money to help us protect fishing stocks for other nations, perhaps we should be allowed take more of our own fish, since there are other agreements obtaining with outside countries under which many member states benefit and from which we do not benefit at all?
In general I would agree with the Deputy. Indeed, I felt so strongly about it that we submitted a very strong paper along those lines in the context of the Common Fisheries Policy review. We pinpointed that the fact we have such a large proportion of EC waters presented us with two problems. One was that within such a large proportion we are allowed catch only a very small proportion of fish and, second, that we have the task of surveillance of that area.
I agree with the Deputy that it is an extremely difficult task. Unless it is undertaken thoroughly it will be very difficult to monitor exactly what is taking place, bearing in mind again that our take out of the whole area is very small. The argument we have been advancing has been that, notwithstanding the fact that this is outside the parameters of the Common Fisheries Policy review, we need quotas for more fish and more ships to catch those quotas. We are restricted in both undertakings in that, particularly off the north west coast, there are deep sea quotas of white fish we cannot catch because we do not have suitable boats. I can assure the Deputy that we are taking a very strong line on that. I believe there is need for a much more comprehensive approach to the whole conservation issue, because if there is not broadly-based conservation involving adequate surveillance the livelihoods of many of the people involved will be placed very much in jeopardy.
Would the Minister agree we have every right to press for consideration such as that outlined by Deputy Blaney and for extra money in that proportionately we have 14.6 per cent of the total EC seabed — 14 times our land base and 13 times more than the EC average? Would the Minister not agree that in attempting to protect and conserve the waters around our coasts we are not doing so merely for ourselves but also on behalf of the European Community generally? Can the Minister say whether we could co-operate with, say, Canada, which country I know has approached us to express their grave concern about the devastation wreaked by illegal fishing in the North Atlantic, comprising part of our waters? Could there be closer co-operation and patrolling by fleets other than ours?
I think there is a separate question on the Canadian issue. We are doing the work on behalf of the Community but we do not want to lose control of the waters. That is the other issue. They are our territorial waters and we want to maintain them. I know it would be very tempting to say these are EC waters and, therefore, the Community should look after then. As I said, they are our territorial waters and we look after them. However, because these waters serve the entire Community we should receive very substantial assistance from the Community not only on the capital side, which we have been receiving, but also on the current side, bearing in mind the proviso that these are our waters and we are not going to give away anything more.
I notice that the Minister neglected in his response to refer to inland fisheries where there are valuable fish stocks. Would the Minister agree that last year inland fisheries contributed approximately £100 million to the Irish economy and approximately £25 million directly to the Exchequer? Would he also agree that the management of the fish stocks in that sector is laughable and almost non-existent? Finally, would he agree that his Department somehow or other forgot to negotiate EC funding for the R&D side of the inland fisheries? Has the Minister made a decision to rectify this anomaly at this stage? Has he submitted an application for funding to the EC to support the miserly budget given to inland fisheries?
That should be adequate, Deputy.
This is a different question.
It is not.
I can get the information for the Deputy if he wishes. I think the figures for tourist related angling was £74 million in 1990 and it is probably more of the order of £90 million for 1991. I should say that they are different estimates but I would be happy to accept a figure of £100 million. Much work has to be done in this area.
I recently asked the fishery boards to put forward specific development plans for the rivers and tributaries in their areas. I found that people are making representations for the rivers in areas without looking at the entire river system. It was pointed out to them that the system comprises the river, its lakes and tributaries and if we are going to develop inland fisheries we have to deal with the system as a package. Regard must also be had to private, public, angling and other interests in the area, the conservation of stocks, etc. The Moy Fisheries Board submitted a report to me about two weeks ago. I told them that that was the type of report I wanted but that I wanted it to be quantified. Hopefully this will be done by the end of the summer so that it can be put into action. If we do not get that type of quantification we cannot even begin to do the sort of things required.
May I ask a final supplementary?
Deputy Bernard Durkan was anxious to intervene.
In relation to Question No. 21, may I ask the Minister the progress which has been made in eliminating the repeated intrusions into our fishery zones by ships or trawlers which have had their names changed or by the masters of trawlers who now own different vessels and who are perhaps flying under different flags?
I do not know if the Deputy was here earlier but there was a question on the intrusion by Spanish vessels in particular. This is a very serious issue. I recently took action to have a group established at EC level to deal with this issue. An undertaking has been given that they will have a formal meeting in September.