Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 10 Jun 1992

Vol. 421 No. 1

Ceisteanna-Questions. Oral Answers. - Unemployment Assistance Applicants.

Proinsias De Rossa

Question:

12 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Minister for Social Welfare if his attention has been drawn to the difficulties being experienced by applicants for unemployment assistance in the way the means test is calculated and the fact that his Department have never published a detailed outline of the way these means tests operate; and if in the public interest he will agree to publish without delay a pamphlet or explanatory leaflet on the way the means test operates for all means tested schemes.

Mr. McCreevy

I am very conscious of the need to ensure that detailed information in relation to all aspects of social welfare entitlements is widely and easily available. Much progress has been made by my Department in this regard over the past few years.

The information leaflets on each of the schemes administered by my Department have been revised. These leaflets contain detailed information in relation to the particular scheme. Those which refer to means-tested payments, including unemployment assistance, provide comprehensive information on the means assessment provisions. In addition to the information leaflets, the comprehensive Guide to Social Welfare Services also explains the means test provisions. A new edition of this guide has been published recently. I have made arrangements for copies of the Guide to Social Welfare Services and the explanatory leaflet on unemployment assistance to be forwarded to the Deputy.

In relation to unemployment assistance specifically, my Department have recently introduced new arrangements for informing claimants of how their means are determined. It is my intention that these arrangements will be extended to all other means cases.

In relation to the general issue of means tests, I am currently examining the feasibility of introducing a single means test for all social assistance payments. Subject to the details being finalised I hope that the necessary measures can be included in a Social Welfare Bill to be introduced later this year.

Mr. Byrne

I thank the Minister for his reply and I look forward to the fulfilment of the promises he has made. Would the Minister agree with the International Labour Organisation that the welfare system has grown to a vast size in a fog of public ignorance and that there is huge difficulty in understanding entitlements and in coming to terms with a most complex array of means tested schemes? We must admit that it is a quagmire, a swamp. We need a simple breakdown of the means testing formula.

Mr. McCreevy

I absolutely agree. On many occasions in this House and outside I have stated that my intention is to have a single means test which will be the foundation stone to the single social assistance payment. One would have to be a genius to understand the conditions and entitlements in the social welfare system. I could envisage a person on "Mastermind" taking the Irish social welfare system as a specialist subject but not getting 100 per cent of answers correct. Nobody in the Department of Social Welfare would be able to list all the schemes and conditions. I have made progress in the past few months regarding a single means test. I have made it a priority to streamline and simplify some of the schemes. I hope to have proposals before the House shortly.

Mr. Bell

I welcome the idea of a single means test. I and other Deputies on both sides have been calling for this for some time but particularly this year. Would the Minister agree that one of the serious anomalies in relation to means testing is the fact that when there is a problem regarding social welfare, recipients have to go from one Department's office to the office of another Department, perhaps at the opposite end of town? That could be rectified if the supplementary welfare allowance were paid in employment exchanges.

Mr. McCreevy

I agree. When speaking at the launch of the Combat Poverty Agency's booklet on schemes of last resort I made comments in that regard. It is nonsensical to traipse around towns such as Drogheda, Naas or Newbridge looking for information. I have outlined some proposals in this regard which are being put into effect. If we had a single means test a person would not have to be assessed in the employment exchange and again by the social welfare officer. It is time wasting and ineffective. With the growth of information technology systems in the Department of Social Welfare it will be possible in the very near future, if a single means test is introduced, to eliminate many of these degrading, time consuming and very expensive procedures.

Mr. Byrne

While I appreciate the Minister has responsibility for the area of social welfare, the question relates to a pamphlet which would cover the whole range of means tests. The number of such tests is in excess of 50, covering social welfare, certain areas of health, education grant schemes and the free legal aid scheme. Would the Minister use his influence at Cabinet to bring together the various Departments who have means tested schemes and push for the publication of a single booklet or pamphlet?

Mr. McCreevy

I agree. I intend to put the Department of Social Welfare in order before I start trying to influence others. I agree there should be a uniform system for all State support systems and new technology should make this relatively easy. Apart from the schemes administered by the Department of Social Welfare there are other schemes administered by health boards and local authorities. We need an integrated system. My Department have the responsibility for the RSI numbers and they are making some progress. I may be able in the not too distant future to put forward a proposal in this regard. I want first to deal with the means testing problems in the Department of Social Welfare. To get a uniform system creates problems. Much work has been done in the past two months and I hope we will be able to think up something in the very near future.