Vol. 421 No. 2
12 Mr. Cotter asked the Minister for Justice the number of occasions during 1992 on which the Fraud Squad have brought in accounting, legal or other assistance to help with investigative work; if he will give details of such assistance and the cost thereof; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
31 Mr. Sheehan asked the Minister for Justice the number of occasions during 1992 on which the Fraud Squad have brought in accounting, legal or other assistance to help with investigative work; if he will give details of such assistance and the cost thereof; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
50 Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Justice the number of occasions during 1992 on which the Fraud Squad have brought in accounting, legal or other assistance to help with investigative work; if he will give details of such assistance and the cost thereof; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
52 Mr. G. Reynolds asked the Minister for Justice the number of occasions during 1992 on which the Fraud Squad have brought in accounting, legal or other assistance to help with investigative work; if he will give details of such assistance and the cost thereof; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 12, 31, 50 and 52 together.
I am informed by the Garda authorities that the Fraud Squad have not found it necessary to bring in outside accounting, legal or other assistance so far this year to help with investigative work. Of course they are, in the normal course, in consultation with the law officers as the need arises.
I have to accuse the Minister of window dressing. In the early part of the year he stressed in this House that the Fraud Squad have now got ample resources to deal with what we call white collar fraud. The public are very much of the opinion that the State is inept in dealing with this.
Questions please, Deputy.
In order to remove public cynicism and let the ordinary man in the street know that he is not the only one suffering from the way the law operates, the Minister must do something. The Minister should give the Commissioner the resources to employ the professional people needed rather than having them at the end of a telephone line. Time after time the State has been caught off side in dealing with sophisticated crime. The Garda do not have the sophisticated response required.
I am sorry Deputy Cotter, I am anxious to facilitate the Deputy to elicit information but it must be by way of supplementary question.
Would the Minister agree to give the Garda the resources to employ these people, to have them available on a regular basis?
I am sorry the Deputy takes this line, he is misreading the situation. I said earlier this year that I would strengthen the Fraud Squad and the complement has been increased from 38 to 45. Some very experienced people have been brought in. The Deputy's question dealt specifically with the use of outside specialists in 1992, but that option has always been available to the Fraud Squad. They can seek assistance from any specialist service if they require it on any investigation. It is often forgotten that the vast majority of the gardaí in the Fraud Squad have completed specialist courses in this area and have completed the criminal investigation, Department CID course and that they attend specialist courses not just here but abroad. One member of the Fraud Squad has an accountancy qualification. The Fraud Squad are well equipped and also have the authority to employ outside professionals if they wish. I am sure the Deputy will have noticed from an announcement in the papers today that I have just set up an advisory committee to make recommendations to me as soon as possible.
I noticed the announcement in the press. The Minister would have been better to have set up a commission to look into the operations of the Garda to try to set some sort of coherent future for the force but he has refused to do that. Our record in this area over the years has been dismal. Everybody can point to cases——
Questions, please.
——where the Fraud Squad have been unable to bring investigations to a conclusion. Indeed, the Minister, I am sure——
I am sorry, Deputy Cotter, I cannot allow you to proceed in what is clearly a speech.
Would the Minister not agree that given our record in this area the Garda should employ expertise and have it available on a regular basis to assist them in these complicated investigations they have to undertake?
I agree that many of these cases are complicated, but the Garda have the expertise and the resources to take on outside specialists if they wish. The new provisions on the admissibility of evidence in the Criminal Evidence Bill will also assist them. We are moving well. We have given them the extra manpower. The advisory committee has been set up and will make recommendations on how to deal with this matter. On the whole question of dishonesty, the Law Reform Commission will be producing their final report. That will enable us to put in place what I have promised in relation to dealing with white collar fraud.
