Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 1 Jul 1992

Vol. 421 No. 9

Ceisteanna (Atógáil)—Questions (Resumed). Oral Answers. - Shannon Stopover.

Eric J. Byrne

Question:

11 Mr. Byrne asked the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications if she recently issued a written or other instruction to members of the board of Aer Lingus not to make any public comments about the Shannon stopover issue; if so, if she will outline the reason for this instruction; if she intends to issue a similar instruction to the members of the boards of other State companies for which her Department has responsibility; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

I have recently been concerned at the manner in which some State bodies under my aegis have been commenting through the media on Government policy in relation to the Shannon stop. As the Deputy will appreciate, decisions on policy are a matter for the Minister concerned or the Government to decide, as appropriate, and the function of the State bodies is to implement such decisions. Furthermore, there are clearly defined channels through which State bodies can make known their views on Government policy.

All the State bodies affected by Government policy on the Shannon stop have been given the opportunity to make known to me their views on the matter and to make submissions in that regard. Against that background, I wrote recently to the chairmen of Aer Lingus, Aer Rianta and Bord Fáilte asking that there be no public pronouncements by the organisations concerned on the Shannon stop issue and that anything further they wished to add to their submissions on the subject be communicated to me or my officials through the normal channels.

Mr. Byrne

I am very disappointed that the Minister took it upon herself to challenge the boards of Aer Lingus, Aer Rianta and Bord Fáilte. Is the Minister aware of the implications of gagging members, not just of the boards of these companies but of the workforce, and the implications for a group like Signal which comprises mainly of the staff of Aer Rianta? Would the Minister agree that it is unacceptable that workers who have declared an interest in their employment should be threatened with discipline for daring to voice an opinion publicly? Would the Minister further agree that her approach here differs strangely from her approach to the management of An Post who made statements every day which the Minister seemed to be happy with?

An Ceann Comhairle

Brevity, Deputy Byrne, please.

Mr. Byrne

Would the Minister not agree that the issue of the compulsory stopover should be publicly debated by all interests in order that the public— and, by implication, the politicians, can make up their own minds after the debate, particularly in the light of the answer the Minister gave today that she does not have any plans to commission an independent body? Finally, what would the position be——

An Ceann Comhairle

This is tantamount to a speech. The questioning is too long.

Mr. Byrne

Will the Minister tell us the implications in the directive and the consequences of it for the board when they must go public before the Oireachtas Committee on State Sponsored Bodies, for example? Are they to be gagged there also?

An Ceann Comhairle

I have to dissuade Members from putting questions in multiple form. It is neither helpful to the House nor to the Minister concerned.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

I took my decision to write to the chairmen of all three semi-State organisations after great care and consideration. I did so on the basis that it had been represented to me by groups on all sides of the debate that it was most unhelpful, because the matters are so serious and sensitive, that our semi-State bodies should be making public statements on a regular basis on this issue, public statements which were at variance with each other. Aer Rianta, for instance, made several public statements supporting no change in the Shannon stop, while Aer Lingus and Bord Fáilte had made several statements in support of change. In the interests of a debate taking place in a calm atmosphere it is preferable that the three semi-State bodies should make their views known to me and to my officials. There is an open door whenever they want to come and discuss issues with me. It would be more appropriate for the debate to take place in that calm atmosphere rather than by megaphone over the public airwaves. That is the only way in which we can get a resolution of this sensitive issue.

Mr. Byrne

Will the Minister confirm that in her directive she called for the staff members of any of these bodies who voiced an opinion publicly to be disciplined? Did the Minister call for the disciplining of workers who voice an opinion?

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

In my letter dated 26 May I said that I wanted to emphasise that not only did these instructions which the Deputy talks about still stand but that I expect any of their employees who contravened them to be disciplined by the boards. I said that on the basis that the only way to get a resolution to this issue is in the context of a calm debate taking place between all of the lobbies concerned, including the semi-State organisations. It was not helpful that three large semi-State organisations——

Mr. Farrelly

That is as bad as the telephone call by the Tánaiste.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

——should be taking differing views in relation to this issue, which, in the first instance, is a matter of Government policy.

Mr. Yates

I am shocked at what the Minister has said. It is reminiscent of what would have happened in Eastern Europe. It is wholly unacceptable. Given the frustration of Aer Lingus with the Minister and her Department, does the Minister not think that they have a unique voice on this issue since they carried nine out of every ten passengers into Shannon and also in view of the fact that they have lost £100 million in the last three years on air transport? Given their frustrations, it is only right that they should publicly voice their concern for the future development of aviation policy.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

I hope that Deputy Yates is not indicating that the loss of £100 million by Aer Lingus was made on the transatlantic route, because it was a route on which Aer Lingus made profit consistently over the last number of years. It is unfair to suggest that the losses and financial difficulties of the national airline are caused solely by the Shannon stop issue.

Mr. Yates

In view of the fact that Aer Lingus carried nine out of every ten passengers into Shannon, surely they are in a unique position to give a commentary on this issue.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

I agree. Aer Rianta, as the managers of the airport who have to ensure that they get as much custom as possible through the airport, have an equally unique voice; as do Bord Fáilte, who are responsible for marketing Ireland abroad and getting tourism through Shannon into this country. Because of those three unique voices it is not appropriate that two should publicly support one side of the argument while the other publicly supports another argument.

Mr. Yates

Free speech is an essential part of democracy.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

Semi-State companies are in a unique position in that they can make their views known to Members of the Oireachtas and to the Minister whenever they wish. The open door policy is available to all three semi-State organisations at any time they wish to avail of it. The semi-State bodies lose no time and waste no effort in communicating their views on this issue to me.

Mr. Kemmy

While I understand the Minister's reluctance to commission another report in view of the fact that we already have a plethora of reports, and it would be expensive to commission another report, would the Minister not consider publishing a position paper on this question, given the pros and cons of it? It would bring the debate onto a rational and more objective level and it would obviate the need for people to contribute now, causing much confusion? This would bring the debate to a higher level and would cut out some of the statements being made which are confusing and mischievous.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

The publication of a position paper would not add anything to the debate. I am to meet one of the groups today after Question Time. When I meet all the groups I will clearly put to them all the various options that could be available to the Government in relation to the making of a decision on this matter. All the options will be put to Government and then they will have to make a decision. As I have already said to Deputy Yates, I do not think the setting up of a commission or the commissioning of a separate report to look at the issue would add to what we already know.

Mr. McCormack

I wish to be helpful to both Members and to the Minister. Will the Minister say when she intends to make an announcement on the retention of present status of Shannon Airport?

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

I am very happy to report that Deputy McCormack has always been most helpful to the Minister, even in the constituency——

Mr. Currie

I hope that is reciprocated.

Mr. McCormack

I hope the Minister will stay with us after January.

Mr. Yates

Are you going to dodge this issue and run to Brussels?

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

——but I am not sure that what he is trying to do today could be regarded as helpful to the Minister. I think it is important to realise that he is suggesting that the Minister should announce a particular policy. As I said, I will have to put all the options to the Government and Deputy McCormack is well aware of that because he has spoken to me on this issue on a number of occasions. The decision will then have to be taken.

Mr. McCormack

The sooner the better. We do not want to lose the Minister.

Mr. Currie

We might get someone worse.

Mr. Farrelly

Does the Minister agree that the proposal contained in the letter she sent to the three organisations concerned inhibits the free speech of the individual employees in the State organisations? Would she further agree that people felt they had to speak out because of the Minister's inaction since she took office and in view of the fact she announced within three days of taking office that she would make a decision after visiting Shannon?

Mr. Yates

The Minister has lost her nerve completely.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

I would not accept that I am inhibiting free speech in any way. It is important to realise that all three companies, particularly the two aviation companies, Aer Rianta and Aer Lingus, employ substantial numbers. Aer Rianta employ substantial numbers in both Shannon and Dublin. As both companies have taken opposing views I took this action to create a calm atmosphere in which to discuss the problem. It is very much in the interests of employees of both companies that we have a calm discussion so that everyone can feel happy with the decision that will be taken.

Mr. Farrelly

That has the mark of the Taoiseach all over again, "do it my way or no way".

Mr. Byrne

While it is bad enough that the boards of the three companies should be gagged it is intolerable and unacceptable that the workforce should be gagged. Would the Minister not agree that this shows an insensitivity to workers which she also displayed during the postal dispute? She suggests that any worker in any of three companies who goes public on the Shannon stop-over should be disciplined by management. Would she not agree that neither she nor the company has the power to discipline workers in this way and that this represents a total infringement of the civil rights of workers? If a worker is disciplined as a result of this ministerial directive would the Minister not agree that this would lead to anything but a calm debate.

Mr. Currie

Ministerial Ceausescu.

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

It would have been much easier for me not to send a letter and instead to call in the chairman of each semi-State company and give the directive orally. There would not have been any record of it and I could have denied it at any time in the future. I choose not to go down that road but instead to send a letter to each of the chairmen involved because I felt that was the better way to proceed. I quite honestly believe — but I know Deputy Byrne disagrees — that it is in the interests of all the employees of the three companies, and in particular of the two aviation companies, that the debate should take place in a calm atmosphere. Since the letter was issued to the chairmen we have had that kind of debate and there has been a good deal of interaction between both myself and my Department officials, both State companies and the lobby groups on both sides.

Mr. Farrelly

That is sidestepping.

Mr. Yates

Is the Minister denying all oral instructions?