Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Oct 1992

Vol. 423 No. 1

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders that: (1) No. 1 shall be decided without debate; (2) In the case of the Second Stages of Nos. 2, 3 and 4: (i) The opening speech of the Minister or Minister of State and the speeches of the main spokespersons nominated by Fine Gael, Labour and Democratic Left shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; (ii) The speech of each other Member called on shall not exceed 20 minutes and (iii) The Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply not exceeding 20 minutes.

(3) Private Members' Business which shall be No. 36/Motion No. 39 shall commence at 6 p.m. and the proceedings thereon shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m. tonight and Members shall be called upon to speak as follows: 6.00 p.m.-6.30 p.m. — Fine Gael; 6.30 p.m.-7 p.m. — Government; 7 p.m.-7.30 p.m. — Labour; 7.30 p.m.-8 p.m. — Government; 8 p.m.-8.15 — Democratic Left; 8.15 p.m.-8.30 p.m. — Fine Gael.

(4) The sitting shall not be suspended at 1.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal that No. 1 be decided without debate satisfactory? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with the Second Stages of Nos. 2, 3 and 4 satisfactory?

Mr. J. Bruton

They are satisfactory. My only concern relates to the provision for the speeches of other Members. I hope the Chair will ensure reasonable proportionality between the parties in the way in which Members will be called to speak so that all Members will be treated equally in terms of access to the debate.

An Ceann Comhairle

I take it that the proposals are satisfactory and agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with Private Members' Business this evening satisfactory? Agreed. Is it agreed that the sitting shall not be suspended at 1.30 p.m. today? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton

In the context of the debate taking place tomorrow on the economic situation and in the light of the relentless growth in unemployment, the 3 per cent increase in mortgage interest rates and the fact that our social system contains little incentive for people to create jobs and little incentive for some people to take them up, can I have an assurance that the Government will introduce comprehensive legislation at an early date to remove the barriers to the creation of jobs in our economy so that this can become a genuinely fully employed economy within a reasonable timeframe?

The Taoiseach

I look forward to the contributions from Deputy Bruton and members of his party tomorrow to produce any new ideas and initiatives they have for consideration in relation to tackling the unemployment problem. The debate should be very helpful in that regard.

Mr. J. Bruton

I should say——

An Ceann Comhairle

I must dissuade Members from embarking on speeches at this stage.

Mr. J. Bruton

My party have produced detailed proposals on the job situation and the Taoiseach is welcome to a copy of them. We will be campaigning on the matter throughout this Dáil session and we will not be distracted by other matters.

An Ceann Comhairle

We will hear that more appropriately tomorrow.

The Taoiseach

Send them to the employment committee.

Mr. Spring

I refer to promised legislation in conjunction with the announcement made last night. Is it the Taoiseach's intention in meeting the Opposition leaders to have meaningful consultations or have the Government made a decision already which cannot be changed?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy should not anticipate what the consultations will be about. Consultations are consultations. That is what they mean and that is what they are intended to mean.

Mr. Spring

Has a final Government decision been made on the text?

The Taoiseach

I will await the views of the party leaders this afternoon on that matter.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Order.

The Taoiseach

That matter can best be dealt with in that manner if people are sincere about it. The finalisation of the Government text will take place later on this week.

Proinsias De Rossa

In relation to the last remark of the Taoiseach, I suggest he is not offering very much time to the parties in Opposition to consider whatever proposals he has if he expects to finalise Government decisions by the end of this week. That is an aspect we might deal with when we meet him later today. I want to raise a specific matter relating to proposed legislation. Does the Taoiseach intend to issue a programme of legislation for this session? Will he consider in any such programme laying out a timetable for the implementation of the programme? With regard to the second Finance Bill which was promised for the autumn, when is it likely to be before the House?

The Taoiseach

I would point out that a question has been tabled at Question Time in relation to the legislative programme. It is only proper to wait and to answer it on that occasion.

Proinsias De Rossa

The Taoiseach did not answer my question regarding the Finance Bill.

The Taoiseach

It will be with us by early November.

Mr. Quinn

Will the Taoiseach indicate how much time we will have to consider the Finance Bill before it is debated?

The Taoiseach

It is a matter for the Whips.

Mr. Quinn

The Taoiseach is looking for sincere consultation and co-operation. This House is prepared to give it if we are provided with an opportunity to do so. I have asked a fairly simple question and I presume the Taoiseach knows the answer.

The Taoiseach

I do and I presumed the Deputy would have known the answer without even asking. This is a matter which is always dealt with by the Whips and the Deputy can be assured that the Government will be forthcoming regarding consultative time.

Mr. Quinn

This is a disappointing start.

The Taoiseach

For you it is.

Mr. McCartan

In the context of the arrangement for the finances of the country, is it intended to bring forward a supplementary Estimate for the Department of the Environment to deal with the crisis in public housing? Do the Government intend to bring forward a further Estimate to deal with that problem?

An Ceann Comhairle

That can be dealt with more effectively in another way.

Mr. McCartan

It relates to Government business and what is to be dealt with in this session.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does it relate to a specific proposal in respect of legislation promised in this House?

Mr. McCartan

It is about how Government time will be utilised. I respectfully suggest that it is in order to inquire of the Taoiseach whether it is intended to bring forward Estimates in particular areas.

An Ceann Comhairle

I deem it not in order now. There are other ways of dealing with the matter. I suggest, perhaps, a specific question.

Mr. Dukes

Let them build a few houses for a change.

Mr. R. Bruton

In respect of the employment subsidy announced yesterday, will the Taoiseach indicate whether there will be legislative underpinning for that subsidy? Will the House have an opportunity to see the details of this scheme, which on the face of it seems extraordinarily complex and difficult for industry to follow.

An Ceann Comhairle

I should prefer if the Deputy could advert to legislation.

Mr. R. Bruton

It is a nonsense since the Government have announced in copious statements——

An Ceann Comhairle

There are many other ways of raising the matter.

Mr. M. Higgins

In relation to forthcoming legislation, will the legislation promised to the European Court on Human Rights, arising from the Norris case, be introduced in this session, and when?

The Taoiseach

It is not expected it will be introduced in this session.

Mr. Rabbitte

In view of the reports about the irretrievable breakdown in the relationship between the two Government parties, when is it likely the Book of Estimates will be published and, specifically, when provisions will be made for the construction of the Tallaght Regional Hospital?

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us have regard to what is or is not in order at this time.

Mr. Rabbitte

When will the Book of Estimates be published? Will it be before the election?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am calling Deputy Byrne.

Mr. Rabbitte

I did not get an answer to my question.

Mr. Byrne

The Minister for Health announced in September 1991 the reorganisation of the health services in the greater Dublin area which will involve the abolition of the Eastern Health Board. Can the Taoiseach indicate when the necessary legislation to establish a new Dublin health authority will be brought to the House?

An Ceann Comhairle

Is this legislation promised?

The Taoiseach

The consultations have not yet been completed. When they are, the necessary legislation will be brought forward.

Mr. J. Higgins

Can I have an assurance from the Taoiseach that we will have an early debate on the Green Paper on Education?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy can rest assured that his request will be complied with at the earliest opportunity.

Mr. Gilmore

In view of the Government's statement that we are to have a referendum on divorce next year, when will the legislation promised in the White Paper on Marriage Breakdown, specifically the Family Home Bill and the Family Law Bill, be circulated to the Members of the House?

The Taoiseach

I expect that before the end of this session we will see the publication of some of the matters referred to.

Mr. Deenihan

When will the promised Juvenile Justice Bill be introduced to the House?

The Taoiseach

It is still at a very early stage of preparation.

Mr. Sherlock

When the Nursing Home Bill was passed by the Dáil it contained a provision to introduce regulations to be put before the House, to enable us to pay a subvention to private nursing homes. Nothing has happened since then. When is it intended to introduce these regulations so that subventions will be paid in respect of patients in private nursing homes?

An Ceann Comhairle

I would prefer if the Deputy would deal with regulations in another way.

Mr. Harte

Has the Taoiseach considered putting before the people a new constitution in view of the fact that our present Constitution will have to be amended so many times in the not too distant future? Have the Government given serious consideration to consulting the Opposition parties to prepare a totally new Constitution?

An Ceann Comhairle

I would prefer if notice was given in respect of a matter of that kind. It could perhaps be dealt with more appropriately by way of question or a motion.

Mr. Harte

I acknowledge the Chair's opinion but this is a direct question arising from Government business. I would like a reply from the Taoiseach.

The Taoiseach

There are questions on today's Order Paper on that subject.

Mr. J. Bruton

With regard to the Second Stage of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Bill which is on today's Order Paper, the Taoiseach indicated on 8 July that this legislation would be introduced on 9 July in the form of long and short titles. My understanding is that this Bill has not yet been published. Would the Taoiseach not agree that this legislation is quite urgent in view of the fact that the Government were unable to say in answer to Deputy Richard Bruton whether they would introduce legislation to underpin the expenditure of £50 million. If money on that scale can be spent without the approval of the House, clearly we need to tighten up the law.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have to dissuade Members from making speeches of this kind.

The Taoiseach

The Bill in question is ready for publication.

Mr. J. Bruton

When will it be published, since it was not published during the summer?

The Taoiseach

If the Deputy looked within his own party he might find out why it was not published on 9 July. I hope it will be published before the end of the week.

Mrs. T. Ahearn

When will legislation to provide for maternity leave for adoptive mothers be introduced into the House? It was promised last January.

The Taoiseach

It is being prepared, but it is at an early stage of preparation.

Mrs. Owen

Is the Taoiseach aware of the hardship being caused to Irish residents on UK pensions because of the devaluation of sterling and is there anything the Taoiseach can do immediately to alleviate the suffering being caused?

An Ceann Comhairle

We are deviating from the Order of Business. I propose to deal with the Order of Business proper.

Mrs. Owen

It is a very urgent matter. Perhaps the Taoiseach would answer it?

Mr. Flanagan

Having regard to the fact that consensus and consultation with party leaders seemed to be the fanfare of the new session, has the Taoiseach any plans to meet the leaders of the Opposition parties on the appointment of a new EC Commissioner?

An Ceann Comhairle

I thought the Deputy had a serious question to raise.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. J. Bruton

All I will say to the Taoiseach is, if he is not careful he will not be making the appointment.

(Interruptions.)

Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn

You are on the list.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am proceeding to the next item.