Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 28 Oct 1992

Vol. 424 No. 5

Electoral (No. 2) Bill, 1991 [ Seanad ]: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time".

Mr. Kenny

This is important consolidating legislation, bringing together a number of electoral Acts and regulations that have been in operation for a number of years. It may be prophetic that this Bill is reaching the end of Second Stage at a time when the climate is such that it may have to be put into effect.

I listened with interest to the other contributions about the general and practical measures that have been in operation over a number of elections. The advent of computers in local authorities has resulted in a more legible register of electors being available and each polling station now has the register pertaining to it. The Bill contains a recommendation for supplementary amendments to the register so that those who are unfortunately left off the register will have the opportunity to have their names included. In that context it is important that we consider the introduction of a broadly based civics programme in our schools.

A great number of young people who are entitled to vote and whose names appear on the register of electors do not bother to do so. This may be because of a lack of interest in the political system, in the candidates or because of a lack of understanding of what the political system is about. It might be appropriate that we should look at this question again. There may be inherent difficulties from the point of view of the teaching staff and their unions as to the content of such a programme. However, it is an important matter because at election after election young people pass the polling stations while their more elderly counterparts go in to vote.

We must also face the problem of single seat constituencies. On numerous occasions I have had to travel with my ministerial colleagues to various functions prior to elections. Some of these functions were 50 or 60 miles apart. I can recall on one occasion attending a public meeting about the development of a pier on the west coast in Belmullet and subsequently travelling some 80 miles eastwards to another political function in Ballinrobe on the same night. That meant that as an Opposition Deputy I had to follow two State cars across the constituency. This makes a mockery of the ability of legislators to do the job they are supposed to do. There is certainly merit in looking again at the question of single seat constituencies in the context of proportional representation.

Everybody concerned agrees on the banning of advertising outside polling stations. The electorate are made sufficiently aware through local radio, the national media and so on of what the parties are offering and who the candidates are. I agree with the proposal to abolish advertising by political parties and independent candidates in the immediate area of polling stations. Whether it can be controlled to within 50 metres is another matter. Many rural and urban polling stations are situated at the end of long and narrow entrances which may be in excess of 50 metres. The concept of banning advertising within 50 metres of a polling station should be extended to a total ban. With the streamlining of effort over the past number of years most political parties and politicians would favour the use of major hoarding advertising in strategic locations throughout the constituencies to get their message across.

With the change in polling stations it is necessary that there be a clear indication to the public of the location of the new polling stations. These are sometimes changed at short notice and people who may be new to an area may not know where they are. They should be indicated on the polling cards sent to voters because invariably would-be voters have to approach public representatives or their agents on election day to find out where the polling stations are. There should be some way of indicating clearly to people, in particular those in urban areas, where their polling station is.

There has been some discussion about the reduction in the number of polling stations. This can have a serious effect, particularly in rural areas, because of the drop in the number of people generally due to emigration and so on. If polling stations are reduced in number people might have to travel a considerable distance to cast their vote. In those circumstances the elderly or infirm might not be inclined to travel. I recognise the need to centralise polling stations to an extent but this should be tempered with reason. Anybody who has the right to vote should not have to travel an excessive distance to do so. The abolition of small polling stations in the west, for example, might mean the elderly people would have to travel up to 15 miles to cast their vote and their inclination would be not to do so, depending on the time of the election and the weather obtaining on the day.

The removal of agents and party activists from the vicinity of polling stations is to be welcomed. This is a major social change for many of the more experienced party activists. It will have the beneficial effect of doing away with the near intimidation of voters at election time. I recall last year travelling through a small town in the west during local elections and seeing a Member of the Oireachtas — I will not say from which House — on seeing an elderly lady with her shopping, sprinting after her like Carl Lewis and enveloping this poor lady in a bear hug to attract her vote, whereupon she dropped half her shopping. The over enthusiasm of party activists and the emotional state of contestants can lead to intimidation of voters at election time.

One has to understand that practically every person whose name appears on the register of electors will cast their vote in the way they had originally intended and will not be swayed by appearances, posters, literature, name calling or hint dropping on the way in to a polling station, although it may have a minor effect in terms of the other choices to be made. That is why I support the proposal that crowds of party activists should not be active in the vicinity of polling stations.

I am not sure how this will operate in practice. It may be that the next election will be fought under the existing system and that this Bill may not have completed Committee Stage when we are forced to go to the country again. If that proves to be the case, another Government may have to implement it.

Having said that, a case can be made for State funding of political parties. This should only be given where parties can prove that their financial affairs are in order and that such State funds would be used for the benefit of their party, be it for research or organisational activities. Members of both Houses put an incredible amount of time and effort into raising finance at local and regional level weekly. Members are elected to this House to do a job and to reflect the opinions of the people who elected them but very often they are forced to operate as part-time ticket sellers and fund raisers which ultimately leads to people being turned off when it comes to politics.

The question of State funding, based on certain criteria and conditions, should be examined. During the past number of years the major political parties in the face of financial problems, have streamlined their procedures in relation to the money they spend at election time because as I said previously, the electoral process has become very expensive.

This legislation is important in the sense that it consolidates previous legislation and regulations in one Bill. It makes an attempt to modernise the electoral process. Given that the electorate are astute and aware politically, the Bill also attempts to remove old habits and traditions which have no relevance in the nineties. For this reason the Bill should be welcomed. When it is implemented, amendments may have to be introduced because we may not have foreseen some of the practical difficulties. Some of these difficulties will be teased out on Committee Stage but one can never predict with certainty what effect general legislation will have. This legislation, which attempts to streamline and modernise the electoral process will affect every Member of this House.

Other countries introduced a system of electronic voting. However, it has always been a feature of the electoral process in this country that the tally men appear from nowhere on the day of the count and make an accurate prediction, in some cases before the computers have started to work. I suppose in time that this tradition will die out.

Be that as it may, it is very important that we consider introducing a broadly based civics programme in our schools to highlight the importance of people casting their votes. Every effort should be made to ensure that those who are eligible to vote are included on the register of electors and are encouraged to cast their vote. They should have freedom of choice and be allowed to enter and leave polling stations without being harassed or intimidated by individuals or party activists. I welcome the Bill.

Mr. Boylan

I welcome this opportunity to contribute to this Bill. Indeed, it is appropriate in light of what is happening in the country that we should have a discussion on our electoral process. In that context the Bill is very important.

Since the foundation of the State the political system has worked well in that people have been given an opportunity to make their decisions. It is true to say that people get the Government they deserve. Therefore people should not complain when a bad Government are elected, such as the 1977 Government which brought the country to its knees. People complained that because they had a Government that had a large majority they ran amok.

People are cynical about politicians and I cannot blame them having regard to the accusations which have been made in another place in this city during the past couple of days. This type of behaviour does nothing to enhance the reputations of politicians. I am very annoyed because we are all tarred with the same brush; this is unfair. I have no doubt that 95 per cent of Members elected to this House are honest, diligent and hard working and have their own points of view and it is not good enough that others can make wild accusations about their colleagues regardless of whether they can be substantiated. People should do the honourable thing, and if the accusations can be substantiated, they should resign to show the electorate——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will agree that there ought to be no reference to the proceedings in another place.

Mr. Boylan

Indeed, but this forms part of the picture that is being painted of politics. As I said, the political system has worked well and if it has not produced the results we would have liked, the people have no one to blame but themselves. For this reason it was never more important for young people to take a keen interest in the political system. They should become actively involved and inform themselves about the pros and cons of debates. Too many people are not clear when they go to the polling station on what or for whom they are voting. In this regard the media have a major role to play. Even though there may be a slant towards a certain party or policy, people should not take what they say for granted but should make further inquiries. If necessary, they should join a party, preferably the Fine Gael Party, to learn the truth about what is being proposed at any given time.

In relation to the electoral system, polling booths have not been changed during the years. We need to review continuously the location of polling stations. In my rural, widely spread, constituency some people encounter enormous difficulties getting to their polling station. Indeed, it can happen that people may pass a polling station conveniently sited near their home to reach another in their electoral area. That is not correct and is a further argument for revision of the siting of polling stations. For instance, in my town of Cavan one might as well attempt to climb the Alps as reach one polling station. While that polling station serves a purpose there is a case for locating another polling station in the town to facilitate voters on the lower levels.

I am sure that difficulty is not unique to Cavan town. The returning officer should be requested to examine the location of polling stations whenever difficulties are encountered in the course of an election. Indeed, the parties should draw his attention to any difficulties experienced. The location of polling stations should be reviewed with changes implemented where necessary. We should not adhere to the present position simply because it has existed since the foundation of the State and has served us well. We should bear in mind changing patterns of population.

In many areas schools which have been closed are reopened on election day as polling stations. Such buildings are damp, cold and certainly not suitable for this purpose. That is not good enough. If there is not a suitable location for a polling station a caravan, of suitable size, should be put in place. There is no reason people in rural areas should not be afforded the same facilities as their counterparts in urban areas where generally warmer, more comfortable facilities are provided.

I referred to young voters in the course of the debate on the Referendum (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 1992 not being given help in casting their votes. We all decry the fact that young people do not take sufficient interest in politics. What is the point in young people becoming involved in politics — we must remember it is they who have the energy and enthusiasm — if the Government decide to hold an election on an inconvenient day for them, such as the date of the forthcoming referendum, Thursday, 3 December 1992? That day will not be suitable for young people attending third-level educational institutions. Many of them are far removed from their constituencies. Students from my constituency attending colleges in Dublin, Sligo or Drogheda will be unable to return home in time to vote on 3 December 1992.

I appeal to the Minister, and in particular, the Minister of State, Deputy Harney who is present, to change that date to facilitate young voters. They should at least make that gesture. Why not hold the referendum on Friday when such young people return home for the weekend? The bus service taking young people home on Fridays and back to their colleges on Sunday evenings is now a major business. They reach home at 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. on Fridays. If polling took place on a Friday from 9 a.m. to 10 p.m., summer or winter, such young people would be facilitated. During the two hours between their reaching home and the end of polling the party workers would get them to their relevant polling stations.

I would prefer that voting would take place on a Saturday but many reasons have been advanced against that, including the cost involved. While Saturday would be my preference Friday would be a step in the right direction. Young people would perceive that as a gesture to them, affording them an opportunity to vote. If the provisions of this Bill did nothing else but change this nonsense day of Wednesday or Thursday, which suits very few people other than those fortunate to be at home or have a job near home, they will have achieved something.

The funding of political parties has been a major bone of contention. Political parties should be State-funded, and the electorate have had just about enough of collections and subscriptions. On almost every Sunday there is a church gate collection for some organisation or other, the political parties having their traditional Sunday slot. Likewise, the national lottery takes every penny of peoples' ready cash. State funding should be put in place for registered political parties based on their membership in this House. We must make every effort to preserve our democracy of which we are so proud. People may criticise party activists, parties collecting funds and so on, but there is no other means of their generating income apart from church gate collections or fund-raising activities.

It should be remembered also that without such funds a party cannot operate. That is our system of democracy and it should not be denied any registered party. An election should not be postponed because of shortage of funds. The question of the cost of an election should not lead to its postponement. For example, in any good company bad management would not be allowed to continue simply because the company could not afford to sack its managers then its business will collapse. Likewise, the country can collapse if it cannot afford to sack its managers.

It is time the activities of some party activists at polling stations were stamped out because they have gone overboard. I firmly believe that before our electorate go to their respective polling stations they have already made up their minds, that 99 per cent of people are quite definite for whom they will cast their vote. Pushing, pulling, talking in people's ears can have the effect of putting people off and lead to resentment.

I have been in politics since 1974 and I can honestly claim I never canvassed a vote outside a polling station. Yet I have succeeded in being elected, or thereabouts, on each occasion. I would not insult the intelligence of a voter approaching a polling station by asking him or her not to forget me when they go inside. It happens and that is wrong and frustrating. In particular old people do not like that type of canvassing or being pushed around. That is not democracy. People should be left free to travel to their polling stations, walk in dignity and comfort without being hassled by anybody, and cast their vote in accordance with the decision arrived at within the privacy of their homes in discussion with their families. That type of campaigning or canvassing should be barred from the precincts of polling stations.

Within reason election literature should be allowed. Frequently one sees party activists from daylight positioning themselves in prime spots, armed with their literature, denying other parties a prominent place. That jockeying for positions is of no benefit to anybody. That practice never won an election for anybody. If party posters are to be erected or put on display, then the respective parties should be allocated their spaces or positions, with the exception of space for cars for the party machines. That is only right since many people depend on those workers for getting to and from their polling stations. Some people may be unsure where to cast their vote.

The tally men practice is a nonsense, is outdated and has got totally out of hand. We must remember that it is the State that appoints the various personnel within polling stations. In the case of a multi-booth polling station the State should appoint somebody to guide voters. In some polling stations in rural areas there may be anything from one to five booths and people may not know where to cast their votes. It is wrong to have voters arriving at polling stations being approached by party activists, being taken by the arm to the relevant booth, or inquiring of them their number on the register. That is wrong. Of course, in the first place their polling cards should have been issued to them, clearly stating their polling booth. Obviously in many cases they are not issued because I have seen voters arrive at polling stations totally confused, and the party machine purporting to provide them with this great service. We have reached the stage where people park caravans outside polling stations from which they sell tea and soup. It is more like a circus than the serious business of casting votes. The State should ensure that one or two people are present at the entrance to polling stations to assist people to the table at which they should present themselves to collect their polling papers. All the other nonsense should be done away with.

Facilities are not provided at polling stations for the handicapped or the aged. I accept the facility of the special vote, but people are entitled to be present at polling stations to cast their vote and they should be facilitated in doing so. It should be illegal to site polling booths in schools or buildings that are unsuitable for handicapped or aged people. People in wheelchairs and so on should be able to drive to the door of the polling station and assisted, if necessary, in entering the building. These people should have the same right to go into the polling booth to cast their vote as have people with full use of their limbs. That is not the case in many areas where people who are handicapped are discriminated against. They are now being told that they have a special vote and may vote at home. Many people will be quite happy with that but we must at all times ensure that people have the choice of voting at the polling station if they so wish.

I hope that all faith in politicians will not be lost as a result of recriminations in other parts of the city. I look forward to better elections, a better system of Government and a better country as a result of this Bill.

Mr. Finucane

It is fortunate that we are discussing this Bill at this time in view of the developments that are taking place outside the House, as referred to by the previous Deputy. There is uncertainty in terms of the survival of the present Government and one would question whether this Bill will be enacted before the next election. There are many laudable provisions in the Bill. I particularly welcome the measure dealing with the special voters list. The requirement that people produce a medical certificate to prove they were eligible for inclusion in the special voters list was unacceptable. Where a medical condition has prevailed for many years it is only right that the person be automatically regarded as eligible for the special voting facility list. I welcome the deletion of the provision that the person be of sound mind. That was insulting and gave offence to many people.

There appears to be an acceptance in the Bill — although the objective was probably to ensure that candidates do not go forward for election frivolously — in relation to the amount that must be deposited by candidates. There is a perception that politicians are well off and can easily afford £500, as provided in the Bill, but that is not necessarily the case. The increase in the deposit from £100 to £500 is dramatic and is not justified. I hope that this punitive measure will be considered further on Committee Stage.

We have a sophisticated electorate and candidates who go forward for election have a sense of responsibility. There have been very few incidents of abuse in this regard in the past. In the last election a segment of the community who felt offended — I am talking about Army wives — went forward for election, but if the deposit on that occasion was £500 I doubt very much whether these people, who had a laudable grievance at the time, would have had the opportunity of going forward. This measure should be reconsidered because it is unfair and puts extra pressure on politicians at election time. Admittedly these people can retrieve their initial deposit of £500 if they conform to certain conditions during the election and achieve a certain vote on election day, but it is an unnecessary burden on people who are saddled with many expenses during election campaigns.

I welcome the provision relating to the razzamatazz on election day, particularly outside polling stations. Many speakers have referred to the fact that voters are almost accosted on entering polling stations. Unlike the previous Deputy, I have stood outside polling booths at elections down the years. It was felt that if I or my party were not present on polling day we would be the exceptions because all other parties were involved in that activity. I welcome the provision that canvassers be at least 50 metres from the entrance to a polling station. However, an element of excitement is generated on polling day by canvassers standing outside polling stations. In many cases the electorate may not have made up their minds when they attend polling stations and canvassers feel that it is crucial they be present.

I am disappointed with the measure dealing with posters. In rural Ireland posters add to the excitement of an election — I am not sure if the same applies in urban constituencies. In my town of Newcastlewest many banners and posters are put up during election time and as soon as polling is finished they are removed.

I would refer to a matter I raised in the past at the local county council, that is the inclusion of a photograph of a candidate on the ballot paper. I regret that this has never been done, and I do not believe it would be impossible to make such an arrangement. It would be extremely helpful to people who are illiterate in that they could identify candidates on the basis of their photograph. Sometimes these people experience difficulties on election day and spoil their vote as a result. This matter should be seriously considered for the future.

A matter of concern to me relates to a small polling station about seven miles from my home, in a place called Feohanagh. In the last election the people from that region had to travel to another area, perhaps up to seven or eight miles away, to cast their vote. In rural Ireland today people feel they are deprived of many things — in some cases there are closures of creameries and in others, of schools and post offices. People will see this measure as another death-knell for their community. The county registrar should act with caution before closing down local polling stations, subjecting people to inconvenience. In the area of Feohanagh people were very annoyed, and rightly so, at the sudden closure of their nearest polling station.

Another cause of concern to me relates to the accuracy of registers. Politicians who attend polling stations on polling day are approached by many people complaining that their names are not on the register. Perhaps this is due to computer errors but it amazes me that a person who has been on the register for many years suddenly finds his name has been removed. Such errors are a cause of much annoyance to voters. I welcome the provision in the Bill which proposes that a person may have his name included on the register up to 12 days before election day. During the week I received a letter from a woman who was aggrieved because her daughter's name had not been included on the recent register. She rightly asked how I would feel if my name had been omitted from the register.

Many students are upset because they will not have the opportunity to travel home to vote in the forthcoming referenda. This area should be examined and it should not be beyond the bounds of possibility to allow them to have postal votes as many of them would like to vote for people within their own community. Last night a colleague showed me a voting paper which his wife had received to enable her to exercise her franchise in the American election, which can be returned to the American Embassy in Dublin. They go to a lot of trouble to ensure that an American citizen living in this country can vote in the American election and yet many of our students are precluded from voting in our elections. I do not know why elections cannot be held on a Saturday — or even on a Sunday — because many students travel home for the weekends and if they feel strongly about the matter, they should be entitled to vote. It is not right that some parties in an area try to get students who support them home to vote; a postal vote would solve that problem.

I welcome the Bill and some of the proposed changes and hope it will be implemented in the near future. As it is a consolidation Bill, I hope the changes will lead to more meaningful elections in future and make life a little easier for voters. I hope the Minister, on Committee Stage, will consider the reservations expressed by many people in relation to this Bill.

Minister for the Environment (Mr. Smith)

I wish to express my appreciation of the useful and constructive debate. It is an area on which all of us feel competent to comment and I look forward to responding on Committee Stage and to introducing the long overdue reform in many of the areas referred to. Several issues have been touched on and I will try to deal with as many as possible.

A number of speakers referred to the question of votes for emigrants. Representation for emigrants in the Oireachtas raises fundamental questions, including constitutional questions, and of fairness towards emigrants and the resident population. The matter has been thoroughly considered by the Government. The revised Programme for Government indicated that when the 1991 census figures were published, a commission would be established to advise on constituency boundaries. Work on the publication of the detailed population figures necessary for constituency revision is now under way and when the necessary figures are published a commission will then be established.

A general review of our electoral system would require a constitutional amendment and this Bill, therefore, could not deal with that matter. Reducing the minimum age for Dáil membership and giving the right to vote at presidential elections to persons who are not Irish citizens would also require changes in the Constitution. Under existing law Dáil elections could not be held on a Sunday. This Bill will remove the prohibition and it will be possible to consider the matter for future elections. There are advantages and disadvantages associated with Sunday voting and there must be regard to the fact that the minority churches are firmly opposed to it.

The Bill does not deal with funding of political parties or the control of expenditure at elections. Up to 30 years ago, the amount which a candidate would spend at an election was subject to a statutory limit but this control was removed on the recommendation of an all party Oireachtas joint committee which took the view that the control was not necessary, relevant or effective. In considering the financing of political parties it would be necessary to address complex questions, including public funding, and the examination would have to take account of the parliamentary functions as well as the electoral role of political parties.

The Bill, which deals essentially with the technical procedures of Dáil elections, would not be an appropriate vehicle for dealing with such questions. Where two polls are taken together some electors may vote 1, 2 and 3 on one paper and continue their preferences — 4, 5, 6 — on the other. The decision on the validity of a ballot paper is a matter for the returning officer and under section 118 of the Bill he or she has the discretion to accept as valid any mark which, in his or her opinion, clearly indicates a first preference. Further legislation in relation to that point does not seem necessary. It is desirable that the returning officer should, as far as possible, adopt a uniform approach and the matter will be raised with them. However, it has been my experience that returning officers tend to accept as valid any mark which gives a reasonably clear indication of what the voter had in mind.

In regard to the proposed increase in the deposit for candidates, we have probably the most open system of nomination. Any citizen of Ireland, irrespective of place of birth or residence or any connection with the country or constituency, may nominate himself or herself or be nominated by just one elector. There is a need for some restraint on candidates getting involved in elections for reasons other than electoral. A deposit is one way of doing this; other possible measures would be to restrict the right to nominate to, say, registered parties or to require the signatures of a substantial number of electors. The former approach would clearly not be acceptable and the latter would involve verification of large numbers of signatures by the returning officers. In our circumstances this would not be practical given the very limited time available at a Dáil election.

Requiring a deposit is of long standing, is well known and understood and, of course, the deposit is refunded if the candidate attracts a certain minimum support. That minimum is being reduced from one-third to a quarter of the quota. To be effective, the deposit must be fixed at a significant level. In today's values a sum of £100 is hardly significant. I do not know exactly when, but this sum was established in the early twenties. I do not want to get into an argument about its equivalent today, it is not relevant, but if it did not create problems in the twenties and thirties a small increase at this time is unlikely to cause a war in Kildare, Wicklow or anywhere else.

Mr. Dukes

Different times.

Mr. Smith

I repeat that the objective is to deter bogus candidates whose aim may be to disrupt or confuse. There is no intention of putting obstacles in the way of genuine candidates, whether they are candidates of the smaller parties, single issue candidates or those with far out views.

The register of electors will continue to be published each year and will continue to be the main document. The supplement will only be used to add names which should have been included from the start. There must be a cut-off point for applications for inclusion in the supplement to ensure that they are fully checked and that the status of the register proper is not undermined. The proposed closing date will allow applications to be made up to about a week after the dissolution of the Dáil. This has been welcomed on all sides. It is something which many of us thought should have been possible long ago and I am glad that Deputies on all sides welcome this measure.

The supplement is a safety net to catch those eligible electors who should have been included in the first place. It will not cater for persons who reach 18 after the coming into force of the register. An elector who reaches the age of 18 on or before the date of coming into force of the register is eligible for inclusion on that register. The proposal is that in selected areas electors' lists, instead of a full draft register, will be tried out. There will be three lists, the first consisting of the register in force, the second, showing the proposed additions and the third, the proposed deletions. Public representatives will be able to see proposed changes at a glance. The list will replace the draft register, not the final one. The final register will be published each year as a single document, as is the case at present. I am sure most Deputies are familiar with circumstances in which a person's name which had been consistently on a register for, perhaps, 25 to 30 years was removed coming up to election time. Such people find it difficult to understand why their names are removed from the register. We want to devise appropriate ways of ensuring that such errors will not be repeated in the future and we should take whatever steps are necessary to avoid that.

An elector's name may be retained on the register for up to 18 months provided they have a firm intention to return to the address in question within that period. That relates to temporary absence from one's residence.

Section 20 provides for a financial penalty on registration authorities in the event of failure to carry out their duties satisfactorily. The purpose is to impress on all concerned that the Oireachtas is serious in its desire to see a substantial improvement in the standard of the register and that sloppy performance is not acceptable. The Department's publicity campaign in relation to the register will be reviewed in the context of bringing the provisions of the Bill to the notice of the public once the Bill has been enacted.

The field-work for the register cannot commence much earlier than 1 September because of the absence of many households on holidays during July and August. However under the revised timetable all significant work on the register will be completed before Christmas, leaving only the printing of the final document to be done post-Christmas.

Speakers suggested that postal voting should be made available for various categories — emigrants, students, merchant seamen, fishermen, the disabled, people working away from home and so on. An excellent case could be made for such a facility for all sorts of categories. However, experience here and elsewhere has shown that postal voting is particularly open to abuse. The bottom line in regard to postal voting is that it is not possible to extend to the postal voter and their ballot paper the guarantee of secrecy, security and integrity which are provided at the polling station. It is not that the individual voter would abuse the system — the problem is that they could be the victim of abuse. They could be subject to pressure and intimidation. Until a way is found of coping with this, it is unlikely that extended postal voting can be regarded as acceptable. In an ideal world this might be acceptable, but experience shows that we are somewhat away from that ideal world, if we ever reach it.

There are 3,738 persons on the current special voters list. I understand from the Department of Finance that, at the 1989 general election, the total cost of operating the special voting arrangement was £29,000. The period for applying for entry on the list is being extended from one to almost three months.

In regard to the prohibition on canvassing outside polling stations, the limit of 50 metres will be measured from any entrance to the curtilage of a polling station. In general, this will mean 50 metres from any gate leading to the school yard. Whether the distance should be 50 metres or 100 metres or even longer can be examined on Committee Stage. It appears from the balance of opinion here that we should extend the 50 metre limit.

I hope and expect that the spirit as well as the letter of this provision will be complied with and that the practice will cease altogether, not just move down the street. Enforcement will be a matter for the Garda. The penalties for breach of the provision, as well as for other electoral offences, are set out in section 157.

A complete statutory moratorium on canvassing on polling day and possibly on the day before polling day would be extremely difficult to enforce. Progress could best be made on this through agreement between parties and candidates, without a formal statutory base. I think voluntary agreement would also be the best way of regulating display of posters.

It has been said that the inclusion of the photographs of candidates on ballot papers would assist voters unable to read or write or those with impaired vision.

Section 103 of this Bill restates existing law under which electors with difficulty in reading or writing or with impaired vision may be assisted in voting. While the inclusion of photographs could be of limited assistance to some voters, it would give rise to severe practical difficulties for returning officers in the very restricted time available for producing ballot papers at a Dáil election.

Photographs on ballot papers could assist some electors in identifying the candidate they wish to vote for but only, of course, if they already know what the candidate looks like. That is generally not a problem in rural constituencies.

Mr. Dukes

Some candidates have no difficulty.

Mr. Smith

I have never had the opportunity to stand in a constituency where the public were in any doubt as to what the candidates looked like. This may not be the case in all constituencies, but I am sure they are not rural constituencies. Thus, there would be a built-in bias in favour of well known candidates at the expense of lesser known ones, particularly first time and non-aligned candidates.

Mr. Kavanagh

The better looking ones.

Mr. Smith

I do not know if that would be sustainable in all circumstances. From the point of view of principle our electoral system is already criticised for putting undue emphasis on personality rather than on policy. Including photographs would exaggerate this tendency and could have the effect of trivialising elections and turning them into a kind of beauty contest.

Regarding the need to curb the use on ballot papers of names adopted by candidates by deed poll, section 52 repeats existing law which requires the returning officer, in ruling on nominations, to object to the name of a candidate which is not the name by which the candidate is commonly known or is misleading or includes a political reference.

The suggestion that names on ballot papers should be arranged in random order would create great difficulty for voters particularly those with poor eyesight or a low level of reading skills.

The requirement to show the back of the ballot paper to the presiding officer after voting is not a new provision. It has been part of the electoral law since the foundation of the State. The purpose is to ensure that material other than the ballot paper is not put in the ballot box. It seems a sensible precaution which should be retained.

Section 99 provides that a person employed by the returning officer including a presiding officer or poll clerk, may be authorised to vote at a polling station, other than their usual polling station, within the constituency.

A general election involves a separate election in each constituency. It would not be appropriate to authorise an election official to vote in an election for a constituency other than their own.

Responsibility for the recruitment of staff is a matter for the returning officer. However, it has been the practice of successive Minister, to request returning officers to employ, as far as possible, unemployed persons in connection with the election. In this regard, it must be recognised that the efficient conduct of the election is the overriding consideration.

Section 95 requires the returning officer to allow candidates to inspect the list of persons proposed to be appointed as presiding officers or poll clerks. This is related to section 61 which provides that a returning officer shall not employ any person who has been employed by or on behalf of a candidate or who has been promoting the interests of a political party at the election. The right to inspect the list provides an opportunity for such matters to be brought to the notice of the returning officer.

The Bill continues the existing arrangement for free postage for candidates but enables the Minister to alter the arrangements following appropriate consultation and with the approval of both Houses. There is some dissatisfaction at the present arrangements and consultation on possible changes has begun. If agreement emerges involving a change in the present Bill this could be taken on board on Committee Stage.

Points raised concerning the condition of ballot boxes, the location, lighting and access to polling stations etc. will be examined and taken up with returning officers.

Regarding the right of tallymen to attend at the count, tallymen are in fact agents appointed by the candidates to represent them. Under section 60 (2) the number of agents who may be appointed on behalf of any candidate is fixed by the returning officer. He is, however, required to allow each candidate to appoint the same number and give them adequate facilities for overseeing the proceedings.

It was suggested that all orders to be made by the Minister under the Bill should be subject to approval by both Houses. Orders under section 8, which could affect the electorate for Dáil elections, will require such approval. So would an order under section 57 amending the free postage provisions. However, it would not be appropriate to have such a requirement in relation to an order under section 96 fixing the polling day at an election.

In conclusion, I would like to thank Deputies for their positive and constructive approach. Their suggestions have been sensible and helpful and will be considered carefully. I would also like to acknowledge the kindness of Deputies in complimenting the Minister, the Department and the others involved in the preparation of this Bill.

I look forward to the Committee Stage which, presumably will take place next week, so that some of the provisions contained in the Bill can be enacted in good time for the forthcoming referenda and also so that Members will be able to tease out some of the areas in which there is scope for further change.

Question put and agreed to.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Jacob)

When is it proposed to take Committee Stage?

Mr. Smith

Tuesday next, 3 November, subject to the agreement of the Whips.

Mr. Kavanagh

I do not recall the Minister replying to the request that the Committee Stage of the Bill be dealt with by way of a Special Committee such as the Special Committee that dealt with the Roads Bill. The Special Committee on the Roads Bill was very successful and allowed Members a little more latitude in terms of time in dealing with the legislation. This Bill is very big and I assume that quite a number of amendments will be tabled to it, some of which might not be reached if the Committee Stage is pushed through the House under the operation of a guillotine.

Mr. Smith

This will, of course, be a matter for discussion between the respective Whips.

Mr. Kavanagh

But does the Minister agree?

Mr. Smith

I have no problem with the suggestion of Deputy Kavanagh, beyond saying that I have given, as late as yesterday evening, a commitment to the House, subject to all the pros and cons of getting agreement, that the Bill will be enacted in good time for the relevant section to be in operation for the forthcoming referenda. Subject to those considerations I do not mind which approach is taken.

Mr. Dukes

We would be happy to work on that.

Mr. Smith

I am sure the Whips can deal with this matter and I shall discuss it with the Government Whip.

Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 3 November 1992.