Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 10 Feb 1993

Vol. 425 No. 7

Written Answers. - UK Pensions.

Enda Kenny

Question:

146 Mr. E. Kenny asked the Minister for Social Welfare if his attention has been drawn to the acute hardship and difficulties being experienced by pensioners who receive English pensions, who due to the currency difficulties are losing substantial amounts of money on a monthly basis; if he will have arrangements made to subsidise such losses until the financial situation is resolved; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

People in receipt of pensions from the United Kingdom can experience gains or losses in £ Irish terms with changes in the UK/Irish exchange rate. The deterioration in the value of sterling in recent months has meant that the advantage previously enjoyed when the Irish pound was below parity with sterling, has been eroded.

A person in recipt of a UK Retirement Pension may also be entitled, if aged over 66, to an Old Age Non-Contributory Pension from my Department. The UK Pension, would count as means for this purpose converted to Irish pounds by reference to an average exchange rate used by my Department. A UK pensioner who is already in receipt of an Old Age Non-Contributory Pension and whose means have dropped as a result, is entitled to request a review of his or her means assessment.

People in receipt of UK pensions who are experiencing difficulty as a result of their income falling below the appropriate rate of Supplementary Welfare Allowance for their family size, may contact the Community Welfare Officer at their local Health Centre.

The recent 10 per cent devaluation of the Irish punt will also have the effect of significantly increasing the value of pensions payable from the United Kingdom.

Jim Mitchell

Question:

147 Mr. J. Mitchell asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will give details of the liaison arrangements his Department has with the UK Department of Health and Social Security and in particular the arrangements for speeding up responses regarding British National Insurance contribution records of Irish nationals who returned home and are seeking pensions or benefits; the interim arrangement, if any, in place for deciding pension entitlement where the UK authorities require, or take several months, tracing the UK contribution record of the person concerned; when a decision will be made on the application for a retirement pension of a person (details supplied) in Dubln 7; and whether, pending final clarification from the UK authorities, a reduced retirement pension will be granted in this case.

The European Community Regulations on social security prescribe the procedures to be followed by member states in dealing with claims to benefit or pensions made by persons who have worked in more than one member state. It is a principle stated in the Regulations that the member states shall co-operate in processing claims as if they were dealing with a claim under their own legislation.

When a claim for pension is made to my Department it is normal practice to examine entitlement to a pension based solely on the Irish insurance record initially. Where the Irish insurance record is insufficient to secure a pension, entitlement may be established by combining insurance from more than one State (usually the United Kingdom in the case of Irish applicants). Based on the proportion of contributions paid in each State, a pension known as a pro rata pension is awarded by one or — if there are sufficient contributions — each of the States involved (according to the rules applying in each State). Until all the details are available on the number of contributions paid in each State it is impossible to determine accurately entitlement in any of the particular States.

In cases involving aggregation of Irish and UK records for persons who lodge a claim in Ireland, my Department requests the UK Department of Social Security to supply the UK social insurance record. A copy of the person's Irish insurance record is sent to the UK Department at that time to assist in the processing of possible UK entitlement.

My Department has established a very good working relationship with the UK Department of Social Security. The procedures laid down by the EC Regulations are followed when processing claims. However, where problems arise these are quickly addressed at operational level. In addition regular meetings are held between the two Departments to discuss ways of improving bilateral procedures and minimising delays. My Department is satisfied generally with the service provided by the Department of Social Security and with the liaison arrangements currently operating as regards pension entitlements.
Similar liaison arrangements are in place with the UK Department for claims to either Disability and Unemployment Benefit in cases where a person's Irish insurance record is insufficient. Every effort is made to ensure that a prompt reply is made by the UK authorities, including telephone contact if necessary.
Due to the difficulties associated with compiling insurance records, it is understandable that delays will occur in individual cases. In processing pension claims regard must be had to the complete insurance record of the pensioner. It may be difficult to compile this complete record, particularly if the pensioner moved several times between states. Pensioners may not always be able to provide necessary details such as insurance numbers, addresses at which they lived or names of employers.
It is not normally feasible to award an interim contributory pension while awaiting an insurance record from the Department of Social Security. Without the UK record it is not possible to work out the pensioner's correct entitlement. It is also possible that even when the insurance records are combined that no entitlement to pension will be established.
If there is an undue delay in compiling an insurance record the pensioner may be invited to apply for a non-contributory pension as an interim measure. The pensioner also has the option of applying for supplementary welfare allowance.
In the case referred to by the Deputy the person concerned does not have sufficient Irish contributions to qualify her for a retirement pension under domestic legislation. The Department of Social Security were requested on 23 November 1992 to provide details of her UK insurance record. To date they have been unable to confirm her UK record. My Department are aware though that the person concerned was provided with details of her UK record by the UK Department of Social Security in November 1992 but the Benefits Agency of that UK Department are not satisfied that this is her complete record.
Having examined the case, however, my Department are reasonably satisfied that the pensioner's complete UK record may not be substantially different from the details already supplied to her by the UK Department of Social Security. It has been decided, therefore, to award her an Irish pension on apro rata basis. The rate calculated is based on the UK record currently available. If it eventually transpires that she has additional UK contributions which would have the effect of reducing the Irish element of the combined entitlements from both countries she will be obliged to refund to the Department any excess of Irish pension received.
On this basis her weekly pension entitlement is provisionally set at £58.40 and is payable from 26 November 1992. My Department have arranged to issue a pension book to her.
Top
Share