Vol. 426 No. 3
5 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Minister for Enterprise and Employment the plans, if any, he has to tackle the national jobs crisis in view of the fact that the unemployment figures now officially exceed three hundred thousand people; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Under the new apprenticeship system agreed in the Programme for Economic and Social Progress and contained in the Programme for a Partnership Government 1993-97, responsibility for recruitment will rest with employers subject to agreed minimum educational standards being achieved by the potential apprentice.
It is proposed, however, to make special provision for entry to apprenticeships for groups such as women and mature entrants. It is also proposed to make provision for the disabled and the disadvantaged. I understand that the National Apprencticeship Advisory Committee expects to be in a position to submit proposals on this matter to the board of FAS in the near future.
Would the Minister agree that this is by far the most expensive type of training provided by FÁS, costing on average £6,000 per person? Would she agree that it is not acceptable that recruitment to apprenticeships is predominantly by sponsorship, access to which is confined to those on the inside track who know someone in the business? Would she agree that access to apprenticeship, the most expensive area of training, should be open and fair so that the person with the greatest talent gets the place?
Of course I accept what the Deputy said. The issue of egalitarianism is inherent in all policies and that should be the case regarding access. I would not accept that the scenario up to now is as the Deputy outlined. There was need for improvement and the new apprenticeship scheme, which we hope to launch shortly, will embody greater ease of access and other innovative and fruitful measures which will be of help, not just to the apprentices, but to industry in general.
If I were able to demonstrate to the Minister that access to existing apprenticeships is going to persons with good contacts, people in the know, and not to those with the greatest talent would she be willing to open up this procedure? If she looks at the figures she will discover that access to apprenticeships is denied to many people who are not on the inside track.
We will strive towards having a greater number of applicants taken on under the new improved apprenticeship scheme. If the Deputy has a case he wishes to bring to my attention, I will be very glad——
Thousands.
There are not thousands and it does not help the education and training system to indulge in hyperbole on the matter. If the Deputy has a case he wishes to bring to my attention I will be very glad to look at it.
With regard to access for the disabled, would the Minister agree that it is important that the emphasis be placed on gaining access to mainstream activities, and not confine them to a special category? In the past this was not the case. Is it her intention that the emphasis would be on integration of disabled people into the mainstream of work opportunities, apprenticeship courses and so on? Will the Minister outline her proposals in this area?
It is our intention, and the intention of those who have devised the new scheme, particularly the more open access of entry, that disabled entrants will be mainstream ones. I share the Deputy's view that it is not to the good of the entrant who is disabled or to society in general for a disabled person to be put into a separate category. The Minister for Equality and Law Reform is examining the issues of access, the end objective being integration, not segregation.
The Minister is surely aware that the system of apprenticeship that pertained in the past in relation to sponsorship was unjust to people who wished to enter the trade. Is the Minister aware that in many cases when apprentices approach the FÁS training centre for interview they are encouraged to find a sponsor? Is the Minister aware that most of these young people are confused even in relation to the interpretation of what sponsorship means in order to be eligible to gain access to the centre? Is the Minister aware that big multinational companies block off an entire class in a specific skill for their designated appretices thus debarring many genuine applicants from entering into apprenticeships? Will the Minister give an assurance that under the new apprenticeship system the situation that prevailed in the past which was unjust and inequitable will cease?
Will the Deputy please conclude?
In many cases parents, under dubious arangements with employers, were paying the apprentice while attending the centre. Some of them even paid the employer to go for sponsorship.
Deputy Finucane is going on far too long.
Perhaps the Minister will address that.
I accept that there were anomalies and the purpose of the new enhanced scheme is to erase many of them. I will be glad in the future to talk through the details of the new apprenticeship scheme when they are made public. I am very glad to have an embryonic debate on the matter today. Many of the issues raised by Deputies will be addressed in the new scheme.
Can the Minister detail how the new enhanced facility for equality of access will work to the benefit of young women who have been discriminated against the most? Is that a matter for her or for the Minister for Equality and Law Reform?
The apprenticeship scheme, and its dissemination, will be an issue for my Department. The broader issue of equality will be addressed by the Minister for Equality and Law Reform. The Deputy asked how young women entrants will be helped by the new scheme and I should like to tell him that one of the features of the new scheme will be a greater access for women, mature students, the disabled and the disadvantaged. The details of how that will be addressed will be available when the new scheme is announced. In other areas, access will be on standards achieved rather than on a time served basis. That is well known with an integrated on and off the job approach. I am committed to ensuring that more young women gain access and not just in the traditional areas but also that there should be a wider training scheme for women covering additional areas. I give a commitment that there will be greater access for women.
Will the Minister design some system of monitoring access to apprenticeships so that in a year's time when we want to raise this issue again she will be able to demonstrate to us that persons with a disability have an adequate quota and that there is not the kind of discrimination which Deputy Finucane so ably described still persisting in the scheme?
The National Advisory Committee told me that they intend to have rigorous monitoring of the new entrants and how the scheme is operating. I will certainly be glad to come back and talk about the issue again.
