Vol. 427 No. 8
4 Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Education the steps, if any, she will take in 1993 to move towards a reduction in class sizes in primary schools in line with the commitment contained in the Programme for Partnership Government 1993-1997.
231 Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Education the steps, if any, she intends implementing in 1993 to ensure that the maximum class size in primary schools is brought down to 29, the figure mentioned in the Programme for Partnership Government 1993 to 1997; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 and 231 together.
The Programme for Partnership Government provides that the pupil/teacher ratio in primary schools will be reduced to 22 to 1 by September 1996. It is also intended to introduce a scheme so that classes will not be bigger than 29.
It is the intention that this will be achieved by retaining teacher numbers which would otherwise fall in line with falling pupil numbers. It is projected that pupil numbers in primary schools will fall from their present level of 520,000 to 462,000 by 1996. The current number of 20,800 teachers would enable the targeted pupil/teacher ratio to be reached.
Account must, of course, be taken of the fact that the system includes remedial teachers, concessionary posts for schools in disadvantaged areas, teachers in special schools and classes and administrative principals. These teachers are included in reckoning over-all pupil/teacher ratio which is, therefore, not the same thing as class size. To the extent that available teaching resources are directed towards these special needs, a choice has to be made in regard to the speed of progress towards reducing class size.
Last year, all posts available were allocated to reducing class sizes. This year, in line with the Government's priority for the disadvantaged, the 200 posts becoming available as a result of decline in pupil numbers will be targeted for schools in disadvantaged areas, for remedial teachers, for special education and for travellers. This will, inter alia, enable class sizes to be reduced in a number of schools in disadvantaged areas.
As a result of these measures, pupil/teacher ratio, which was reduced effectively to 25 to 1 this year in line with the provisions in the Programme for Partnership Government, will further decline to 24.2 to 1 in the coming school-year. Average class size is at present close to 29. This, of course, is an average and many classes are significantly above or below the average.
Does the Minister accept that the average class size she referred to is a national figure and that the average class size in Dublin is far bigger, that there are classes with in excess of 40 pupils, in some instances with 42 and 43 pupils in classes in disadvantaged areas and that this is causing dreadful problems for teachers and pupils in many Dublin schools? Will the Minister at the very least ensure that no teacher is placed on the transfer panel this year in schools in disadvantaged areas, as one small step towards reducing the pupil/teacher ratio?
I am aware that there are large classes but there are guidelines. The maximum size guidelines at the moment are 39 pupils in a single grade class, 38 pupils in a combined grade class and 35 pupils in a multigrade class. I have visited schools that are under my patronage in the centre city where the class sizes are much smaller than that and because of the disadvantaged status we are supplying more help not only in capitation grants but in teachers' posts being retained in these areas in order to maintain those low figures. We have rural schools where the class sizes are quite small as well.
At the moment we are waiting to distribute the extra 200 posts that will become available. I assure the Deputy that I share his concern for teachers who are doing a magnificant job in disadvantaged or remote rural communities. In the distribution of posts I will ensure that their work will be recognised. Everything will be done to maintain the ratio this year and to move forward in the areas of greater need to improve conditions.
Will the Minister this year officially reduce the guideline figure which currently stands at 38 pupils per class? Does the Minister not accept that the first educational priority in the Programme for a Partnership Government is the commitment to reduce class sizes so that there will be classes comprising no more than 29 pupils by 1996, and yet she has not announced here today any additional resources or personnel to bring that about? All the Minister is doing is maintaining the status quo.
We are having statements from the Deputy.
An extra 200 teaching posts are being retained in the system this year despite the demographic trends. The demographic trends will allow us to facilitate the retention of these posts in order to move towards a reduction of class sizes. In the Department at the moment we are talking to parties interested in education about the guidelines and class numbers. Last year we were allowed use the additional posts which were retained in an overall reduction of class size. I hope that this year we will be able to target those extra teachers for specific areas. The demographic decline is projected to free 2,400 posts by 1996.
Question No. 5, please.
