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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 25 Mar 1993

Vol. 428 No. 3

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Departmental Circulars.

Proinsias De Rossa

Question:

5 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Minister for Social Welfare the reason Members of the Oireachtas are refused copies of circulars issued by his Department to community welfare officers regarding entitlements to supplementary welfare payments, in view of the fact that Members are frequently approached by constituents with queries about entitlements; if he agrees that all such circulars, particularly 14/92 and 18/92 should be made available, especially in view of the commitment given in the Programme for Partnership Government 1993 to 1997 regarding openness and transparency; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

The Deputy will be aware from my speech in the House on Tuesday of my plans to withdraw the circulars mentioned and to replace them with a code of practice for those experiencing difficulty with fuel debts. This code will be worked out in consultation with the health boards and the utility companies and will be published as soon as this process is complete.

I am conscious of the need for good quality information which clearly sets out the circumstances in which entitlement may be established or payments made. I am committed to a policy of continuously improving the information available to both customers of my Department and to those who work in the area of welfare advice.

An advisory group has been established under the chairmanship of my Department with representatives from all health boards. The task of the group is to review all aspects of the operation of the supplementary welfare allowance scheme within health boards with a view to achieving consistency in the operation of the scheme. Draft revised rent and mortgage guidelines are currently being examined by the advisory group and I intend to publish the content of these later in the year.

The group will examine and update all guidelines currently in use in the administration of supplementary welfare allowance with the objective of producing comprehensive guidance on the scheme which will be published in due course.

It is established practice within my Department to treat internal circulars, including circulars on the supplementary welfare allowance scheme, as confidential. Department circulars tend to be technical documents which are written for information of staff who are familiar with the subject material.

I would hazard a guess that there is hardly a Deputy in this House who is not at least as conversant with the supplementary welfare allowance scheme as are the community welfare officers. The implication in the Minister's reply, that we are not fit to read the circulars intelligently, is not taken very kindly by me. I learned to read when I was seven years of age. It is not an adequate answer to say the Department is not prepared to put in the Library of this House circulars which they issue to community welfare officers which directly affect the income of those of my constituents who are living in hardship and need the back-up of the community welfare officers and the supplementary welfare allowance system, which is being denied to them at present, specifically because of circulars 14/92 and 18/92. I should like to ask the Minister a specific question. Circular 14/92 and its alleged clarification circular 18/92 restricted the payment of money to constituents of mine who had problems with ESB bills and corporation rent bills. Circular 18/92 sought to clarify the situation with regard to the ESB—

I want to assist the Deputy but his question is over long. He must be conscious also, as the Chair is, that the time for dealing with priority questions would seem to be exhausted. Let us have regard for brevity.

I have no wish to turn this particular question into a row with you, my row is with the Minister.

The time is exhausted.

It is not my fault that the time is exhausted. I am here all day on this issue of social welfare. I would like to ask a specific question. When will circulars 14/92 and 18/92 be withdrawn? There are people at present who cannot get help from community welfare officers because those circulars are in place. The Minister tells me he is going to issue a review of mortgage and rent guidelines later in the year.

I have given Deputy De Rossa quite a lot of latitude. He is showing no regard at all for brevity.

Will they have to wait until the end of the year until circulars 14/92 and 18/92 are withdrawn, with regard to the ESB?

I have given the Deputy the information he has been seeking for some time.

The Minister has not.

The Deputy tends to go on and on.

That is unfair.

We are preparing a code of conduct which will be ready shortly and we will get copies of it for the Deputy.

I was told that two weeks ago.

While the Minister is doing that the loan sharks are reaping the benefit of the Minister's inaction.

Please, Deputy Allen, it is Deputy De Rossa's prerogative to put supplementary questions at this stage. Again, I must insist on brevity as we are now five minutes beyond the time allocated for priority questions.

I have informed the Deputy that we are bringing in a code of practice for those experiencing difficulty with fuel debts. A specific group of community welfare officers and officials of my Department are currently working on it. It will be ready shortly and it will be made available to everybody. We are providing £12.5 million extra this year for the supplementary welfare allowance scheme. If the Deputy has an individual example of a case where community welfare officers are refusing to use their discretion in relation to genuine needs and brings it to my attention I will pursue it. I can assure the Deputy I have conveyed my views to the health boards in that regard. If some community welfare officers are not working on that basis then I want to know about them.

Speak with the Eastern Health Board.

Deputy De Rossa rose.

The Deputy will have to be very brief.

I am always brief.

The Minister has still not answered my specific question. Can the Minister give me a date on which circulars 14/92 and 18/92 will be withdrawn? Will it be next week, the week after or the following week? I was told two weeks ago it would be shortly. Now I am told again that it will be shortly. What does "shortly" mean to the people out there who are in need of money today? They do not want £12.5 million, they want £30 to pay their ESB bills.

I am going on to other questions if this continues.

The answer to the Deputy's question is the date on which the code of conduct is published.

I have told the Deputy.

That is not adequate, it is not acceptable. The Minister should be ashamed of himself.

Question No. 6, please.

The loan sharks are reaping the benefits because of the Minister's inaction.

We now proceed to other questions.

Nothing is acceptable to the Deputy. He is being totally unreasonable.

(Interruptions.)

Order, please. We now proceed to other questions, No. 6, please.

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