Vol. 429 No. 7
5 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Taoiseach his views on whether the Law Reform Commission has an excessive workload; whether the reporting on the reform of civil law should be its sole function; and if there should be a separate criminal law reform commission.
While the Law Reform Commission has a number of legal topics upon which it is engaged and while there are other aspects of law in its programme upon which it will in due course be making reports, I do not consider that its workload is excessive. To date it has produced a substantial number of reports on different aspects of law, both civil and criminal, which have been of considerable assistance to successive Governments in their consideration of changes in the law and also to the legal profession and to the general public in comprehensively setting out the existing law. I am satisfied that the present arrangements are working well and I do not see any need to introduce legislation setting up an additional body.
First, does the Taoiseach agree that crime is a huge problem in this country? Second, would he agree that a large part of the problem is that our criminal law code is antiquated and that, like most other developed countries, we should have a criminal law reform commission which would help in bringing our criminal law code up to date?
The Deputy will be aware that we now have two separate ministries dealing with the different aspects of law reform. The Law Reform Commission, as presently constituted, adequately fulfils its role and the Attorney General is satisfied that it is sufficiently staffed to carry out its functions.
Deputy M. McDowell rose.
Would the Taoiseach not accept that most other countries nowadays, including the different states in Australia, have separate criminal law reform commissions because of the importance which is put in those countries on dealing with the problems of crime? Would he accept that is not in our interest, if we are serious about tackling crime, to be the exception? In this context can he give further consideration to the genuine constructive proposal I have made, as part of the campaign against crime, that we have a separate criminal law reform commission?
The Deputy put the question earlier.
I am talking about the position in other countries.
Repetition is a luxury we cannot afford at Question Time.
This is a country of 3.5 million people and I do not think we can make valid comparisons with countries that are ten or 20 times our size in the context of how we should do our business. The Government is concerned at the level of crime. The changes we have brought about in the structures of Government should be adequate to deal with the matter.
Is the Taoiseach aware that the Commission on the penal system, chaired by Dr. T. Whitaker, which reported in 1985 dealt with this matter and made a specific recommendation that there should be a criminal law review committee to keep our criminal law up to date? Is the Taoiseach aware that, at the time, that report was accepted in principle without any equivocation? Is the Taoiseach also aware that in general terms our criminal law is the most unreformed and backward of any western European country? Would the Taoiseach agree that the Department of Justice, which has retained the function of criminal law reform, has made very slow, painful and inadequate progress in keeping our criminal law up to date?
The arrangements the Government has put in place separating the criminal law and civil law into two areas with two separate Departments should be adequate to improve a situation which we all accept must be improved. It is a long time since 1985 and it is accepted that nothing has been done, but the changes in the functions of the two Ministers should be adequate to improve the situation.
In view of the Taoiseach's statement that he does not feel there is an excessive workload on the Law Reform Commission, will he explain why proposals are taking so long to implement, particularly in relation to the difficulties being experienced by landowners on the question of public liability which has been with the commission for about nine years?
The Deputy is raising certain specific matters worthy of a separate question.
If there is not an excessive workload, perhaps the Taoiseach could say what difficulty is being experienced?
I am not in a position to comment on the exact technical difficulties. However, I can see that there would be constitutional difficulties in relation to certain aspects. I am not saying that is the total position but it is one aspect of it.
Does the Taoiseach recognise that law has not kept pace with public behaviour? Quite frequently the Garda complain that they are called upon to deal with situations for which there are no offences. Certain behaviour causes havoc in the community but, because the law has not kept pace, the Garda cannot do anything. It is necessary to create new offences to enable the Garda to deal with incidences of public behaviour which are causing havoc to the community. I refer to gatherings of gangs and group behaviour of that kind.
That is quite beyond the scope of this question.
Indeed it is but it highlights the fact that the whole area of our law has not kept pace. Clearly the Garda have not been able to cope and there is a need to put in place the mechanism Deputy O'Keeffe called for.
This will be my final question as the Taoiseach and I have a common interest in another matter that is due to start at 2.45 p.m. We will relieve the Taoiseach of too much pressure today.
What about the Minister for Equality and Law Reform?
I am sorry for the Minister for Equality and Law Reform, but I am afraid that is the penalty for being in office.
Some are more equal than others.
Make sure you do not score an own goal.
Am I to take it that the Taoiseach feels that the problem is at departmental level and that by segregating the criminal law function and leaving it with the Department of Justice and transferring the civil law functions to the Minister for Equality and Law Reform this problem of antiquated legislation will be overcome? If so, how long does the Taoiseach think it will take?
What I am trying to convey is that we had one section of the Department of Justice that dealt with civil law reform and with criminal law.
We have separated these into two distinct areas so that the ministries can concentrate on the different areas. I am convinced that that will bring major improvement in this area.
On a point of order, before the Taoiseach leaves will he ensure that in future when an important event is taking place we might adjourn Question Time until the event is over in order to be fair to the press? It is very unfair to the press to have to sit here when they could be watching the match.
They also serve who only stand and wait.
The Taoiseach did not answer my question. He is taking an unfair advantage.
We have the final whistle on this part of the proceedings.
Be sure you do not get the red card.
Touché.
I am proceeding now to questions nominated for priority to the Minister for Equality and Law Reform. The questions we are about to embark on are priority questions for which 20 minutes only is provided in Standing Orders. Let us try to dispose of the questions within the time limit laid down.
