Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 13 Oct 1993

Vol. 434 No. 5

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Delay in Implementing EC Directive.

Bernard Allen

Question:

2 Mr. Allen asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will make a statement on the situation whereby Dáil Deputies are being refused information by his Department on the amount of payments being made to the legal representatives of recipients of social welfare equality payments, even though that information is being requested on behalf of women who cannot question what payments were made to them by the Department through their solicitors; if he will give details of the amount paid out to date; and the estimated value of claims still outstanding.

John Connor

Question:

16 Mr. Connor asked the Minister for Social Welfare if his attention has been drawn to a claim (details supplied) made to his Department on behalf of over 30 women in County Roscommon who have made a case of unfair treatment under the equality payments in the years 1984 to 1986; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Proinsias De Rossa

Question:

43 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Minister for Social Welfare the reason his Department failed to send a representative to a meeting of the Joint Committee on Women's Rights to discuss his failure to pay arrears of social welfare to thousands of women arising from social welfare equalisation; if he will give the number of cases where legal action has been initiated or threatened against his Department regarding non-payment of alleviation payments to women; the number of cases settled; the average amount paid; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Dr. Woods

I propose to take Questions Nos. 2, 16 and 43 together.

Arising from the delay in implementing EC Directive 79/7, individual court proceedings were initiated by a number of married women seeking retrospective payments in respect of the period of delay, from December 1984 to November 1986. In some cases these proceedings were initiated as far back as 1985. In the absence of implementing measures, settlements were made in eight such cases which were subject to conditions as to confidentiality.

As is normal practice in court proceedings, cheques payable to the individuals concerned on foot of the settlements in question were issued to them via the solicitors authorised by them to act on their behalf in the proceedings. Any agreement made between the individuals concerned and their solicitors is a matter for the parties concerned and is completely outside of the control of my Department.

The Government have provided for equality of treatment in respect of the period of delay in implementing the directive. The necessary provisions are contained in the European Communities (Social Welfare) Regulations, 1992, which came into force in June 1992. Since then some 40 sets of legal proceedings have been initiated, all of which include claims for alleviating payments. The position in relation to the case referred to by Deputy Connor is that my Department has been asked to provide details of certain payments made to the people concerned and this information is being compiled at present.

As already made known these proceedings will be defended by my Department. Ultimately the matter will have to be determined by the courts and in the circumstances it would be inappropriate for me to make any statement in the matter at this time.

Officials of my Department attended a lengthy meeting of the Joint Committee on Women's Rights on Tuesday, 12 October to discuss matters related to the equal treatment provisions of interest to the committee. In view of the legal proceedings currently in train, it was considered inappropriate for officials of the Department to attend an earlier public meeting of the committee.

Mr. Allen

Would the Minister concede that there is approximately £160 million worth of claims before his Department, which he says is sub judice? I am referring to people who have settled with the Department and are unable to establish the level of the settlement either from their solicitor or from the Minister. Would the Minister accept that it was wrong for a public representative to be refused information in relation to specific cases when approaches were made to his Department? This happened not only to Deputy Connor as I was refused information by the Department when I made approaches on a specific case. The information should be supplied. Does the Minister concede that this area is wide open to possible exploitation by legal representatives as people cannot determine the level of settlement from any source?

An Ceann Comhairle

We must have regard to the time factor. Brevity, please.

Dr. Woods

The Deputy will be aware that undertakings in relation to these cases were given in court. The issue goes back to 1985 and the people concerned entered their cases at that time.

Deputy Connor raised a case in his question; proceedings are being considered and the solicitors have asked the Department for certain information which is being compiled. However, on the question of settlements made in court, people chose to settle in court and were bound by the outcome that the solicitors agreed in court. That is now outside our hands.

Mr. Allen

Will the Minister reconsider the position? In one case a woman in Cork received a cheque for £5,748 from her solicitor and she could not establish the level of payment from the Department.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is making a statement rather than asking a question.

Mr. Allen

In the interests of justice will the Minister reconsider the situation because people do not know if they are being exploited by third parties? In the interests of fair play will he make the full facts known? What is he hiding?

Dr. Woods

The Deputy will understand that these settlements were made in court and the people concerned engaged a solicitor to represent them in court. All the information the Department has been asked for in regard to the directives and regulations set down by this House has been made available and all the equal treatment provisions have been set out very clearly. The Department is contesting claims because the sums run into millions of pounds and naturally the Department has to protect the taxpayers' interests. However, provision has been made to cover claims under equal treatment and to cover them retrospectively.

Mr. Allen

The Minister is covering up a serious situation.

An Ceann Comhairle

Question No. 3 is in the name of Deputy O'Donnell. The Deputy is not present so I will proceed to Question No. 4.