Vol. 435 No. 10
9 Mr. Boylan asked the Minister for Education if her attention has been drawn to the fact that remedial teachers living or working outside a radius of 30 miles from Dublin city cannot avail of in-service training available in St. Patrick's Teacher Training College Drumcondra, Dublin 9; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
My Department provides grant aid towards the provision of in-service courses for remedial teachers at six different locations throughout the country. Three of these courses are held in Dublin and one each in Sligo, Cork and Limerick. In all, 172 teacher places are available.
The in-service remedial course in St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra, is one of those grant-aided by my Department. Organisation of the course and selection of participants is arranged by the college authorities.
The college has indicated to my Department that one of the criteria used by them in the selection of applicants for the course is that the applicant's school should be within a 30 mile radius of the college. They have explained that this course involves supervision and continuous assessment of both course work and teaching. With this approach, which includes on-the-job evaluation of each participant in his/her school, regrettably it is not possible to facilitate teachers from outside the 30 mile radius.
Two other remedial courses are organised in Dublin and are specifically designed for, and give preference to, candidates from outside the greater Dublin area. One of these, at the Marino Institute of Education, Griffith Avenue, Dublin 9, is an intensive course conducted during the summer over a two-year period, for two weeks in each year. The second course, at the Church of Ireland College of Education in Rathmines, Dublin 6, is held on Saturday mornings from October to May.
Remedial teachers who cannot be accommodated on the course at St. Patrick's College get favourable consideration for inclusion in the other courses mentioned above on application.
The Department's inspectorate are being asked to review in-service remedial courses in general with a view to streamlining the structure of the courses being provided at the various centres.
I thank the Minister for her detailed reply regarding the content of the course. The course in St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra, is not available to teachers seeking training outside a radius of 30 miles of Dublin. This is grossly unfair. This is a course for which one particular teacher — I am now informed that another teacher made a similar request — applied and was refused. Is this fair to the teacher, and the children whom this teacher is looking after, who saw fit to apply for the course in order to improve his own ability to help these children?
As I explained to the Deputy, there is a choice in the matter. St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra, is geared for inservice and on the job monitoring by the Department. There would be enormous resource implications if we were to extend this course outside the 30 mile radius. There are two other options, one of which is the Saturday morning course in which I participated. I said at the end of my reply that the inspectors would look at the workings of it and take on board the demands of teachers who indicate their willingness to seek extra training so that they will be a specific resource in their schools. Far be it from me to come between somebody's inclination to become a remedial teacher. I have replied in some detail outlining the present position. We are looking at the issue. The administration involved in extending that service to teachers outside the 30 mile radius is quite different. Perhaps this is a matter we could look at when the local education authorities are in place.
As the service operates at present there is a bias in favour of Dublin remedial teachers and the children who can avail of this service in the greater Dublin area. The children in rural areas, and certainly those in my constituency of Cavan-Monaghan, have to put up with a second class standard which is not acceptable to me or to the teacher in question. Far be it from me to question the suitability or otherwise of the other courses mentioned by the Minister. It is on record that the INTO say they are not of the same calibre as the training available in St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra. Does the Minister accept that?
We are in the process of examining the delivery of services and the whole area of inservice training for teachers who have to come to Dublin. Changes in the delivery of services in the Department of Education are afoot. I will certainly take on board the remarks made by the Deputy.
May I ask one final question?
Very good.
I suggest that this course be moved to, say, Cavan as a region for teachers in that general area. Is the Minister aware that the teacher who brought this matter to light offered to pay for any extra expenses that would be incurred outside college training?
It was not only one teacher who brought this matter to my attention. In responding I have to recognise there are problems even outside Cavan-Monaghan in the delivery of remedial teacher training. The time is right to examine the matter in the light of the impending local education authorities.
Deputy Trevor Sargent has been offering for some time.
May I ask two brief questions to give some focus to the review which the Minister mentioned? Would the Minister agree that there is an equal need for remedial education throughout the country and that those needs are not concentrated in Dublin, as the courses tend to suggest? Would she also agree that employment possibilities for teachers living outside the 30 mile radius are diminished because of the lack of opportunity to add to their qualifications?
The Deputy is right in saying that whether a child lives in an urban or a rural area they will have reading problems. I would remind the Deputy that in the past year we have been able to extend the remedial teaching service to rural areas. In the past year 80 teachers were put into the service on a shared basis. In some remote rural schools they now have a visiting teacher one day per week. The fact that more teachers are seeking the remedial qualification is welcome. While I was glad to introduce 80 teachers into the service this year, I continue to meet deputations who want the service extended to their schools. There is a commitment in the Programme for a Partnership Government for the provision of more remedial teachers which I hope to honour. We need to encourage remedial teachers. Regarding the delivery of that inservice training, perhaps it is time a Dublin Minister would recognise that everything does not have to happen in Dublin and that that training can be delivered on a much better and probably financially sounder basis at a regional level. That issue is under active consideration by me at this time.
There are a number of Deputies offering. I will be glad to hear them if they will be brief. Progress has been particularly slow at Question Time today.
Does the Minister not accept that £15 per teacher is paltry in terms of inservice training and that £50 per secondary teacher, of whom there are 20,000, is again paltry? Can the Minister confirm whether the much heralded £39 million for inservice training promised in the National Development Plan will be delivered on once and for all to put in place a proper regional scheme for easy access for all teachers from the regions?
There is general acceptance throughout the teacher unions, the managerial bodies and parents that the funding of inservice training has not been adequate. It certainly features in the application for Structural Funds. I will be able to spell out in greater detail the spending of that money when the full extent of those programmes can be revealed. In regard to a regional delivery of training, I have already said I agree with it. A network of teacher centres is available throughout the country. I have spoken at some length with second level teachers on this matter. I was in Bantry with the chief executive officer and vocational education committee principals last weekend spelling out the money available. If that money is to be well spent it should not be spent on travelling to the course but rather to increase the quality of the course. I am committed to that course. I am satisfied that funding is available and that it will be spent wisely.
In any restructuring of the remedial services available I would ask the Minister to bear in mind the vast imbalances in the regions. For instance, I understand that the national average for those who have recourse to remedial education is 75 per cent to 76 per cent whereas in Donegal the figure is as low as 61 per cent or 62 per cent. Will she bear that in mind when restructuring remedial education services?
I certainly will, and that is why I referred earlier to the ability to provide a teacher one day a week. The statistics show that 78 per cent of all pupils have access to remedial education but when the figures are broken down — usually by Deputy Higgins when the matter is raised — the number of schools where remedial services are provided is nothing like 78 per cent of the total as very small and isolated schools are also included. It is a challenge to me to ensure that the remedial service is extended to all children who need it rather than to specific areas. I am sure there is no difference in the level of need throughout the country and that the same number require remedial help in the Deputy's country as in any other county.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): In an effort to ensure that rural schools are provided with remedial teachers will the Minister ensure that she does not stretch it so far that a great many schools end up having the services of a remedial teacher for one day? While I accept it is better than none, rural schools deserve a fair crack of the whip and a token service is not enough.
In schools where no remedial service has been provided, the provision of remedial teachers for one day is a welcome change. However, I take the Deputy's point. It is the quality of the teaching time for individual pupils that should be measured rather than the hours and the dots or the map in the Minister's office.
As a gesture of goodwill will the Minister examine the case that brought this matter to light in the first place?
It is one of a number that has been brought to my attention. I prefer to respond to the need by looking at the general pattern as it affects everybody in the same situation as the constituent of the Deputy.
There is still a number of Deputies offering. Again I ask for brevity and hope for that response.
I pay tribute to the Minister for the increase this year in the number of teachers who provide this service. We can see the benefits as well as the shortcomings of this service. The demand for the service in urban areas is very great. I pay tribute to the Minister and her predecessor for providing this vital service but I appeal to her to develop and extend it and provide the resources to do so as far too few teachers provide this service.
Does the Minister intend to establish a norm for the ratio of pupils to remedial teachers? In my county of Roscommon the ratio is 2,000 pupils to one remedial teacher, which is way below the norm. Has the Minister a norm in mind and when does she intend to achieve it?
A review of special education needs has just come to my attention. That report will be discussed on 6 December next by all those who made submissions. That report contains suggestions on the delivery of the remedial service. I do not want to pre-empt the outcome of the report as I want to have dialogue with those who made submissions and those involved in the delivery of services on the ground — and the report refers to the large number of children in need of special education.
Rather than establishing any norms and committing myself to something that may not be the answer to dealing with the problem, I will wait until I have dialogue with those who provide the service on the ground. From my own experience I know that some pupils can benefit from one term with a remedial teacher but that others will need remedial teaching throughout their whole school life.
Do we not need more remedial teachers? Surely the Minister has an ambition in that area?
I welcome support for more remedial teachers but it comes down to choices as to how we will spend the budget allocation to the Minister for Education.
Following a recent deputation from that parish of Cloyne, County Cork, to the Minister's officials, is she aware that parents from that parish have been paying for the services of a remedial teacher for the past number of weeks since the teacher who provided that services was forced to leave? Will the Department of Education be in a position to make a decision shortly on the reappointment of a remedial teacher to that position?
The Deputy is raising a very particular matter which is worthy of a separate question.
It is very urgent as the parents are paying for this service on a weekly basis.
