Vol. 438 No. 3
5 Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for Justice if her Department has taken any action arising from the recent TV programmes on BBC2 and Channel 4 relating to the blooding of greyhounds with live rabbits at a prominent greyhound track in County Tipperary and the brutal baiting and killing of badgers near Portlaoise, County Laois; the steps, if any, taken by the Gardaí in respect of the above; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
82 Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Justice if her attention has been drawn to the cruelty of badger baiting shown on a Channel 4 programme of 18 January 1994, which allegedly took place near Portlaoise, County Laois; and, in view of the illegality of these actions, the measures, if any, she has taken to bring the perpetrators to justice.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 and 82 together. Like many people who saw the television programmes referred to by the Deputies. I was disgusted at the scenes of brutality to live animals which were shown in them.
The Garda are responsible for investigating allegations or complaints of acts of cruelty to animals which are prescribed as criminal offences under the Protection of Animals Acts, 1911 and 1965. These include the baiting of animals and cover the use of live animals for "blooding" greyhounds. Badgers are also protected under the Wild Life Act, 1976.
A Garda investigation has commenced into the events shown on the television programmes and the Garda are in possession of the unedited tapes of the programmes. I hope that the investigation will be completed quickly. As the investigation is continuing, it would be inappropriate for me to comment further on the matter at this stage other than to say that, if this investigation uncovers a breach of the law by any person, a file will be prepared and submitted to the Director of Public Prosecutions in the normal manner for his directions.
Will the Minister agree that it is particularly disquieting that the laws of the State are being publicly broken in such a blatant and highly organised manner, in one instance at a prominent training ground and in the other in what must be the most heavily policed part of the State, around Portlaoise? Are the Garda Síochána turning a blind eye to illegal activities which are bringing shame on this country throughout the world? How else can one explain the exposure by foreign television of activities of which the Garda claim to be unaware?
I can assure the Deputy that the Garda are not turning a blind eye to these activities. In regard to the television programmes concerned, the Garda are now satisfied that the evidence contained in the television programmes — the unedited copy of which they possess — provides sufficient grounds for them to initiate a criminal investigation. A formal complaint has been received by the Garda in regard to the incident involving greyhound blooding in Thurles.
Any time a formal complaint is made to the Garda it is investigated fully. In the absence of a formal complaint the Garda do not carry out investigations. It is not correct, nor would I like it to remain on the record, that the Garda are turning a blind eye to the matter. As I said, if a formal complaint is made an investigation is carried out.
A Cheann Comhairle——
I cannot entertain the Deputy at this stage.
The time——
Having deviated from the time factor involved in questions today——
With respect, the clock has——
On a point of order——
The Minister is taking two questions together. Almost 30 minutes have elapsed——
Let us hear Deputy Gregory.
Will the Minister say if those identified as breaking the law would have been brought before the courts by now if this was a security video on the RTE programme "Crimeline"? Why have no charges been brought? Have some of the lawbreakers involved political connections which are protecting them?
I have no evidence which suggests that those involved in the video have political connections to protect them, and I would reject that type of allegation. As I said, once a complaint is made to the Garda an investigation takes place. The Garda have in their possession the unedited copies of the television programme material and are investigating the matter. The Garda are satisfied that the evidence provides sufficient grounds for initiating a criminal investigation. In this case the visual image displayed on the programme constitutes prime facie evidence of an offence having been committed and the Garda have seen it and are investigating it accordingly. That investigation will be carried out as quickly and as thoroughly as possible and whatever action has to be taken by the Garda, prosecution or otherwise, will be taken.
A Cheann Comhairle——
Deputy Mitchell on a point of order.
I was hoping to ask a supplementary.
Admittedly I called Deputy Gregory's question on the borderline of the time limit involved and if Deputy Mitchell and Deputy Flanagan wish to intervene I will facilitate them. Perhaps the Deputies will be brief.
I will. Will the Minister join with me in expressing surprise that in the case of two of the matters raised today by way of Priority Questions, one of which relates to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the other which relates to the blooding of greyhounds——
We are on Priority Question No. 5.
It is extraordinary that both of these questions arose from TV programmes conducted by foreign TV stations. Is there any Government policy which prevents RTE, which has been very quiet in this area, carrying out similar inquiries?
The Deputy is deviating somewhat from the question.
There is no legislation in place which prevents RTE covering these issues. It is a matter for RTE to use its initiative, of which it has plenty, to investigate such allegations if it wants to.
I appreciate the fact that you have allowed me to raise a brief supplementary and therefore I will be brief. I concur with the Minister's reply that the Garda are acting as quickly as possible in the circumstances in the Portlaoise case. It is outrageous for Deputy Gregory to suggest that there may be any political interference in this matter.
My supplementary deals with the fines under the Wildlife Act. I put it to the Minister that erroneous or misleading statements have been coming from the Government in regard to increases by the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy O'Shea, in the fines for cruelty to animals. No change has been made in recent times so far as fines under the Wildlife Act are concerned. Contrary to recent announcements by the Government, the fines for the offence of badger baiting have not been increased.
I understand that the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy O'Shea, recently announced his intention to double the fine for the offence of cruelty to animals — from £500 to £1,000. I understand that this increased fine will be prescribed under the Protection of Animals Acts, 1911 and 1965, as amended by the Control of Dogs Act, 1986. The Minister announced his intention to do this and I presume in order to do it he needs to have an amendment to the Act, which I am sure he would bring before the House, or by regulation which he could also do.
It does not refer to badgers, that is my point.
Briefly, may I ask the Minister if she is satisfied that the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, has raised the fines sufficiently for them to be a deterrent? Also is it an unfortunate coincidence that she is dressed finely today in the manner of many of the fox-hunters when a question with regard to blood sports was tabled?
There is no necessity for the last remark, Deputy.
Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle. I would say my mode of dress is irrelevant to Question Time or, indeed, to what Deputy Sargent may or may not think in relation to it.
The increase in fines is a matter in the first instance for the Minister of State, Deputy O'Shea. It would be a matter for his judgment, having evaluated it within his Department and with relevant parties, to decide what the appropriate fine might be. However, he would be constrained as to whether the type of fines he might increase would be applied in the District Court.
