Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 2 Mar 1994

Vol. 439 No. 6

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - East Timor Human Rights Abuses.

John Connor

Question:

6 Mr. Connor asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs the action, if any, the Government intends to take at European Union and UN levels on the continuing killing and oppression by Indonesia forces in East Timor, which has been facilitated by sales of weapons to them by the United Kingdom, Australian and other Governments; and, in particular, given the European Union's focus on tying its aid to human rights, will he have this conditionality imposed on aid to Indonesia.

Andrew Boylan

Question:

23 Mr. Boylan asked the asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, in view of the recent disclosure of the killing of East Timorese in hospital beds, if he will lead his EU partners in condemnation of the Indonesian Government's action in East Timor; and if he will notify that Government of the revulsion of the Irish people at such abuse of human rights.

Frances Fitzgerald

Question:

31 Ms F. Fitzgerald asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs in view of the recent disclosure of the killing of East Timorese in hospital beds, if he will lead his EU partners in condemnation of the Indonesian Government's action in East Timor; and if he will notify that Government of the revulsion of the Irish people at such abuse of human rights.

Pat Cox

Question:

42 Mr. Cox asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs the proposals, if any, Ireland has made for the remainder of 1994 to raise at United Nations level the illegal occupation of East Timor by the Indonesian Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Nora Owen

Question:

50 Mrs. Owen asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs in view of the recent disclosure of the killing of East Timorese in hospital beds, will he lead his EU partners in condemnation of the Indonesian Government's action in East Timor; and if he will notify that Government of the revulsion of the Irish people at such abuse of human rights.

Enda Kenny

Question:

57 Mr. E. Kenny asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs in view of the recent disclosures of the killing of East Timorese in hospital beds, will he lead his EU partners in condemnation of the Indonesian Government's action in East Timor; and if he will notify that Government of the revulsion of the Irish people at such abuse of human rights.

Mr. Spring

I propose to take Questions Nos. 6, 23, 31, 42, 50 and 57 together.

Ireland remains very concerned at reports of continuing human rights abuses in East Timor. We condemn all such abuses and our concerns on this matter have been, and will continue to be, conveyed to the Indonesian Government at every appropriate opportunity.

As was the case in 1992 and 1993, the question of human rights in East Timor is being debated at this year's session of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights which is currently meeting in Geneva. This year, as in previous years, Ireland and our European Union partners are playing an active and leading role at the session in highlighting concerns about human rights abuses in East Timor.

Relations between the European Union and Indonesia take place within the framework of the Union's relations with the ASEAN countries. Human rights and development co-operation are central elements of this relationship and these questions are regularly addressed in the wide range of contacts between the Union and ASEAN. In these discussions Ireland emphasises the importance of the strict observance of human rights in the context of development co-operation.

We believe that the ongoing dialogue between Portugal and Indonesia under the auspices of the UN Secretary General is the best way to resolve the question of the status of East Timor. We have fully supported and will continue to support the Secretary General's efforts in this regard which we hope will lead to a just, comprehensive and internationally acceptable solution to the question.

Mr. Connor

Is the Minister aware that the country which supplies the greatest number of arms to Indonesia is the United Kingdom? Have we protested to our nearest neighbour about its arms trade with Indonesia, given that these arms, including Hawk bombers, are used to oppress the people of East Timor? Is the Minister aware that the Timor Gap, the narrow body of water between Indonesia and East Timor, has been exploited for its oil and other resources by Australia and Indonesia jointly? International law as enunciated by the United Nations sets down that this body of water forms part of the territorial waters of East Timor. Have we protested to Australia specifically and Indonesia about the exploitation of these resources which, if considered in the context of international law as enunciated by the United Nations, is illegal.

Mr. Spring

On the question of arms sales by the United Kingdom and other countries to Indonesia, it is a matter for the United Nations Security Council to decide whether there should be an international arms embargo. Ireland will continue to advocate restraint in the interests of international peace and security and will do everything possible in that respect. I am not aware if any protest has been made to Australia about these matters. I have contacted the Indonesian foreign minister about human rights issues and have had a number of discussions with my Portuguese counterpart about the efforts he is making through the United Nations. The best way to bring this difficult matter in East Timor to an end is through the office of the Secretary General of the United Nations with Indonesia and Portugal. With our partners in the European Union we will do everything possible in that regard.

Mrs. Owen

I specifically asked the Minister if he was aware of the recent disclosure that after the Dili Cemetery massacre Indonesian soldiers killed some of the wounded people in their hospital beds. If not, will he make himself aware of it and raise it with the Indonesian Government? Will the Minister take more interest in this subject and lead the campaign in Europe to highlight the injustices and lack of human rights in East Timor and, if necessary, demand sanctions against Indonesia if they continue to massacre and mistreat the people of East Timor? There is no point in continuing to do business with them when they get away with these abuses.

Mr. Spring

I am aware of the brutal savagery which was reported to us from East Timor and the Government condemns it. The question of sanctions would have to be considered within the European Union, and it is my intention to make sure that it is. The abuses of human rights in East Timor are unacceptable and we will do everything possible to ensure that this matter is high on the agenda because of the incidents the Deputy has mentioned. The Government is deeply concerned at the situation in East Timor. This has been brought to the attention of the Indonesian Government through diplomatic channels and I have written to the Indonesian foreign minister expressing my concern. That will be repeated and we will condemn the out-rages in the most direct way possible.

Mr. M. McDowell

Will the Minister indicate what prejudice, if any, the Indonesian Government has thus far suffered in its dealings with the European Union as a result of its annexation of East Timor? What practical steps have there been to demonstrate the European Union's displeasure at the annexation of East Timor?

Mr. Spring

I cannot cite any incidence of prejudice against the Indonesian Government on the part of the European Union.

Mrs. Owen

That is the point. Nothing has happened.

Mr. M. McDowell

All help short of aid is what they are getting.

Mr. Spring

My Portuguese colleague has raised the matter on many occasions and has received our unequivocal support. The matter has been raised at the United Nations. The best prospect of bringing about a resolution is in the context of the discussions taking place in mediation by the Secretary General of the United Nations. We should be giving every support to the Secretary General of the UN to ensure that a resolution can be found to this conflict.

Proinsias De Rossa

Can I take it from the Minister's reply that he has not made any representations to the Australian Government? Will he undertake to do so regarding their role in the continued oppression of the people of East Timor? In addition, has he raised within the CFSP of the European Union the matter of East Timor and, specifically, the sale of arms by members of the European Union to Indonesia which are being used for the slaughter that is taking place there? Is the Minister aware that on an earlier occasion, about 18 months ago, the European Union threatened to take action against Indonesia but has not done so? Will he raise that matter within the European Union?

Mr. Spring

I will certainly take action on the latter matter mentioned by the Deputy. I will also arrange to have discussions with the Australian Government about East Timor. On the question of human rights abuses, the United Nations Commission on Human Rights is the appropriate forum for consideration of such questions. In relation to arms sales, our policy has always been to do everything possible to reduce the sale of armaments.

Mrs. Owen

Does the Minister not recall that when the Prime Minister of Australia was here recently there were pickets outside almost every function he attended to remind him, if he needed reminding, of the role Australia might play in getting through to the Indonesian Government? I and my party leader submitted a letter to Mr. Keating outlining our outrage at Indonesian attacks in East Timor. Has there been any discussion about the inconsistency between the way the world very quickly put sanctions on countries like Libya and Iraq and the way it is treating Indonesia in the context of East Timor? The case of Indonesia and East Timor is no different from the case of Iraq when it took over Kuwait, except that it is on a smaller scale and the East Timorese have no oil or other product that we want and Indonesia has. Will the Minister take up with his European Union partners the possibility of the European Union not giving favourable treatment to Indonesia?

Mr. Spring

I am not aware of any discussions along the lines suggested by the Deputy, but the point is well made. I will arrange for discussions to take place with the Australian Government about this matter to see if assistance is forthcoming and I will give it the priority which this House is demanding and which is justified.

Mr. Connor

How do we conduct our diplomatic relations with Indonesia? I take it we have a diplomatic conduit of some kind with that country. What has been done in recent years through that diplomatic conduit to protest to Indonesia about its invasion and occupation of East Timor? I do not know if the Minister has seen a recent television programme by the eminent journalist, Mr. John Pilger. It contains a particularly offensive scene which shows the Australian foreign minister and the Indonesian foreign minister in an aircraft flying over East Timor and toasting with champagne the handiwork that had gone on down below.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would prefer to deal with this matter without reference to personalities of a friendly nation.

Proinsias De Rossa

How could they be friendly when they are supporting the slaughter of the people of East Timor? Ask the East Timorese whether they are friendly or not.

An Ceann Comhairle

It is not done in this House. We do not reflect on the representatives of a nation with whom we have diplomatic relations and whom we hosted in this House a short time ago.

Mr. M. McDowell

And on which occasion we failed, for some reason, to bring up the issue of East Timor.

Mr. Connor

I am glad the Minister will be taking up the issue with Australia because we have a direct diplomatic conduit with them. Will the Minister question this particularly offensive scene in this film? What was the foreign minister of Australia doing toasting the activities in East Timor with champagne?

An Ceann Comhairle

I have already admonished the Deputy in that regard.

Mr. Spring

I have not seen the film which caused offence to Deputy Connor.

Mrs. Owen

I have a copy of it which I will allow the Minister to look at.

Mr. Spring

When I would have the time to watch it is another matter. We have raised our concerns with the Indonesian Government. I will have discussions with the Australian Government and I will have no difficulty in conveying the strong views of this House about the appalling situation that exists.

Proinsias De Rossa

I appreciate that the Government has raised the matter with Indonesia and the undertaking the Minister has now given to raise it with the Australian Government. It is equally important that he raise the matter within the European Union under the heading of common foreign policy and that we make it clear that we are unhappy that partners of ours in the European Union are supplying arms to the Indonesian Government. Will the Minister also note that the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs passed a motion urging a settlement of the conflict in East Timor based on the self determination of the people there and that it is not simply a question of the abuse of the bodily integrity of the people of East Timor but also an abuse of their political rights?

Mr. Spring

Because I did not refer to all aspects does not mean that we are not interested in the whole question of self determination of the people of East Timor. The matter is placed on the European Union agenda regularly and I support the efforts made by my Portuguese colleague at UN level in that regard. As suggested by the Deputy, I will raise at the UN the fact that we take offence at the supply of arms to that country by our European Union partners because, ultimately, that will not solve the problem.