Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 14 Apr 1994

Vol. 441 No. 3

Adjournment Debate. - Garda Recruitment.

Mr. Shatter

I thank you for allowing me to raise this matter. To ensure that I do not cause distress to you or the Minister I will be referring to a concept known as WILIs — worn out institutional and legislative idiosyncracies. It comes from the same derivative as the concept of a quango.

I want to use this debate to declare war on WILIs. It is time we got rid of worn out institutional and legislative idiosyncracies. I am declaring war on nonsensical and outdated rules and regulations devised by Government Departments which defy rational explanation. This issue is one of a number of similar issues I intend raising in the coming months.

Last Sunday's newspapers carried advertisement for the recruitment of an additional 1,050 gardaí. This recruitment has the support of all sides in this House in the context of the fight against crime and the need for additional gardaí. Having regard to the reduction in the strength of the Garda Force in recent years this recruitment has particular support on this side of the House. However, I was astonished to see in the advertisement that the Department of Justice still deems it essential for a man to be a minimum of 5'9" in height before he can be eligible to become a member of the Garda while a woman need only be 5' 5" in height. Previously in the House I have asked the Minister for Justice to explain why men need this extra four inches in height. To date I have not received a rational explanation. The last occasion on which this matter arose the Minister of State at the Department of Justice treated me to a legal treatise as to why it was legally possible to impose such different eligibility requirements as between men and women without telling me why they were needed.

I want the Minister to explain to the House why it is regarded as contrary to the national and public interest that men of five feet, five inches in height conduct investigations into fraud, embezzlements, burglaries, rapes and murders. Is there something special about the investigative instincts and acumen of men of five feet, nine inches in height that differentiates them from their peers of lower stature? What is this special ingredient? Can the Minister tell the House what inquiries were conducted by the Department of Justice to determine that women of five feet, five inches in height actually possess this special ingredient while men of similar stature apparently do not?

Perhaps it could be explained to the House why it has been possible for the Department of Justice to have had a number of very eminent senior and junior Ministers, politically responsible for the Garda force, who themselves are excluded from these height regulations from becoming gardaí if they wish to do so. Was it that they entered politics because they failed the height eligibility test to become members of the Garda Síochána and went for second best and made a job of becoming Ministers for Justice. Why is it that the Minister of State at the Department of Justice. Deputy O'Dea, who has been sent in yet again by his senior colleague to defend the Minister on this issue, as a man of substantial political stature, stands over a rule which regards him personally as ineligible to join the Garda Síochána over which he presides as Minister?

I have raised this issue before. It had been my hope that, as a result of doing so, winds of change would have blown through the cobwebbed corridors of the Department of Justice, and that the present Ministers, both senior and junior, would have attacked this ludicrous anomaly with some of the reforming zeal they have shown for some other issues.

These Garda height requirements qualify for the April WILI award of merit. I am looking forward to making a similar award in the month of May to a different Government Department on a different issue. While police forces world-wide have no difficulty recruiting five feet, seven inch and five feet, eight inch men, in Ireland it is seen to be essential that a barrier be erected and preserved against the possibility of such men infiltrating and undermining the Garda Force.

Ironically, the advertisement published last Sunday announced that the Garda Síochána is "an equal opportunity employer". A more ludicrous claim in the context of the different eligibility height criteria applicable as between men and women would be difficult to find. Perhaps the next electoral amendment Bill should insist that, to be eligible as a Dáil candidate, a man should be five feet, nine five inches in height. Or perhaps the Select Committee on Legislation and Security should conduct public hearings so that members of the Garda Síochána, the Minister and his officials, the general public and those engaged in criminal activities can make submission on the issue. Perhaps the Minister can clarify this for us; perhaps research has been undertaken by the Department and is currently being kept secret, which indicates that the majority of male criminals in this country are above five feet, nine inches in height and that is only people of higher stature who commit crimes and, ergo, we require gardaí of five feet, nine inches in height.

I hope the Minister will now recognise that this rule should not be maintained. New advertisements should be published in this weekend's papers stating clearly that the eligibility of those who wish to join the Garda Síochána will be based on their capacity to be good members of that force and that no discrimination in relation to height will influence the decisions made on recruitment applications.

I hope the Minister of State, Deputy O'Dea, a man for whom I have a high regard and indeed some degree of political affection, will join me in a campaign to bring to an end this ludicrous and ridiculous discrimination against the men of Ireland.

Mr. O'Dea

I thank Deputy Shatter for his kind remarks.

A key element of the crime-fighting package announced by the Minister last December was the Government's decision to recruit over 1,000 additional gardaí in the period 1995 to 1997. As the Deputy will be aware, a new competition to recruit 1,050 Garda trainees to cater for requirements until the end of 1977 was advertised in the national press on 10 April, 1994. The competition, which is being run by the Civil Service Commission, is open to both men and women. There is no restriction on the number of either sex to be recruited within that 1,050 figure. Successfuly candidates, whether male or female, will be called in order of merit.

To be eligible to be considered for appointment to the Garda Síochána applicants must be at least 18 and under 26 years of age on 1 April, 1994, be not less than five feet, nine inches in the case of men and five feet, five inches in the case of women, have achieved at least Grade D in five subjects in the Leaving Certificate or equivalent. Candidates who intend sitting this year's Leaving Certificate examination will be eligible to apply and results obtained by 1 September, 1994 will be taken into account. Candidates must also be of good character and be certified by the Garda surgeon to be in good health, of sound constitution and fit physically and mentally to perform the duties of a member of the force. Incidentally, Deputy Shatter was incorrect when he stated in February last that the regulations obscurely require that both men and women be built in proportion to their height. That requirement of proportionality applies only in the case of men.

Mr. Shatter

The Minister of State deserves a special award for keeping a straight face when he says that.

Mr. O'Dea

In the past Ministers for Justice have consulted with the Garda authorities on the criteria for eligibility to become a member of the Garda Síochána. The Garda authorities consider that the current criteria for eligibility are necessary to ensure that the candidates selected are suitable for the duties of the force and the Minister is disposed to be guided by them on this matter.

I am conscious that Deputy Shatter has raised the question of the different height requirements for male and female candidates in the past. Indeed this matter was raised on the Adjournment only last February. I will again set out the position in the matter. Regulation 5 of the Garda Síochána (Admission and Appointments) Regulations 1988 specifies that the Commissioner shall not admit a person as a trainee to the Garda Síochána, if a male, to be not less than five feet, nine inches in height and, if a female, to be not less than five feet, five inches in height. The height differential between the sexes is permitted — as I said in February last — by section 5 of the European Communities (Employment Equality) Regulations, 1985 which amends various other stipulations.

I trust the Deputy would agree that equality considerations do not require that the physical requirements for a job must be identical for men and women. However, they do require the elimination of unjustified discrimination as between men and women. The different height requirements for men and women in the Garda Síochána — which arise from the particular nature of the employment — are not contrary to equality law at present. The practical reality in the case of the Garda Síochána is that, because of the nature of the employment, it is necessary that persons recruited should be of a minimum physical stature and physique to meet the day to day challenges they encounter in the course of an ordinary day's work.

In relation to what Deputy Shatter says, I take his point completely, but unfortunately the work of the Garda Síochána is not confined merely to investigative procedures. As the Deputy will know — while somebody may come in on the ground floor they might progress to investigating big frauds and the like. But much of the day to day work of the Garda involves heavy, physical, dangerous work, when they literally put their lives on the line. Therefore, it is necessary that people be of a certain minimum strength.

Mr. Shatter

What is the difference between a five feet, five inch woman and a five feet, five inch man?

Mr. O'Dea

There are many more five feet, nine inch men than there are five feet, nine inch women. If we were to equalise the position by bringing the women's height requirement up to five feet, nine inches, very few women would be eligible.

Mr. Shatter

Bring it downwards.

Mr. O'Dea

Whereas, if you bring the height requirement downwards, I am afraid that the stature of the men being recruited into the Garda Síochána would not command much public confidence. Deputy Shatter knows what I am talking about.

Mr. Shatter

In the British police force the requirement is five feet, seven inches.

Mr. O'Dea

Well, five feet, seven inches is different from five feet, five inches. If one brought it down to five feet, seven inches, then there would be a distinction drawn between five feet, seven inch men and five feet, five inch women.

Mr. Shatter

Join me in the "Free WILI" campaign.

Mr. O'Dea

The reality is that no matter what the height requirement, people under that height requirement always will be able to claim they are being discriminated against. If it were brought down to five feet, five inches, then everybody would contend we were discriminating against men of five feet only, or four feet, eleven inches, when the situation would quickly become ridiculous. We are guided by the experts, the Garda authorities in this matter.

Mr. Shatter

Is it not ridiculous that men of five feet, six inches cannot join but women of five feet, five inches can?

Mr. O'Dea

The reality is that the line must be drawn somewhere when looking for people of a minimum physical requirement to carry out these dangerous, hazardous duties.