Vol. 441 No. 6
8 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs his views on whether the three-strand talks process can now be restarted before the European elections in view of reports to the effect that the Government believes that it will not be possible to restart such talks until after these elections.
10 Mr. M. McDowell asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs the prospects for negotiations in Northern Ireland without the participation of Sinn Féin/IRA; the prospects for negotiations with the participation of Sinn Féin/IRA; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
12 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs when the next meeting of the Anglo-Irish Conference will take place; the proposals, if any, he intends to bring to the next meeting to promote political progress in Northern Ireland, based on the principles of the Joint Declaration of 15 December 1993, in view of the fact that four months have now elapsed since the Declaration was signed and the continuing campaign of violence by the IRA and other terrorist groups; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
16 Mr. M. McDowell asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs his views on whether there should be negotiations between Sinn Fein/IRA and the British Government in advance of a permanent and complete renunciation of violence; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
32 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs how far advanced is the work of the Liaison Committee on Northern Ireland; and when he will put forward agreed proposals for institutional and other structures between Northern Ireland and the Republic.
41 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs the steps, if any, he is taking to get talks between the constitutional parties in Northern Ireland re-started; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
48 Mr. O'Malley asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs the prospects for negotiations in Northern Ireland without the participation of Sinn Féin/IRA; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
71 Miss Harney asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs if he envisages a devolved power-sharing Government having any role to play in securing peace in Northern Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
83 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs his views on the way in which strand three of the Brooke/Mayhew talks should be developed; and if he envisages the creation of any joint institutions in this context.
84 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs his views on the way in which strand two of the Brooke/Mayhew talks process should be developed; if the Government is ready to table any proposals on this strand; and if he envisages the creation of any joint institutions in this context.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 10, 12, 16, 32, 41, 48, 71, 83 and 84 together.
At the next meeting of the Anglo-Irish Conference, which is to take place within the next week, I shall discuss with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland how the two Governments can best take forward the peace process initiated by the Joint Declaration, and promote political progress.
We are determined to pursue a lasting political settlement through dialogue across all three strands and building on the achievements of the Joint Declaration. We would like to see such dialogue get underway as soon as possible. It is, however, a political reality that the rivalry and pressures of the European elections seem to be an added obstacle in the way of the Unionist parties returning to the table. I hope the situation will improve once the elections are out of the way.
We also wish future dialogue to be as comprehensive as possible. The Joint Declaration states that democratically mandated parties, which establish a commitment to exclusively peaceful methods, will be free to participate fully in democratic politics and join in dialogue in due course on the way ahead. The manner in which this would be done has also been set out clearly by both Governments.
It is up to the Republican leadership to decide whether they will agree to a total cessation of violence, thereby opening the way for the processes envisaged in the declaration.
There is no change in the consistent position of the Government that agreement in Ireland must be pursued and established by exclusively peaceful, democratic means and that, consequently, there should be no negotiation with Sinn Féin-IRA on the basis of the "armed struggle". Respect for the democratic mandate cannot be a matter of mere tactical choice, and we cannot accept that it may be supplanted by recourse to violence, whenever that appears more expedient.
The Joint Declaration removes the last vestige of justification for resort to violence. I hope that the Republican movement will heed the unmistakeable wishes of the people, North and South, which are clearly for peace and the pursuit of an honourable accommodation through the political processes which are now available.
A cessation of violence would transform the political landscape and greatly enhance the prospects for a successful outcome to negotiations. We have also, however, made clear that no party can have a veto on progress, and that continued recourse to violence should not be allowed to block the quest for agreement.
In the absence of progress among the political parties, the two Governments have a responsibility to do everything in their power to advance the prospects of agreement. Officials are currently engaged in intensive discussions of ideas and proposals on various aspects of a possible future agreement, building on the Joint Declaration and the three-strand process. New arrangements could include devolved structures with widespread support throughout the community, which is a shared policy objective of both Governments under the terms of the Anglo-Irish Agreement. It must be recognised however that this could be achieved only with the support and cooperation of the political parties in Northern Ireland.
These discussions include matters which are properly for decision by the two Governments in strand three, and a framework which we hope might guide future negotiations with the political parties towards a successful conclusion. It would, however, be inappropriate at this stage for me to go into details of these ongoing discussions, or of the structures which might be envisaged to enhance cooperation between the two Governments and to develop closer North-South relationships. The Secretary of State and I will review progress at the forthcoming meeting of the conference and give directions for further work. We are determined to press this forward as speedily as possible. An agreed framework document of the kind we are working on could make a valuable contribution towards future talks, since agreement between the two Governments would offer the best possible basis for the search for agreement between the political parties.
Was the Tánaiste consulted? Did he agree with the Taoiseach's detailed sketching of the arrangements for the government of a united Ireland, including a provision for 30 per cent of seats in the government to be allocated to Northern Ireland and that these would be further subdivided on confessional lines between Catholics and Protestants?
The Deputy realises that the nationalist aspiration to unity by peaceful means and by agreement is entirely legitimate and I do not share the view that any mention of it must be deemed to be politically incorrect.
The Taoiseach was describing his vision of one possible way in which the fundamental principles of agreement and consent might be met in such an eventuality. His central message was that agreement, consent and full political participation are essential in all circumstances. Given the constant references to fear of coercion by the Unionist community, the Taoiseach was acing within his powers to describe his vision of one possibility which might arise if we could bring negotiations to a conclusion.
The House will note the care with which the Tánaiste read his reply and will infer from it that he was not consulted by the Taoiseach before that comment was made.
What is the approximate timescale for the presentation of the framework document for the resumption of talks? When does the Tánaiste expect the Irish Government will table its proposals in Strand Two with regard to North-South institutions? Does he see merit in initiating some form of low level discussions between the parties in Northern Ireland on matters upon which agreement is possible in the short term, for example, the outlines of a bill of rights, upon which in theory to date, all parties are agreed?
On the question of the timetable, as I said in my reply the Irish Government is willing and available and would respond tomorrow morning if the constitutional parties in Northern Ireland were available to engage in dialogue.
I am satisfied with the significant progress made by the liaison group on the framework document in recent weeks and it is my strong desire that we maintain that momentum. Officials on both sides are well aware of this. It is the wish also of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. I hope that within a matter of weeks, we can reach agreement on the framework document. The proposals for strand two will be incorporated within the framework document and we hope to make progress on that. I am available at all times to discuss with the constitutional parties in Northern Ireland — the Unionist parties and the SDLP — a bill of rights, a covenant or any proposal on ongoing difficulties that would assist in making progress.
I note that the Tánaiste said the Taoiseach was speaking in a personal capacity last Saturday. Is it desirable that members of the Government — whether at the top or the bottom of the pecking order — should express personal views rather than governmental views on a matter of this importance?
In his original reply the Tánaiste referred to new arrangements involving devolved structures for Northern Ireland being a matter of discussion between the two Governments at the moment. Am I to take it that the devolution of authority we are talking about in that context is devolved power from the United Kingdom Parliament to Northern Ireland with Northern Ireland remaining part of the UK and we are not talking about joint authority or devolution from a United Ireland Parliament to Northern Ireland?
The Deputy is well aware that party leaders, including the Taoiseach, myself, Deputies Bruton, Harney and De Rossa have on many occasions taken the opportunity to express views, for example, at the Irish Association which has been used to enhance the whole prospect of discussions on Northern Ireland.
There are the Chatham House rules.
With all due respects, there is no Chatham House rule in relation to the Irish Association and we have all made very public statements to them in recent months, as far back as last February, if I remember correctly.
I am sorry, I was wrong.
I accept the Deputy's apology.
We are talking about Ógra Fianna Fáil.
It is not the first time the suggestion put out by the Taoiseach, has been made.
All parties in this House have set out to allay fears — in particular the fear of coercion — the mistrust and misunderstandings of which there are many in Northern Ireland about the Government, politics in the South and our attitudes. It is reasonable for the Taoiseach or myself, as Minister for Foreign Affairs, to outline aspects of the generosity that can be expected in any negotiations.
On the question of devolution in Northern Ireland, we cannot even get to the table. Elections will also be held in Northern Ireland on 9 June and it is unlikely that there will be momentum in Northern Ireland before then. The Unionist parties are fighting with one another for representation in the European Parliament. Likewise, John Hume is hoping to regain his seat which he obviously will. It is unlikely there will be any discussions on what institutional framework will be acceptable. Since it was formed the Government has been reasonable in terms of what it is trying to establish, discussions, openness and firmly establishing the principle of consent. This time last year we were using words such as "could" or "would" and we set out to remove those obstacles. At the conclusion of the last round of the three strand talks there were difficulties. The parties in Government here were facing an election and perhaps were not as forthcoming as they should have been. The situation is different now and we have tried to overcome the difficulties. I would like to see those talks recommencing as quickly as possible. The solution lies in the three strand talks process. If we can remove violence from the equation the prospects would be better because, ultimately, it would be much easier to solve the conflict.
Deputy M. McDowell rose.
There are nine minutes left. I am anxious to facilitate Deputies Owen and Connor who have tabled priority questions. This cannot be achieved without brevity.
Does the Minister agree that it would help to build trust in Northern Ireland if our Government finally faced up to political realities and said, on the question of structures on which it is negotiating, that in all probability Northern Ireland will remain part of the United Kingdom for the foreseeable future? Would it not be of help in building confidence among Unionists if that basic admission of truth and fact was made, however embarrassing it may be for some people south of the Border?
There is no question of anybody south of the Border being embarrassed about the Government's position on negotiations. We have been reasonable in relation to the prospects for an overall constitutional settlement, we want to enter negotiations and the sooner we do the better.
Will the Minister outline the nature — I do not expect him to give us the details — of the framework document being negotiated between the two Governments given his reference to the fact that it will incorporate proposals under strand 2 of the three strand talks process? As the Anglo-Irish Agreement provides for an examination of the feasibility of a bill of rights have the two Governments examined that question since the Anglo-Irish Agreement was accepted? Has the Government put forward any proposals and has agreement been reached?
The question of a bill of rights was discussed at the last meeting of the Anglo-Irish Conference — there is agreement in this House that there should be either a covenant or a bill of rights — and will continue to be discussed. Agreement has not been reached but one would not expect this until one enters into negotiations. For example, what new institutions will be required in breaking the impasse in Northern Ireland in terms of the aspirations of the Nationalist community on the one hand and the Unionist community on the other? The two Governments are working on a framework document because of the difficulties we have encountered in bringing the constitutional parties to the table. I would much prefer if the parties were at the table with us and making an input into the institutional framework which will be necessary. That will be part of the framework document and I hope that both Governments, with the determination and momentum achieved in the context of the Downing Street Declaration, will come to an agreement on the document very soon.
Does the Minister agree that many people are worried about the speech by the Taoiseach at the weekend because they feel there is a need for a change of focus in Government policy on Northern Ireland from talking about long term scenarios and over-arching agreements which would solve everything in one major deal towards a step by step approach where confidence would be built by agreeing on what can be agreed, starting with the easy things and working from there rather than attempting — the Taoiseach gives the impression that this is what he is attempting to do — to build some magnificent structure to solve everything at one stroke? I got the impression from some of his public statements that the Minister agrees this is not the right focus and that we should be focusing on a practical step by step approach to agree what can be agreed rather than saying that everything must be agreed before we can agree on anything.
I do not want to give the Deputy the wrong impression; we have had difficulties in the past. I read a number of editorials in newspapers in Northern Ireland, including The Belfast Telegraph and in the South — there was an article in The Irish Times today — on the Taoiseach's speech. He described a vision which has been outlined by Fianna Fáil leaders in the past in relation to the traditional aspiration——
His vision is another's nightmare.
The threat of Loyalist violence in Northern Ireland is increasing while the violence of the Provisional IRA is ongoing. I am happy to work to save lives and stop the conflict. I am convinced that the Taoiseach wants to do likewise.
Deputy Harte rose.
As we are dealing with priority questions I regret I cannot facilitate the Deputy.
