Irish Shipping Limited (Payment of Former Employees) Bill, 1994: Second Stage.

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Andrews)

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I wish to give credit where it is due. My predecessor, Deputy Woods, is the author of this legislation and I see myself as the facilitator. When I received the bones of the legislation I pursued the matter quickly and that is why the Bill is before the House with such alacrity. Deputy Woods acted diligently on behalf of the workers of Irish Shipping.

My sentiments in introducing this Bill are a mixture of sadness and satisfaction; sadness at the recollection of the demise in November 1984 of Irish Shipping Limited after more than 40 years' service to the State; satisfaction because the Bill acknowledges the exceptional circumstances in which more than 300 employees found themelves because of the liquidation of the company and makes appropriate and equitable retribution in that regard.

Irish Shipping Limited was established by statute in 1947 as a wholly-owned State company. As most Deputies are aware, the company came into operation to meet the economic and trading requirements of the State during the Emergency in World War II. Irish Shipping crews played a significant and heroic role in ensuring that essential goods were supplied to the State during those years. Because of the times that were in it the nature of the service in those early years was often dangerous and difficult and all Irish people owe a debt of gratitude to the crews involved.

When hostilities ceased, Irish Shipping continued and expanded its operations. The company traded successfully for more than 30 years. Its existence underpinned the Irish national merchant fleet. The State for its part was secure in the knowledge that minimum strategic trading requirements could be met with the company's vessels.

As most Deputies know the shipping industry is both cyclical and volatile. In the late 1970s and early 1980s Irish Shipping Limited experienced a downturn in trading. As a result the company found it could not meet its financial commitments and tragically went into liquidation in November 1984. This event had repercussions for the company's creditors, its staff and the State.

The 300 or so staff of Irish Shipping Limited who lost their jobs were perhaps the hardest hit on a human or personal level. Overnight their situation had changed utterly. For them a monster rather than a terrible beauty was born. One day they were in secure pensionable State sector jobs; the next they were unemployed. Many had devoted their entire working lives to the company and found themselves discarded in middleage.

The staff were entitled to and received payments under the Redundancy Payments Acts. The company was not in a position to pay anything more. This was small comfort to the staff who had had an exemplary industrial relations record and who were known worldwide for their high standards of seamanship. They had no opportunity to negotiate any terms or try to rescue jobs. Many in the community sympathised with the staff and this sympathy was shared by Deputies on all sides of this House.

For the State, the collapse of Irish Shipping Limited was unprecedented. The company which in more than one sense was a flagship of the State and of the public sector had disintegrated. The fleet was reduced by almost half. Thankfully, the company left a legacy of highly trained and highly qualified ships' officers and cadets, many of whom have gone on to hold key positions in shore-based employment, for example, as ship surveyors, harbour masters and in ship management and operation. I am sure these people were glad to get those positions. Nevertheless, I think many of them would have liked to continue in their seafaring career. Tragically they did not have an opportunity to pursue their real profession and to go to sea with pride.

A package of incentives was introduced in 1987 to encourage investment in modernisation of the merchant fleet. I am pleased that as a result, and in contrast to the trend in other EU member states, the fleet increased from 142,000 deadweight tons in 1986 to about 190,000 deadweight tons at present. While I am pleased with the shipowners' response to the incentives, there is no room for complacency. We should not stand back and let things happen; we must ensure they happen in the proper context. The fleet and Irish seafarers face stiff competition from other EU member states and third countries.

The Programme for Government provides for a review of the fiscal and regulatory measures affecting our merchant fleet, with a view particularly to enhancing employment opportunities for seafarers. In line with the programme I am currently reviewing ways in which the operating climate for the shipping sector can be enhanced to support the objectives of improved services and standards, the modernisation of the Irish registered fleet and an improved ability to compete. The strategic objective is to enable Irish shipping companies to meet international competition under comparable cost conditions but without compromising on safety or the prevention of pollution. The intention is to ensure the maintenance and creation of employment in the sector and to facilitate productive investment to modernise and expand the fleet.

The review which takes EU shipping policy trends and objectives into account is being conducted in full consultation with the industry. However, to further inform this process the Department of the Marine plans to commission shortly an economic evaluation of the sector which will also address the case for additional support measures conducive to an efficient and competitive shipping industry. In that context the various incentives currently available to shipping sectors in certain other EU member states are being examined. These can lead to a distortion of competition between EU carriers. Considerable differentials in operation and manning costs place European shipowners generally at a distinct competitive disadvantage vis-à-vis flags of convenience. The pressures on European, including Irish, shipowners to move to such registries which offer liberal tax and operating regimes are considerable and growing.

I do not propose at this stage to speak in detail about the provisions of the Bill. It is a short Bill which, I would like to think, has all party agreement. It certainly has the agreement of the victims of the shipping company's collapse. I hope the Bill will be dealt with expeditiously by this House, will go quickly to the Seanad and will be signed into law by the President.

The Bill provides for the setting up of a committee comprised of people from various Government Departments and others. It will examine the various demands and the people concerned, or there representatives where appropriate, will be compensated as a matter of urgency. These matters can be discussed in detail on Committee Stage. The Bill provides the necessary framework for implementation of the Government's decision last December to make ex-gratia once-off payments to certain former employees of Irish Shipping Limited. The commitment I made at that time to introduce the necessary legislation at the earliest possible date has been delivered on with speed.

Under the Bill certain former employees, or the representatives of deceased former employees, will be eligible for payment of a lump sum equivalent to three weeks' pay per year of service up to a ceiling of £50,000 per employee. It is expected that more than 300 people will qualify for payment, at a gross cost to the State of £3.5 million.

Those entitled to payment are persons who, at the date of liquidation of the company — 14 November 1984 — were employees of the company who had at that date at least two years' continuous employment and who make application for payment in the manner to be specified. Only those former employees who are eligible for payment may receive payment, as agreed by the people who negotiated the settlement with the Department of the Marine. In this context I stress that applicants must have been in the employment of Irish Shipping Limited at the date of liquidation.

A committee representing Government Departments is being set up to assist with the assessment of applications once the legislation is passed by the Oireachtas. The processing of payments to the former employees will follow as quickly as possible after the Bill becomes law. I am not trying to rush the legislation but I think the House will agree that the objectives of the Bill are achievable. Urgency is the key word and the sooner I stop talking and let others speak the better.

The committee, which has been acting on behalf of former employees in seeking compensation, has indicated that the measures contained in the Bill are acceptable. I am grateful to the committee for its attitude in this regard. I am grateful also to the officials in the Department of the Marine who gave considerable time and energy to bringing about what is a just and equitable solution to a serious problem affecting a tragically treated section of the community. The officials in the Department of the Marine spent long hours and engaged in hard work to bring about an end to this tragic episode.

I am confident, therefore, that these measures will facilitate a solution to the problem that a sad chapter in our economic and maritime history can be finally put to rest with dignity. I commend the Bill to the House.

Mr. Bradford

Unlike last week, the Minister is not coming from 11-1 down on this Bill and I congratulate him on bringing it forward this morning.

Mr. Andrews

I have applied for the job as manager of the fourth division. I am awaiting the result of my application. I may not be here next week so the Deputy should make the most of me.

Mr. Bradford

I wish to compliment the former Minister for the Marine, Deputy Woods, on his effort to bring these proposals before us. I would also like to mention the Minister of State, Deputy O'Sullivan, who raised this matter on a number of occasions. I believe his were the first comments I heard in relation to a possible solution to this problem and, hopefully, the Minister of State will be back with us in the House shortly.

My comments will be relatively brief. It is important that the Bill passes speedily through both Houses and that the committee the Minister proposes to establish will be in a position to deal with the problems and bring to a welcome end the long suffering of the former employees of Irish Shipping.

In a sense this Bill represents a new dawn following a long and dark decade for these employees. Obviously we would all wish that the events of 1984 had never transpired. I was not a Member of this House then but everybody associated with Irish Shipping would agree that it was a dark day for the shipping industry and for the country when one of our flagship industries went into liquidation. We are now in a position to make right a wrong.

My party has no difficulty with this Bill. I will tease out on Committee Stage some of the points I raised. I hope the Bill will have a speedy passage through the Oireachtas and those who waited so long for the money due to them will be paid in the near future. Everyone who looks back to 1984 with an appropriate degree of regret and sadness can at least look forward to when the matter will be righted in 1994.

Mr. Clohessy

On behalf of my party I am pleased to see the problem resolved after ten years. I compliment the Minister for bringing forward the Bill. The question arose earlier about ministerial infallibility. I will not deal with that but it is nice to see a Minister address an issue in a humane way. The long ten year wait is over. I expect the Minister to consider the suggestions made in a sensible fashion and ensure that problems will be resolved. Ten years is a long time to wait for compensation and the matter of taxation should be looked at compassionately.

For years, these men and women were ignored and treated as if they were tainted by the liquidation of the company instead of being seen as the innocent victims of a State enterprise out of control. I am pleased that at last some degree of justice is being meted out to the former employees of Irish Shipping who suffered most during that unsavoury episode in our national life when the unacceptable face of a State agency was exposed in all its greed and petty vanity.

We can learn lessons from the demise of Irish Shipping; we must be alert for any abuse of taxpayers' money and that calls for even closer monitoring of expenditure and an emphasis on value and cost effectiveness. Let us not forget that Irish Shipping was out of control; the State company ran aground on the rocks of unrestraint where no adequate measures existed to track the course of its commercial decisions.

The debacle was a hard and painful lesson to learn. The whole degrading episode damaged our national image and reflected badly on this House because, in the final analysis, we are the legislators. We are elected to run the country on behalf of the people and the failure of Irish Shipping must to some degree be attributed to our lack of awareness through the State reporting structures that there were serious difficulties in the company.

It is true that there are two different approaches in both the public and private sectors. While the private sector is geared towards the performance and profit ethos, the public sector is often seen as the cosy, life long, secure, bureaucratic gravy train for those who lack a vision of Ireland; a sort of semi-retirement home for those whose first allegiance is not to the State but to their own financial and material comfort. They are doing a disservice to all the hard working men and women who strive daily to improve our country through State enterprise. While a hurtful episode like the liquidation of Irish Shipping casts a cloak of gloom over the entire public service, we must not tarnish all State employees with the same brush.

Yet, how often have we, as Members of this House, had to pass the picket of former employees of Irish Shipping? These men and women were forced to take their case to the streets of our capital city in a bid to win justice. I am sure no one likes protesting, no one likes having to walk up and down outside Leinster House with placards trying to attract public support for a complicated case.

We as legislators, however, must not forget the way these people were treated. They gave years of service to Irish Shipping; they were not responsible for ill-advised business deals and commercial decisions; they did not share in the high life, they were not allowed the luxury of some of the world's highest priced hotels. They were not the decision-makers; they were not the people with power. They were the mere workers, the men and women who were cast aside when the good for some ship hit the rocks of cold reality and the taxpayers' money went out with the ebbing tide. It has taken a long time and many years of fruitless but sustained lobbying for that tide to turn in favour of the workers.

I compliment the Minister on this Bill. Justice is being addressed today and our standing may be restored in the eyes of the people who have endured and suffered most from the tragedy of Irish Shipping.

The Bill makes provision for the payment of a lump sum to certain former employees of Irish Shipping. I note that it shall be calculated on the basis of an amount equal to three weeks pay per year of service up to the date of liquidation, subject to a maximum of £50,000 per former employee. What is the reason for this ceiling. Why is there a cut-off figure of £50,000? What if a former employee, due to his or her long service with the company, is entitled to a sum in excess of £50,000? Surely natural justice would dictate that he or she be paid the rightful entitlement. Does the Minister know how many former employees will qualify for the maximum payment of £50,000?

I also welcome the Minister's decision to appoint an inter-departmental committee to advise and assist him in the implementation of the provisions of the Bill. I note that the people concerned, those former employees of Irish Shipping, will have 12 months during which time they must make application for payment of the lump sum. I urge the Minister to make special efforts to highlight the importance of this Bill and ensure that all those who qualify for payment are informed. We tend to feel, because of our close involvement with the business of this House, that the public know what happens within these walls but very often the people outside this Chamber are preoccupied with their own very pressing concerns and do not pay much attention to the activities of their elected representatives.

I urge the Minister to ensure that the Bill is widely advertised so that justice can be done to those people who were treated so shabbily in the liquidation of Irish Shipping. I am glad that the personal representatives of deceased former employees will be eligible to apply for payment. The Minister's decision to provide £3.5 million in the Vote for the Department of the Marine for 1994 will ensure that the necessary finance is available. The establishment of an inter-departmental committee comprising officials from the Departments of the Marine, Finance, Enterprise and Employment and the Revenue Commissioners should ensure the smooth administration of the scheme. I commend the Minister on this initiative.

I hope this Bill will bring to an end a disgraceful episode in our national and maritime history, an episode which is a salutary lesson to all on how a lack of proper accountability in the disbursement of taxpayers' money can lead to humiliation and prolonged suffering for innocent workers. If any good is to come out of this distasteful liquidation it must be that all due care and diligence has to be taken when dealing with taxpayers' money instead of the devil-may-care attitude that seems to prevail in some sections of the State service in that respect. When there is no proper appreciation of taxpayers' money it becomes devalued, a mere commodity to be used at will by those with political power in State companies. We must not allow this culture of careless use of State funds to take hold. Such a retrograde step would be a disservice to people. I hope this legislation will restore faith in our commitment to natural justice. I wish the former employees of Irish Shipping well and urge them to make application for payment as soon as the Bill is enacted.

Mr. Rabbitte

The publication of this Bill marks the final passage of one chapter in the saga of Irish Shipping. Many questions about the background to the liquidation of Irish Shipping remain unanswered but at least this Bill — albeit almost ten years later — provides some form of financial compensation for those who lost their jobs as a result of the decision of the Fine Gael-Labour Government to scuttle Irish Shipping.

While money is never adequate compensation for jobs lost and careers ended, the eventual decision to make these payments is a vindication of the ten year struggle for justice by Irish Shipping workers. Rarely has the treatment of workers who so loyally served the State been so shabby and never before have workers fought with such courage, determination and tenacity to secure justice.

For the past ten years Irish Shipping workers have lobbied, campaigned, cajoled and harassed Members of this House and other public representatives to see justice done. I have no doubt that it was the realisation by this Government that the former employees of Irish Shipping would not walk away but were prepared to continue their campaign until they dropped, rather than any commitment to justice, that persuaded the Government to introduce this Bill.

It is clear that the Irish Shipping workers were given little consideration in the original decision to liquidate the company. The tone was set by the then Minister for Communications, Deputy Jim Mitchell, who announced the liquidation of the company to the House on 14 November 1984. His statement takes up approximately 260 lines in the Dáil Official Report, of which just eight are devoted to the plight of the workers, despite the fact that the 350 workers had an exemplary record of commitment to the company. From the time of the company's foundation in 1941 to its liquidation in 1984 not one day was lost through industrial action. Irish Shipping workers risked their lives to keep people supplied with necessities during the war years. No hint of blame or responsibility for the difficulties of the company were ever attached to the workforce who were skilled, diligent and loyal servants of the State. These workers were the biggest losers of all — they were dismissed with just statutory redundancy payments.

I have a bulging file of parliamentary questions going back to 1985 which raised the treatment of Irish Shipping workers. In that period we have had four Governments and I have lost track of the Ministers who have held responsibility for the Marine portfolio. While Governments and faces changed, the replies, excuses and equivocation remained the same. We were warned of the dangers of creating "dangerous precedents", unstated "legal problems" were cited and when they could think of nothing else Ministers were prepared to dive for cover behind the sub judice rule. While Governments could bend over backwards to rescue highly profitable concerns like Allied Irish Banks from the effect of its commercial mismanagement of for example, ICI, and introduce and enact legislation within days, the Irish Shipping workers were repeatedly put off.

If the Fine Gael-Labour Coalition Government abandoned the Irish Shipping workers, Fianna Fáil cynically exploited them for electoral purposes. We all remember the photographs in the newspapers on the eve of the 1987 general election of Deputy Haughey surrounded by uniformed Irish Shipping workers to whom he had made geneorus promises about how he would ensure that justice would be done if he was returned to power. Two years earlier Deputy John Wilson had come into the House and proposed the following motion in private members' business.

That Dáil Éireann, in view of the loyal service given by employees of Irish Shipping to the people of Ireland until the liquidation of the company in November 1984, calls on the Government to—

(i) pay adequate compensation to th staff of Irish Shipping of six weeks salary per year of service, and

(ii) restore the pensions of all former Irish Shipping staff to their pre-liquidation level,

and further calls on the Government to recognise the strategic and economic necessity for a national deep-sea merchant shipping fleet to provide for the reconstruction of such a fleet.

I think all of us would have supported such a motion at the time. Even though Fianna Fáil has been in power for more than seven years since and has been in a position to honour the commitments made by Deputy John Wilson in his Private Members' motion and Deputy Charles Haughey on the steps of Leinster House surrounded by uniformed officers of Irish Shipping, it is only now that it is moving to honour those commitments.

This Bill falls short of what Fianna Fáil demanded in 1985. Whereas Fianna Fáil sought six weeks salary for each year of service, the Bill only provides for three weeks salary for each year of service. The pledge to restore pensions to their pre-liquidation level has been quietly forgotten about while the promise to reconstitute a national deep-sea merchant fleet has been abandoned.

While the Bill deals only with compensation for the workers affected, it again raises the circumstances behind the decision to liquidate Irish Shipping. Needless to say, if the company had not been wound up there would be no necessity for this Bill. The decision to liquidate Irish Shipping was an act of political and financial cowardice by the Fine Gael-Labour Government, a decision for which the Minister, Deputy Mitchell, must take primary responsibility. Having failed to exercise proper supervision over Irish Shipping and ensure that those in charge were competent to run the company, the Government panicked when the proper course should have been to seek to sort out the company's problems and put it on a sound basis.

It is probably fair to say that the financial problems which faced Aer Lingus in recent years were no greater than those which faced Irish Shipping ten years ago. Irish Shipping was scuttled but Aer Lingus was saved through the co-operation of the management and the workforce, albeit after a great deal of pain, suffering and sacrifice on the part of the workforce. The decision to scrap Irish Shipping robbed this country of the best part of its deep sea fleet, an action from which we have yet to recover. This still leaves Ireland vulnerable and potentially isolated in the event of a major international conflict when other countries' merchant shipping can be requisitioned for military purposes, as we saw at the time of the conflicts in the Falklands and the Gulf.

There are fundamental questions about Irish Shipping which have never been answered. Why has the unnecessary liquidation of Irish Shipping cost the Irish taxpayer over £120 million? While I appreciate that the Minister has to leave the House on Government business. I would be very pleased, even at this late stage, if the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, Deputy O'Shea, would give the House some answers to these questions. Why has the liquidation cost the taxpayer £120 million? Why has it cost more to liquidate Irish Shipping than it would have cost to keep it going? Why was Irish Shipping liquidated in the first place when it could have been rescued and restored to profitability by 1987? Who or what was responsible for turning a consistently profitable company into a massive lossmaker over a period of 18 months between 1982 and 1984? Why were so many people appointed to the board who had so little knowledge of shipping? Were the needs of political patronage put above the commercial needs of the company? Why did the company enter into long term chartering arrangements in a business which, as the Minister has admitted, is cyclical, and at a time when freight prices were dropping? Why has nobody ever been called to account for the serious indictment in the report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on semi-State bodies of 3 April, 1985 which stated:

The committee indicts:

(i) the board of the company with failure to keep itself informed of the chartering developments;

(ii) the senior executives involved in the chartering agreements with acting without authority and apparently independently of the board,

and

(iii) the Department of Transport and Power and the Department of Finance with failure to adequately monitor the situation.

When will the taxpayers be given an explanation for the scandal of the Irish Spruce which cost twice as much to build at Verolme as it would have cost to build elsewhere, which cost the taxpayer £60 million to get out of the leasing arrangements and to pay for maintenance at Marseilles and which was eventually sold for a mere £3.75 million? Why, at the height of the company's financial troubles, were some of its senior executives swanning around major maritime cities on seemingly bottomless expense accounts? This country lost £120 million and its strategic shipping fleet with the liquidation of Irish Shipping. In no other democratic State would these serious questions remain unanswered years later.

In a low key style the Minister for the Marine managed to present this Bill today as though it were concerned with nothing except the remedying of a long term injustice to a group of workers who served this State well. That, of course, is true and, though it may be ten years after the event, it is welcome. Nevertheless it is wrong to present the Bill as though there was nothing involved except the overdue compensation of the workers affected. The country has suffered not just in the financial terms I have explained but in terms of its vulnerability and isolation. It was a disastrous decision. It is simply unconscionable that we should be here six years after an Oireachtas committee indicted the board, executives and the Department in the manner that they did and we still do not have any answers.

The Minister introduced the Bill with some feeling, as I suppose one might expect of a Member representing maritime constituency and responsible for maritime affairs. Through his Minister of State I would ask him to respond to the protest outside Leinster House yesterday by employees of another shipping company, the B & I, who have major issues to confront and are anxious to have an interview with the Minister to put forward their point of view. Although it would be unfair to say the Minister has refused to meet them, nonetheless he has not met them. I would ask him to agree to meet them because there are issues confronting that company which require attention now. If nothing else, we can learn from the experience of Irish Shipping when the Government was panicked into taking a decision that had such far reaching implications for this island nation. I hope the legitimate grievances of the B & I employees can be met head on by the Minister, that he will agree to meet them at an early date and seek to resolve the issues about which they are concerned.

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, your office has advised me that amendment No. 7 I had tabled is out of order because it would impose a charge on the State. I sought to do no more in this amendment that give expression to the wishes of former Deputy John Wilson in that motion which the entire Fianna Fáil Party supported in Private Members' Business in 1985 when they sought compensation for the workers concerned. I think Deputy Kemmy and others would agree the compensation sought was more or less in line with redundancy settlements at that time and would not have been out of line. I am sorry my amendment has been ruled out of order because it is important for the reason I have stated.

In regard to the committee being established to monitor the assessment of applications, it is regrettable there is no representative of the former workers involved in it, nor any representation of the committee that has campaigned so assiduously over the past ten years. It is important that there be some element of representation on that committee. My amendment seeks to have somebody nominated by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions to participate in that process. I hope the Minister will find it possible to take that amendment on board.

I welcome the Bill which is overdue. Its provisions undo a terrible injustice to a small number of public servants who served this State well. I regret it has taken ten years to do so and that, in the interim, we have lost so much in the interest of the State.

Mr. E. Ryan

I should like to share my time with Deputies Mulvihill and Kemmy.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am sure that is agreeable.

Mr. E. Ryan

I congratulate the Minister and his predecessor, Deputy Woods, on the introduction of this Bill. As the Minister said himself, it was with a mixed feeling of sadness and satisfaction that he viewed the introduction of this Bill, sadness at the demise of Irish Shipping Limited in an island nation like ours which no longer has a merchant shipping fleet. As the House will know, Irish Shipping Limited was founded in 1941 for the importation of grain during World War II. Throughout its 43 year existence a strike had never occurred in the company. Between the years 1960 and 1979 the company made a profit over 16 consecutive years, again an excellent record for a semi-State company.

As some other Members have said, perhaps the liquidation of Irish Shipping Limited should never have happened. Certainly many questions remain unanswered. For example, why did it cost the State so much to wrap it up? With the benefit of hindsight one might conclude that the State could easily have kept the company going at much less cost to the Exchequer than was incurred in its liquidation.

I am saddened that Irish Shipping no longer exists. As Deputy Rabbitte said, the cost has been enormous and many questions remain unanswered about the manner in which this company came to an end. The liquidation was carried out in a very hasty manner. If a little more imagination had been used at the time the company could have survived and would probably be trading profitably today. It was a sad chapter in Irish maritime history.

I am pleased that the former workforce is being compensated, and I compliment them on the dignified way in which they lobbied over the years. They always made a strong case concerning the injustices done to them. When I met them on many occasions I was embarrassed that they still had not been paid. I am pleased that approximately 300 former employees will be compensated.

It is crazy that Ireland, as an island nation, does not have a stronger shipping fleet. Many people here have a seafaring background and when seafaring is in one's blood it is very difficult to get away from it. Seafaring goes back through many generations. My wife is a member of a seafaring family going back many generations, indeed she has often threatened to go to sea because of my job.

I hope when the committee is set up there will be no feet dragging. I hope the work will be carried out efficiently and quickly because the former employees have waited long enough. I sincerely hope they do not have to write to the Minister seeking final settlements. The money is available and the former workers should get it as soon as possible.

I congratulate the Minister on this matter being finally resolved, though perhaps not to everybody's satisfaction. It has not been a good chapter for anybody including politicians but it is water under the bridge at this stage. The matter was badly handled. If common sense had prevailed at the time many of the problems could have been resolved and Irish Shipping could be up and running today and trading profitably.

I welcome the Bill and I am pleased that the former employees will be finally compensated.

Mr. Mulvihill

I welcome the Bill and thank the Minister for the diligence of his Department in compiling it. I pay tribute to my colleague the Minister of State at the Department of the Marine, Deputy Gerry O'Sullivan. While in Opposition he continually raised the question of Irish Shipping workers and has now ensured that they will receive proper compensation for the many years of service given to Irish Shipping.

The history of Irish Shipping is a proud one although it has been marred by tragedy. The pride of seeing an Irish flag fleet operating on the oceans of the world during and after the Second World War was an indication for many that Ireland as a country had come of age. It was against this proud background that Irish Shipping went into liquidation in 1984. Whatever about the legalities relating to liquidation and liabilities the treatment meted to Irish Shipping workers was not only wrong, it was immoral. Seamen were left stranded in foreign ports without any money. When they got back home they were told they would receive only a pittance for the many years of service given to the company. Little consideration was given to their dedication to the company and the country, particularly during the war years. It is to the credit of the former workers and their families many of whom are present, that they never gave up the fight. I have no doubt the former workers, including those in my home town of Cobh, will welcome and acknowledge the decision by the Government to allow for ex gratia payments totalling £3.5 million.

I welcome the provision in section 7 which allows for payment to the next of kin of former workers who died since the closure of the company. This again shows the diligence of the Minister and the Minister of State in ensuring that justice is done and seen to be done.

I am heartened that the Bill is receiving a speedy passage through the Houses of the Oireachtas. The former workers have waited long enough and it is proper that we do not prolong their wait. In this regard I ask the Minister to ensure that the interdepartmental committee will be established quickly to ensure prompt assessment and processing of claims. As Deputy Rabbitte requested, I also ask the Minister to include a member of the workers' group, who has fought earnestly for the payment of compensation, on the board.

Mr. Kemmy

Like my colleague Deputy Mulvihill I welcome the Bill. It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. It is more important to recognise a wrong and to take remedial action even now — better late than never.

Irish Shipping has a painful history. There is no point dwelling on it as it is outside the scope of the Bill but I shall refer to it in passing. Ten years have elapsed since the company went into liquidation in 1984. During those sad and bitter years many of the former employees were left stranded on foreign shores without even the courtesy of a communication from the company to tell them what was happening. As Deputy Rabbitte said it is a reflection on all of us — himself included — the trade union movement and all parties in this House that Irish Shipping was liquidated in that way. It is easy for him to do a Pontius Pilate act and wash his hands of it and to blame the Government of the day. I listened very carefully to his good contribution. He is excellent at rattling off criticisms but he did not utter one word about what he would have done. It is very easy to come into this House and criticise — that is the job of the Opposition. It is even more important when dealing with an intelligent workforce, such as Irish Shipping, to say what you would have done in those circumstances. I do not deny it was a national débâcle which was painful for all of us.

The background to the shipping business has changed in the past two decades. It is a volatile, cut throat business taken over by magnates. The Greek shipping magnates find it difficult to compete, many of whom have suffered huge losses throughout the world. It is also subject to booms and slumps, to change in trading in the commercial life of the world. The recession has adversely affected shipping and Irish Shipping would not have been immune to those changes during the past ten years. There have also been changes in the crewing of those ships. They introduced cheap labour, seamen who had no rights and no trade unions to stand by them. This has been the direction in which the shipping industry has been moving in the past two decades.

There were other domestic factors. Irish Shipping management was grossly inefficient and it was bad management that brought about the collapse of the company. The Government of the day, the Fine Gael and Labour Coalition, was responsible to some degree and is not immune from criticism. Deputy Rabbitte was wrong to castigate Irish Shipping without outlining the background to the collapse of the company, as I have tried. He made no constructive suggestions on how the survival of the company could have been ensured. It is facile to blame the Government for this. Would it be different if the company had been in private hands — there is nothing to stop Irish companies from operating a shipping company, and the Spanish fleet is controlled by private companies — but Deputy Rabbitte said nothing about that? It is wrong to lay the entire blame at the door of Government and the public sector. That glosses over the failure of Irish fishing to survive on the world market in the past 70 years. We have no deep-sea fishing fleet. It is worth questioning why shipping and fishing have failed but nobody suggests that we must look to ourselves for the reasons.

I too wish that the terms of compensation could be improved and that they be increased to £7 million instead of £3.5 million. Former Irish Shipping workers who contacted my office since the details of this Bill were announced welcome this measure. They are very pleased that after a decade of neglect the wrong that was done to them is being recognised. We wronged the employees of the former Irish Shipping Limited but now we are trying to correct those wrongs. However, nothing can ever correct the pain, trauma and the suffering of those workers who were treated so shabbily ten years ago. My Limerick office is close to the harbour where seamen have worked from for centuries. I often think of the men who died when their ships were bombed and torpedoed during the last World War. They risked their lives to keep the lines of supply open so that we would have the wherewithal to survive. I pay tribute to all the brave seamen. My friend Dr. John de Courcy Ireland continuously upbraids me for our lack of support for shipping and fishing. I am pleased that former Irish Shipping staff in Limerick have recognised that we are trying to correct the wrong and to compensate them. We are making a belated attempt to do right.

I welcome the provision for making payments to the next of kin, a very decent and civilised gesture. Ten years is a long time to have to wait. Most of the workers who lost their jobs have not worked since and will never work again.

We must learn a lesson from the liquidation of Irish Shipping Limited and, above all we must ensure that it will never happen again to a State company. We must try to ensure that staff are never treated in that uncivilised manner and that management is held fully accountable for the public moneys invested in a company. That did not happen in this case.

The standard of Irish management is very poor and if we were depending on such management there would be no future for the country. Most of the multinationals have foreign management. That is a reflection on us. The standard of management in the private and public service must improve and we have an obligation to taxpayers to ensure that this happens so as to ensure the viability and success of companies.

This Bill is minute step in acknowledging that ten years ago we wronged the workers of Irish Shipping Limited. I wish everybody who receives compensation well.

Mrs. Owen

I feel driven to make a brief contribution to this debate. I warmly welcome the Bill. In 1984 I was part of a small group of Fine Gael and Labour Government backbenchers who were angered at the manner in which it proved necessary to treat the employees of the then Irish Shipping Company. I participated in many heated backroom debates to try to find a way that workers would not be left without compensation when they lost their jobs. These highly skilled workers could sell Ireland anywhere and acted as ambassadors when their ships were docked in ports around the world. The age profile of people who had spent years in the company meant that they would not find another job. It was one of the saddest times in my political career when I had to listen to people in their fifties who had given a lifetime to the company being made redundant but without compensation that would allow them to live in decency while they looked for another job. A number of these highly skilled people managed to find work. A captain or senior officer on a ship is a valuable human resource for other shipping companies and I am glad that some of the people who visited my clinics and lobbied Members subsequently found work. Many of them had to suffer very difficult years and literally devoted themselves full-time to the work of lobbying Government.

I recognise that at the time the Government could not for very valid reasons pay compensation to the ex-employees of Irish Shipping Limited. I am very glad that this matter is being dealt with. I understand that previous Ministers, and the Minister, were involved in putting this package together. At the time of the collapse Fianna Fáil in Opposition danced merry hell around us. The party tabled Private Members' motions calling on the Government to pay the compensation. It was entitled to do so because it had a very good case. In fact, I was trying to make the same case from the Government backbenches. The Fianna Fáil Party has been in Government in one from or another since 1987 and it could have righted the wrong sooner. Will the Minister explain the reason that it did not immediately set about doing this in 1987? However, the compensation is better late than never.

Some people may not receive compensation. I ask the Minister to be more specific and indicate the number and categories of ex-employees who will not benefit under the legislation and explain the reasons for this. It is welcome that money will be paid to the families of deceased employees. This is fair and just. The sums these people will receive are not large because the value of money has decreased and their lifestyles may have changed dramatically since they lost their jobs. Because they were not paid compensation at the time their families may have been denied opportunities. I do not believe that we can fully compensate them for the trauma and the difficulties they encountered.

The Minister of State opposite was not a Member of the House at that time but this was an issue which touched people's hearts. It is interesting how some issues catch the imagination. The fate of Irish Shipping workers was such an issue. In programme after programme employees of the company outlined the difficulties that they were encountering and gained the sympathy of the public.

The demise of Irish Shipping highlighted the difficulties being encountered by the shipping industry. When does the Minister hope to receive the report that he is commissioning on the economic evaluation of the sector? The case was made strongly at the time that with the demise of Irish Shipping we were gradually losing our capacity on the seas. As the only island nation in the European Union we still have not managed to make a strong case at EU level for proper funding and assistance for this sector. It would be no harm if in carrying out this economic evaluation the Minister drew on the experience of some of the people who are being helped in this legislation. I am sure they could provide assistance and point to where the difficulties arose in Irish Shipping. A number of issues led to the demise of the company and that is part of the reason it was so complex. The Minister said that this economic evaluation will address the case for additional support measures conductive to an efficient and competitive shipping industry. We must make a strong case at European Union level because we are cut off from the rest of Europe by the Irish Sea.

I was very disappointed at the outcome of the recent Council of Fisheries Ministers at which the Minister for the Marine, Deputy Andrews, was defeated 11:1 on the question of fishing rights in our waters. I hope the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications, Deputy Cowen, who will make the case at Council level will have more success than his colleague.

If one looks at the minutes and reports produced by the Joint Committee on Commercial State-Sponsored Bodies one will see that one Deputy Albert Reynolds was a member of the committee and participated in the questioning of the board of Irish Shipping and officials of the Department. It is clear from some of the questions he asked that he was unhappy. Fianna Fáil made political capital out of this issue. It is sweet justice that he is in charge of the Government introducing this Bill.

I welcome the Bill. I hope we have learned our lesson and that we will not see a repeat. There is an onus on the Government to ensure that workers who have paid their taxes and contributions which entitle them to certain benefits receive just compensation. Even though I was an angry backbencher at the time I was not successful in convincing the Government that payments should be made. I am glad they will be made now.

Mr. N. Ahern

I welcome the Bill. The history of Irish Shipping has been outlined by other speakers. During the war the people owed a debt of gratitude to and had great respect for the workers of the company. At one time it was a shining example for other semi-State companies — I am a former employee of a semi-State company — but due to the cyclical nature of the business it ran into difficulties.

It is hard to see how the decision, with which I disagreed, to put the company into liquidation was made in 1984. I do not have the final figures but I am sure if the company was given funds at the time it would have battled its way out of its difficulties.

The staff of the company were shabbily treated. Those who work for the State or semi-State companies will not get rich on what they earn and do not share in the fruits when the company is going well. What they do have is security. It was not the fault of the workers that the company found itself in trouble. Justice is being done finally.

It is interesting to reflect on the views now being expressed by the parties which formed the Government who made the decision to put the company into liquidation. The Labour Party object to privatisation and favour the provision of support for state companies. I was amused that Deputy Owen chastised Fianna Fáil for taking so long to clean up the mess. I accept that Fianna Fáil gave a solemn commitment to provide compensation for the workers, that we have been in Government since 1987 and that it has taken far too long to honour this commitment. I am glad that it is being kept.

We owe the Minister a debt of gratitude. As he mentioned this morning, his predecessors, in particular Deputy Woods, played a role in drafting the legislation. The workers also deserve our praise for continuing to lobby to ensure that the matter is resolved. There must have been times when they were discouraged at the lack of progress. While the Department of the Marine appeared to be helpful, the Department of Finance was blamed for adopting an unyielding approach.

It is good that in the last few years there has been a more sympathetic approach by the Department of Finance which has led to the successful conclusion of this matter. I am glad it is expected to pass all Stages of the Bill today. I just hope that when the committee is set up there will be a minimum of bureaucracy and that matters will be dealt with speedily and efficiently because the workers have put up with enough delay.

One of the fears expressed by the Department of Finance and others was that the Irish Shipping workers were not the only ones who were not well looked after. Other people were not too well treated during the rough times of the late 1980s. I hope the same sympathy will be shown to these much smaller groups, in some cases only a couple of workers, now that the Irish Shipping workers have managed to drive this agreement through.

I was somewhat surprised at the Minister's reference this morning to the increase in the tonnage of Irish shipping in recent years. Deputy Rabbitte referred to the B & I line. It is not a case of history repeating itself as the old jobs and functions of workers in B & I seem to be dying slowly whereas the demise of Irish Shipping came sharply and quickly. However, there are workers in the B & I line who feel they are not being well treated and that the guarantees given to them by the Government at the time their company was privatised are not being honoured — I have not seen these guarantees, but the workers claim that they got guarantees.

The Minister represents a coastal area and B & I line operates out of Dublin port, not Dún Laoghaire. In this respect the Minister should be seen to give a hearing to everybody and take care that no charge is made against him that he is looking after his own patch rather than the overall good. I do not suggest that charge could be laid against him, but some workers talk in those terms. I hope the Minister will meet the workers and try to protect their jobs because, although the company in which they are now employed is a very successful company, it seems that the traditional routes serviced by B & I are not now its main priority.

In general I welcome the Bill and the speed with which it is going through the House after so many years of waiting and I hope the payments will be made to the workers as quickly as possible.

Minister of State at the Department of the Marine (Mr. O'Shea)

Go raibh maith agat, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Deputies for their contribution to the debate. I appreciate the concern shown by many Deputies over the years, and particularly in recent months, for the former employees of Irish Shipping Limited. The debate has been constructive and there has been general welcome for the legislation. I propose now to deal with some of the points raised and give clarification where possible.

The events leading to the liquidation of Irish Shipping related to the chartering agreements entered into by Irish Shipping Limited which caused financial difficulties. That and the question of the cost to the Exchequer are separate matters, discussion of which is not appropriate on this Bill which deals with the position of the former employees of Irish Shipping.

Yesterday's protest at B & I was raised. This is a matter for the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications rather than the Minister for the Marine. It would, therefore, be inappropriate for me to comment.

The level of compensation, at three weeks pay per year of service, has been agreed by the workers' committee. My understanding is that only five people will be affected by the ceiling of £50,000 and that these five are senior executives. The three weeks' pay per year of service should be balanced against the public sector guidelines of two to two and a half weeks' pay per year of service.

Because of the nature of seafarers' employment it is not possible to state the exact number of people who lost their jobs as a result of the liquidation of Irish Shipping. It is estimated at about 320 people. Seafaring staff traditionally sign a separate crewing agreement for each voyage and the liquidator contested the eligibility of some seafarers for redundancy lump sum payments. Forty-nine seafarers successfully appealed to the Employment Appeals Tribunal. More than 300 people, including 49 seafarers, were paid redundancy lump sums.

As to whether the establishment of an interdepartmental committee is just another layer of bureaucracy which might involve additional State expenditure, the purpose of the committee is to enable the Minister to have the benefit of advice and expertise of people with experience in the areas of tax redundancy and finance when deciding on applications. Rather than creating an unwanted layer of bureaucracy this should facilitate the efficient and speedy processing of applications. There will be no additional Exchequer expenditure involved.

Other questions that were raised related to how employees should go about obtaining payment and how soon payment would be made. Former employees must make application for payment. As soon as this Bill becomes law, the Department of the Marine will indicate, through newspaper advertising and the workers' committee, the manner in which applications should be made. All applications will be investigated by a committee specifically established for that purpose and payment will be made as soon as possible following investigation of the applications.

It was also suggested that an ICTU nominee should be appointed to the inter-departmental committee. However, the committee does not purport to represent interest groups in the shipping sector. Its purpose is to enable the Minister to avail of the expertise of persons in the tax, finance and redundancy areas so that applications can be dealt with as efficiently as possible. If the ICTU were to be allowed to nominate a person to serve on the committee then the liquidator or the Chamber of Shipping or IBEC would also have to be invited to do so. An enlarged committee would, if anything, delay investigation of applications.

In regard to whether a ceiling will be applied for reckonable pay or whether payments will be subject to deductions for tax purposes, unlike payments under the Redundancy Payments Act, 1967, a ceiling will not apply to reckonable pay under this Bill. Payments are subject to deductions at current rates and they compare favourably with those which applied at the time of the liquidation. Only about 25 per cent of those concerned are expected to be liable for tax.

In regard to the length of time which has elapsed between the liquidation and the introduction of the Bill, it was necessary to formulate an arrangement acceptable to the former employees which at the same time ensuring that the State was not exposed to other claims. This Bill provides specifically for former employees of Irish Shipping Limited. As to why those with less than two years' service are being excluded from the scope of the Bill, it was considered desirable to impose some minimum service requirements. The two year requirement specified for payment of redundancy lump sums was a recognisable statutory operated arrangement and was, accordingly, adopted. Approximately ten persons are likely to be excluded because of this arrangement.

Questions were raised about the comments of the Minister for the Marine this morning in relation to the evaluation of the shipping industry, which will be carried out in the coming months.

Those are the points I noted from the debate this morning. This Bill marks the formal ending of an era in our maritime and economic history. We are being enabled to acknowledge in a concrete manner the service to our community by the staff of Irish Shipping Limited. We are, in effect, paying our last respects to an old order and I am speaking for the Minister for the Marine and my colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of the Marine, in this regard.

However, as one era ends another begins and we must look to the future. We must gear our shipping sector and our economy generally to meet the challenges posed by the new order as represented by the developments in the European Union and beyond. I look forward to working with all interested parties to ensure that Irish ship owners and the State benefit and prosper from these developments.

Question put and agreed to.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

In accordance with the Order of the House today we will proceed to Committee Stage.

Dáil Éireann debate - Thursday, 21 Apr 1994

Irish Shipping Limited (Payment of Former Employees) Bill, 1994: Second Stage.

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 21 Apr 1994