Vol. 448 No. 3
2 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the detailed instructions issued to members of his Government on taking office; if he will have a copy of the instructions placed in the Dáil Library; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1498/95]
I presume the Deputy is referring to the Government Procedures Instructions — copies of which were circulated to Ministers, Ministers of State Barrett and Rabbitte and the Attorney General at the first meeting of the Government on 15 December last.
The instructions were last revised in 1983. They are currently being updated to take account of changes in procedures in the interim. These include the proposals dealing with conflict of interest in the Ethics in Public Office Bill.
When the instructions have been updated following the enactment of this Bill, it is proposed to publish them, in line with the commitment given in the Government's Programme for Renewal.
I used the same wording that Minister of State Rabbitte used in Opposition so that is where I got the instructions from. Will it be in order for Ministers to be involved in the management of companies or for Ministers to have shares in companies or has the Taoiseach instructed them to have trustees appointed to manage shares they might have in private companies?
It is not in order for Ministers to be involved in the management of companies. It is not, however, required of them to dispose of their shares.
I am glad to hear it.
Does the Taoiseach not think it would be preferable if Ministers had to appoint trustees to manage shares they might have? Would it be in order, for example, for Ministers to hold shares in companies that might be the subject of applications for citizenship?
I think it would be desirable for Ministers to appoint trustees to manage their shareholdings wherever possible and appropriate. I am not aware of any incidents to which the Deputy is referring in regard to Ministers holding shares in companies applying for passports. If the Deputy has such information she should make it available to me.
I am simply asking the Taoiseach about his policy position. Is it acceptable that Ministers could be involved in AGMs and EGMs of companies as shareholders?
I do not believe Ministers should take an active part in the management of companies, and attendance at EGMs and AGMs would come within that compass.
Does the Taoiseach intend to ask his Ministers not to play such a role in companies in which they might have shares?
I have indicated to Ministers that I would not wish them to be involved in any way in situations which might involve them in a possible conflict of interests. The number of situations where that can arise are many and, to some degree, it is sensible to allow Ministers to assess that for themselves. In general I wish that they would not engage in the type of activities described by the Deputy.
Do the instructions issued to Ministers in relation to conflicts of interest also apply to programme managers?
There should be no conflict of interest for programme managers either. That is very important and is being dealt with in the ethics Bill. In the meantime I will be ensuring that the standards laid down in the ethics Bill with regard to the avoidance of conflicts of interest are adhered to by all programme managers and other senior Government appointees or those who have an influence on policy.
Am I to understand from what the Taoiseach has just said that, in addition to the requirements proposed in the Ethics in Public Office Bill that conflicts of interest should be notified, the Taoiseach is bringing the matter further and warning all Ministers in his Cabinet that they are not to get involved in such situations?
Yes. I stress it is for the Government to regulate its own internal proceedings. I am most anxious to ensure that no Government member would engage in anything that would be perceived as involving a conflict of interest. It is not possible to provide in advance, in theory or on some a priori grounds, for every conceivable circumstance where a conflict of interests might arise. It is, therefore, wise that Ministers should use their own good judgment to ensure that the general principle of avoidance of conflicts of interest is adhered to.
Deputy Harney, I need finality on this question. There are many others and time for questions to the Taoiseach today is strictly limited.
It is a very important matter and Government members raised this many times over the last couple of months. What is the sanction for a Minister in breach of what the Taoiseach wishes him to do in relation to this matter?
As anybody in politics knows, the ultimate sanction for a Minister or, indeed, anybody acting in a manner that is contrary to the wishes of his colleagues is that he ceases to function in his job. Intermediate steps can be taken where the breach is of a minor character and this, again, is a matter of judgment. In our anxiety to make regulations of all kinds to govern everything, we must recognise that no set of regulations will cover every conceivable situation and there needs to be an area for judgment. In the final analysis, this House, in choosing the person in whom it reposes its confidence as Taoiseach, is selecting such a person on the basis of ability to exercise judgment.
