Vol. 449 No. 8
3 Ms O'Donnell asked the Minister for Health the official figures for Irish women who had abortions in the United Kingdom for each of the last three years; the source of those figures; the agencies by whom the women were referred where applicable; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4667/95]
(Limerick East): The following table sets out the numbers of women resident in Ireland who had pregnancy terminations in Britain in 1991, 1992, and 1993. No information is available as yet for 1994. The information is supplied by the Office of Population Censuses and Surveys in the United Kingdom: 1991, 4152; 1992, 4254; 1993, 4399.
No breakdown is available on the source of referral to the United Kingdom.
I thank the Minister for the statistics. Will the Minister agree it is vital that we have accurate statistics on this area to inform our policy making, particularly as the Minister has indicated that he has an objective to reduce the high numbers of women who travel to England for abortions? Will he agree also that in order to truly evaluate increased and improved counselling services it would be necessary to have accurate statistics? Is the Minister aware that the Irish Family Planning Association clinics have been referring women to Britain for assessment for abortion? Is he aware, consequently, that the Bill before the House will criminalise that referral service?
Let us await the debate on the Bill.
(Limerick East): On the question of the statistics, it is important one should know precisely what is happening before formulating policy. It is my policy to attempt to reduce the need for many women to travel to the United Kingdom for abortions. I will deal with the way and means we will do that in the course of the debate on the Bill. Information available from the United Kingdom and available research shows that the majority of women with Irish addresses who go to the United Kingdom for abortions do not consult with any medical professional, be it family doctor or advice agency, prior to travelling. For example, a study of Irish women seeking abortions was undertaken in Liverpool University in 1991. A representative sample was taken of 53 women. Four of those women were referred by pregnancy advice agencies, five were referred by a general practitioner and the others relied on family, friends or advertisements in British magazines and made the arrangements themselves. Those figures are interesting. There is some research available also in the universities to which I have access. That shows that a considerable number of women who went to the United Kingdom and who were counselled subsequently decided against abortion. In the context of Irish women deciding against abortion having been counselled in the United Kingdom, the evidence varies but between 14 per cent and 25 per cent decided not to go ahead with the abortion.The statistics I gave in reply to the original question deal with the information available from the Office of Population Censuses and Surveys in the United Kingdom. They would not include Irish women who use English addresses or relatives of friends. They simply refer to the number of women who used Irish addresses when they attended termination clinics in England.
Is the Minister disputing the fact that the Irish Family Planning Association refers women for assessment? Is he denying those figures?Has the Minister's Department any interest in the welfare of women who travel to England for abortions or has the State more of an interest in the welfare and safety of live cattle than in Irish women who are, by law, required to travel out of the jurisdiction to have abortions?
(Limerick East): Much colourful language has been used in the past 24 hours concerning this topic and we have more colourful language here today. Second Stage of the Bill commences tomorrow and I will be making a major statement on its contents. Hopefully, Committee Stage will take place next week and I will deal with the issues the Deputy has raised. I will not, however, deal with Committee Stage points here on some kind of cherry picking basis to suit the Deputy's agenda.
I dispute the Minister's stance on this. Surely it is legitimate for me to put down priority questions to the Minister in relation to an area of public policy currently before the House. I am not aware of any ruling which the Chair has made to the contrary and I would like the Chair to indicate whether I am in order in putting these questions. The Minister is trying to gloss over the finer details of the Bill and ignore the statistics of the Irish Family Planning Association.
(Limerick East): I have answered the question precisely. The Deputy asked for the official figures for each of three years, the source of the figures, the agencies involved — I did not have that information — and if I would make a statement on that matter. I have done that and I have given her additional information also. There will be a full debate on this tomorrow. We cannot have a debate now in two minutes.
The Minister has not responded to my specific question as to whether he is aware that Irish Family Planning Association clinics refer women for assessment for terminations. Is his Department aware of this or is it turning a blind eye on this? What is the Department's stance? The association has been providing this service for the past two years and has not been stopped from doing so by the courts or the Government.
This is a particular matter concerning a special service.I have facilitated the Deputy in the usual manner in dealing with priority questions and we are all mindful of the fact that there will be a debate tomorrow when Members will be able to expound their views on this delicate subject.
