Vol. 450 No. 3
7 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the Government's attitude to the Ulster Unionist Party document entitled A Practical Approach to Problem Solving in Northern Ireland; and the plans, if any, he has to seek direct talks with that party. [4367/95]
8 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the Government's attitude to the DUP document entitled Formula for Political Progress; and the plans, if any, he has to seek direct talks with the DUP. [4368/95]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 8 together.
The Framework Document represents the shared understanding on the part of the Irish and British Governments on what might constitute an acceptable outcome from future political talks. It is designed to give impetus, focus and direction to a process of three-strand negotiations towards a political agreement.
As I have emphasised before, however, the document is a framework for discussion and not a blueprint to be imposed. Both Governments believe that we have got right the complex of balances across the many core issues within and between the three relationships. At the same time, we are open to the ideas and arguments of anyone who believes otherwise. In that spirit, I welcome the recent publication by the UUP of their policy document A Practical Approach to Problem Solving in Northern Ireland and the DUP Formula for Political Progress. Both are contributions to the process of debate leading to negotiations and signal a willingness on the part of the parties concerned to engage in dialogue. I have placed the two documents in the Oireachtas Library and I believe that, like the Framework Document, they deserve careful consideration, representing as they do the views of the political representatives of a substantial majority of the Unionist community.
I would like to take this opportunity to emphasise, lest there be any doubt, that endorsement of the Framework Document would not be a precondition to entering talks about it, although, as with all political dialogue, it should be a precondition that people would be prepared to listen as well as talk. I should add that I am greatly encouraged by a recent poll which showed that a majority of UUP and DUP supporters believe that their parties should take part in talks on the Framework Document.
Since the publication of the Framework Document has the Taoiseach had any contacts with representatives of the DUP or the Official Unionist Party?
I have not had any particular contact with them since the publication of the document.
Has the Taoiseach plans to meet representatives of those parties — I can understand why the Government was reluctant in advance of its publication to issue a public invitation — but has he any intention of issuing an invitation now that the document has been published?
The answer is the same as that to Deputy Jim Mitchell's question — I do not see any point in making public statements about the issuance of invitations unless I was satisfied that those invitations would be accepted. It is better to pursue a pattern of informal, private contacts. The Deputy asked a question. I answered but I am really not prepared to go any further than that.
Was the Taoiseach encouraged by the statement on Friday evening last of Mr. John Taylor when, on behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, he said they would welcome talks with the Irish Government?
I thought that was a very significant and positive statement, showing a realistic appraisal of the position on the part of Mr. John Taylor. Of course, it is a matter for the Unionist parties to come to conclusions on this issue. I am absolutely convinced that it is in the interests of Unionists, and of unionism, that its representatives engage in constructive dialogue with other parties on this island and, of course, also with British political parties. Constructive dialogue is the way to solve problems. In the Framework Document we are moving to a complete redefinition of the type of issue with which we are dealing, moving away from traditional concepts of territorial nationalism towards new ways of defining nationality, not mutually exclusive but mutually supportive, when it will not be a question of one flag or another but devising circumstances in which it will be possible for people, with different traditions and nationalities, to share the same land without either feeling lessened or less, in their integrity or that of their views.
In the Framework Document we are moving towards a redefinition of the whole issue and it is worthwhile for Unionists to enter into discussions with other parties in that kind of atmosphere. It is possible for all sides to achieve positive gains here. By redefining the problem we have moved it away from being a zero-sum game.
I share the Taoiseach's view on the balance of the complex nature of the Framework Document. The balance is right and it is vitally important that we encourage the Unionists to take part in talks. Does the Taoiseach consider that at this stage it is necessary to be proactive rather than reactive regarding the talks and the Framework Document, particularly phases two and three? Does he consider that rather than sending invitations we should make the effort to reach out to the Unionists and all elements within society, if not directly the Unionist Party as a first step, at least some elements within Unionist society such as the business community or others in the North?
I strongly agree with that view, that is what we should be doing. The main question is how public one should be about one's proactivity. There are times when it is appropriate to be proactive in private rather than in public on the basis that more can be achieved in that way. It is a question of political judgment as to where, when and how various approaches should be made.
We found a visit to their headquarters very useful.
I compliment the Deputy on his visit to their headquarters. It was a good move on his part and on the part of the Unionists. The Deputy was following in the distinguished steps of others, including myself.
We are glad to hear that.
Some would feel more at home than others.
I am concerned about the Irish Government's tacit agreement with the position of the British Government, particularly the Northern Ireland Secretary of State when he equates with equal status the Framework Document and any document made available over the weekend prior to the publication of the Framework Document. As head of the Irish Government will the Taoiseach indicate the status of the Framework Document vis-à-vis other party documents which were made available shortly before the publication of the Framework Document having regard to the fact that it represents an intergovernmental position and took two years to produce?
Obviously an intergovernmental position has a status different from that of a party position. Nobody would suggest otherwise. I certainly was not doing so. It is very important, and I hope the Deputy would not suggest otherwise, that if Unionist parties go to the trouble of publishing a policy document, we in this House should read it, it should be lodged in the Dáil Library so that all Members of the House might read it and that we should treat the positive ideas in it with respect, which is what I did. That is the right approach. We are never going to reach the position where we will have dialogue with Unionists if we constantly remind ourselves that their documents are merely documents of a political party or parties whereas the Framework Document is a Government document. Their documents may be only documents from a political party, but they are documents from a political party or parties which represent a large number of people and their views must be taken into account if we are to solve the problem.
The Taoiseach speaks of respect but he does not have to lecture me about respecting other traditions on this island. Does he believe that the Northern Ireland Secretary of State equated respect to the Framework Document when on the night of its publication he suggested to a Unionist audience that in the event of their not liking any of it, they should not be concerned and that whatever they brought forward themselves would do? He said that on television.
If we spend our time looking for something by which we will be offended, we will probably find it.
I am not doing that, I am talking about mutual respect.
That is not the approach we should adopt in this matter. We should be looking at the positive dimension of any statements made whether by the Unionist community, the Nationalist parties, Sinn Féin or others. There are many positive ideas in the Framework Document. It addresses very difficult questions which all parties in different respects at various times have avoided. They are now on the table put there by two sovereign Governments. Any documents published subsequently by other parties will have to address the issues the two Governments have put on the table. That is a major step forward and that is what I mean when I say that the Framework Document is a challenge. We must also give the other parties involved the self confidence to come forward with their ideas and the recognition that their ideas may have validity just as much as there is validity in the Government's ideas. That is what I am trying to do, it is the balance I am trying to strike.
I readily accept that the Taoiseach may prefer to deal separately with the question I wish to raise. Does the Taoiseach consider that it is somewhat inconsistent with the Framework Document and the peace process for the British Government to be renewing at this sensitive time the Prevention of Terrorism Act which involves the right to search, to detain people and so on? If the Taoiseach considers that to be incongruous will he bring it to the attention of his counterpart, the British Prime Minister? I understand the sensitivity of the question.
The Deputy is injecting new matter to the debate.
It is a separate question which I do not wish to deal with now.
