Mary Harney
Question:1 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will meet with the British Prime Minister in view of the continuing failure of the British Government and Sinn Féin to agree terms for commencing direct talks. [7511/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Northern Ireland Peace Process.
Mary Harney
Question:2 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach the manner in which he intends to advance the Peace Process in Northern Ireland. [7561/95]
Mary Harney
Question:3 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will extend an invitation to talks to the Progressive Unionist Party and the Ulster Democratic Party. [7564/95]
Mary Harney
Question:4 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting with the Northern Secretary on 12 April 1995; his attitude to the British Government-Sinn Féin impasse; and the manner in which he proposes to advance the Peace Process in Northern Ireland. [7565/95]
Bertie Ahern
Question:5 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his discussion with the Northern Ireland Secretary of State, Sir Patrick Mayhew, en marge the CBI Dinner on 12 April 1995. [7570/95]
Bertie Ahern
Question:6 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if the Government plans to engage in political dialogue with the Northern parties on the Framework Document and other matters after Easter. [7572/95]
Bertie Ahern
Question:7 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach when he plans to open talks with the Northern political parties on the Strand 2 aspects of the Framework Document. [7712/95]
Bertie Ahern
Question:8 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if he plans to meet the British Prime Minister in the near future to break the impasse in talks between Sinn Féin and the British Government. [7713/95]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 8, inclusive, together.
The primary objective of both the Irish and British Governments, at this stage of the peace process, is to help prepare the way for comprehensive dialogue on the future of Northern Ireland with and between all the relevant parties. That is what the situation clearly demands and I believe it is what the vast majority of the peoples of these two islands want. The past two weeks have seen very encouraging progress towards the achievement of this objective. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland has initiated a process of bilateral talks with the political parties there and already the three largest parties — the UUP, the DUP and the SDLP — have engaged in direct dialogue with each other. The way has now been cleared for the commencement of talks at ministerial level between the British Government and Sinn Féin. On behalf of the Irish Government, I have announced that I will shortly be inviting all the political parties in Northern Ireland, including Sinn Féin, the UDP and the PUP, to participate in bilateral talks with this Government on an open agenda.
Nobody could deny the enormity of the challenges ahead. However, taken together, I believe that these positive developments to which I have referred show that the peace process is moving forward and for our part the Government will be doing everything in our power to ensure the continuation of this forward momentum.
I have already welcomed the announcement regarding the commencement of direct talks between British Government Ministers and Sinn Féin. The Government believes it is essential that all political parties in Northern Ireland, including Sinn Féin. are involved at an early date in the talks process leading to a negotiated settlement. I took the opportunity of my meeting with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in Belfast on 12 April to reinforce that point. We have been actively involved in dialogue with both the British Government and Sinn Féin in clearing the way for yesterday's commencement of ministerial discussions.
Will the Taoiseach say what involvement the Government had in ending the stalemate yesterday?
The Government has been involved not only yesterday but over the weeks in which this argument has been going on between Sinn Féin and the British Government about the precise basis for the talks and at various points during that period we have suggested particular formulae for breaking the deadlock. We sought to explain the position of one side to the other and we sought in general to break down what was an understandable barrier of mistrust considering the position of both sides. I am glad a succession of efforts by many people involved with the Government over many weeks, together with the very important and principal efforts of the two parties directly involved, helped in breaking the deadlock and leading to yesterday's good news.
I welcome the progress made during the Easter recess, particularly yesterday. Lest we get into further difficulties, not between the Taoiseach and me but between others, which is already evident to a certain extent, does the Taoiseach see any real difference of substance between the exploratory talks which the British Government will enter into with Sinn Féin and the bilateral political talks which have commenced and will continue with the other political parties?
There is obviously some difference of agenda between the two talks processes in that there are certain items that would be proper to one set of discussions that do not arise in regard to the other set. I do not need to be specific about that; I am sure the Deputy understands exactly what I am referring to. There are also many common elements of the agenda in the two talks processes and I hope that over time the two will merge.
Will the Taoiseach agree that a twin-track approach will be avoided only if every party comes to the talks on the same basis and if all parties unequivocally and permanently renounce violence? Does he agree that is the way to achieve comprehensive dialogue?
That is a reasonable statement with which I cannot disagree. Obviously in the exploratory phase of discussions with parties that were previously associated with violence, there will be a need to tease out certain issues in that regard so as to establish that the conditions mentioned in the Deputy's question are met by all. I am confident that if we can continue in the same painstaking but constructive spirit that has been shown by all those involved in recent weeks, we will be able to reach that point.
The Taoiseach outlined that he has been involved in moving the process forward. Am I correct in understanding that Sinn Féin can raise all issues in the Framework Document in the exploratory talks in the same way that any other political party can raise its various agenda issues in the bilateral talks?
In practice. I think Sinn Féin can raise any issue it wishes in those discussions. That includes all issues that arise in the Framework Document and that has been well established. It was not the area where difficulties lay until now which prevented the talks starting. I see no difficulty in that regard.
The Taoiseach said earlier that he was going to invite all the parties to talks on the basis of an open agenda. In the case of talks with the former paramilitaries, will the Government have at the top of the agenda the question of the decommissioning of arms in their possession?
I do not know that we will be putting agenda items in any particular order because we regard the agenda as an open one and I do not believe that question will arise in the form posed by the Deputy.
Will the Taoiseach indicate if it would be correct to assume that in the exploratory talks with Sinn Féin he is confirming that it is the Government's view that every issue can be discussed, as is the case in the bilateral discussions? In the talks with the Irish Government under Strand II will he indicate that he will recognise Sinn Féin in a similar manner to all other political parties and that the only difference in the exploratory talks, the bilateral talks and the framework talks, the commencement of which I welcome, is that the issue of security will be the only item excluded? With the exception of the security issue, the Taoiseach appears to be fully recognising Sinn Féin, as does the British Government, except that it is putting a different label on it.
Security issues are not excluded from any of the talks. I believe that parties which have had no association with violence at any stage in their history would wish to raise security-related matters and would be perfectly entitled to do so in discussions with either the British Government or the Irish Government. I would be happy to receive views on security issues from the SDLP or the Unionist parties. The issue that arises with regard to some parties is the decommissioning of arms. As the Deputy is no doubt aware, the majority of parties in Northern Ireland representing the majority of people there have not at any time been associated with armed organisations. In respect of the minority of parties that have been associated with armed organisations in the past, the issue of how those arms can be put out of commission is a relevant consideration which must and will be raised in the appropriate way.
If we are to reach a position where everyone sitting around the table has the same mandate, solely related to the number of people who voted for them and not in respect of any arms that may be held by those associated with them, we must make progress towards taking the arms in question out of commission. That has been understood certainly in regard to participation in this House and in deliberations concerning the formation of a Government. It is a very important principle of parity of esteem in democratic dialogue that everybody should approach discussions on the sole basis of their electoral mandate and not by reference to any implied pressure they can exert because of the existence of arms in the hands of associated organisations. In order to achieve that position of parity of esteem those arms must be taken out of commission. That is a reasonable issue, not the only one, which will be raised in discussions with those parties to whom that consideration applies.
I am pleased with what the Taoiseach has said, but I was disappointed with his earlier response to me. Will he agree that the most important thing we need to do now in the context of Northern Ireland is to build confidence between the different communities if we are to reach a settlement acceptable to unionism and nationalism? In that process will he agree that the issue of arms is central to the question of confidence and that the fact that so many illegal arms are still in the hands of the paramilitaries is a major obstacle to the creation of confidence? Does he not see the role of his Government and the British Government as one of seeking to build confidence? I ask him to put at the top of his agenda the issue of arms when he meets the parties associated with the former paramilitaries.
The Government's position on paramilitary arms is so well known that there is not any particular need to ask me to reiterate it every second day.
I want the Taoiseach to raise it with the people who matter.
I have made it clear that is and will remain our position and we will do everything in our power to ensure that it will be achieved. However, I do not want to be in a position where by simply repeating that point I create any psychological obstacles on the part of people who may feel defensive about this issue from engaging in dialogue on this and all the other relevant issues. Many other issues are relevant and I would not wish to say that one item was central. All these items are important. Without progress on the arms issue there will not be progress on other issues. Equally, for there to be progress on the arms issue there are many other issues on which there must be progress. That is the balanced way in which the Government is approaching this matter and I believe it is also the balanced manner in which the British Government is approaching it, despite some criticisms that may have been directed at it. I believe it is the manner in which Sinn Féin is approaching it.
In recent days I have been very struck particularly by the way in which Sinn Féin is seeking not just to represent its point of view, but is genuinely seeking to understand the fears and worries of people who might traditionally have been antagonistic towards it. That is a very good sign. In recent days we have seen an effort by all those involved to do what is essential, namely, to understand and express the view of their antagonists rather than simply repeat their own view.
I agree with what the Taoiseach has said. During the last Question Time before the Easter recess we said that a small issue appeared to be holding up talks. I have said on many occasions that the decommissioning of arms must be the first item on the agenda and I am glad that is the line the Taoiseach took yesterday. It is clear from Britain's handling of the position that the British consider it necessary to have an exploratory phase of talks and the Taoiseach has clarified the issue and indicated that he does not consider this to be a matter of any great substance. Will the Taoiseach agree that all the talks that will take place with Sinn Féin or others will be exploratory until we move to round-table talks? Is that not the real issue? Having listened to some of the statements today, I believe that difficulties could arise which do not exist at present. The decommissioning of arms is the central issue and it must be dealt with as the number one issue on the agenda. Making a distinction between exploratory talks and bilateral talks involves an unnecessary use of the dictionary once again.
We both agree on that.
Could we in this House at least agree that what we are talking about are talks, the decommissioning of arms being the first item on the agenda and, second, that all of these talks are exploratory since we cannot have any round table discussion until they have been finalised?
Deputy Bertie Ahern and I could agree — being responsible for leading our respective parties — that the use of the dictionary in politics is a recipe for difficulty. We should not become too hung up on semantic issues. Indeed the less emphasis placed on the definition of the difference between, say, "exploratory", "substantive" and so on the better. Obviously, certain issues have to be dealt with on the part of certain parties that do not have to be dealt with by others. I agree with Deputy Harney that, from the point of view of building confidence on the other side, so to speak, certain issues must be dealt with fairly early on to establish that the political will does exist. Once that has been done, we should not erect too many semantic barriers between one set of discussions and another. With the sort of good will I have heard expressed in recent days by all concerned, in a practical way, we can and will move forward but the road is a long one.
Has the Taoiseach made any arrangements vis-à-vis the issuing of invitations under Strand II to the political parties in the North? Can he give us any further information on the matter?
No, I have not done so yet. I have not set a date by which I should do so but I have given an indication that we will do it. We would hope to do so quite soon.