Vol. 453 No. 2
2 Mr. Browne (Wexford) asked the Minister for the Marine the total number of Spanish fishing boats arrested by the Irish Navy from 1 January 1995, to date; the number of court cases and the total amount collected in fines; and his views on whether the fines are adequate to deter the continued illegal fishing by Spanish boats. [9150/95]
Of the 250 vessels boarded since 1 January a total of 27 have been detained in Irish waters. Twelve of these were Spanish registered vessels and eight of the ten UK registered vessels and three of the Irish registered vessels were of Spanish origin. In other words, 23 of the 27 vessels were either Spanish registered or Spanish owned. Prosecutions have been initiated in respect of 26 of the boats detained and seven cases have been dealt with so far by the courts. The total fines imposed in the seven cases heard so far amount to £220,500. The gear and catch were automatically forfeited as well, with provision in certain circumstances for these to be bought back.
Our penalties are the highest in Europe and specifically designed to deter illegal fishing and reflect Ireland's determination to ensure that all vessels fishing in Irish waters comply with fishing regulations. In addition to the increased financial deterrents, the Irish fisheries surveillance capability has been significantly enhanced with the coming into service of the two new Casa aircraft operated by the Air Corps. Ironically, those were built by the Spanish. The aerial surveillance has already substantially contributed to more focused and effective deployment of the Naval Service vessels in fisheries surveillance at sea. I look forward to even further enhancement of our control and enforcement capability through the additional financial resources for Ireland agreed at the Fisheries Council last December and currently being negotiated with Brussels.
Ireland has been and will remain at the forefront in the EU in seeking tighter control and enforcement in the management and conservation of fish stocks. Policy will continue to be firmly geared to cracking down on illegal fishing activity irrespective of the nationality of those involved.
(Wexford): It is obvious from the Minister's reply that the majority of the boats detained have a Spanish involvement. He stated that 23 are either Spanish owned or have a flag of convenience from Spain. There is widespread anger among Irish fishermen and workers at the blatant manner in which the Spanish boats are flouting the law and stealing fish stocks. Will the Minister accept that these illegal operators do not regard the fines imposed by Irish courts as significant? There is a view among Irish fishermen that these illegal operators are treating such fines as laughable. Will the Minister consider reviewing the fines? While he has stated they are the highest in Europe, the point made by Deputy Deasy is relevant——
The courts are too lenient.
(Wexford):——that the Judiciary are not imposing the maximum fine. It is important that the message go out from this House that they consider imposing the maximum fine. The Minister informed us yesterday at the meeting on the Estimates that £250,000 was the maximum fine, yet for the seven cases to which the Minister referred the total fine was only £220,000 — approximately £30,000 in each case. Will the Minister consider introducing a minimum fine of £1 million or higher to stop the illegal operators taking fish from Irish waters?
We should confiscate the trawlers.
At this time the only supplementary questions that may be put are from the Deputies who tabled the Priority Questions.
We appreciate that, a Cheann Comhairle, but we are being stymied.
It is not open to me to comment on judicial decisions in relation to individual cases. Obviously, there are differences in the scale of offences. The Naval Service is correctly detaining people for breaches of the law but the degree of seriousness is not the same in every case. There is a big difference between somebody who has failed to fill in a log book and somebody who is loaded with illegal fish. One has to leave to the discretion of judges the application of the law relative to the seriousness of the crime. I have not carried out an analysis of whether one could conclude that the courts are being too lenient but I undertake to carry out such an analysis. I would not be prepared to stand up in the House and condemn the Judiciary without knowing the facts. Clearly the severity of the fine has to relate to the severity of the crime.
We do have heavy penalties and one ought not to ignore the part of my reply which related to the seizure of gear and so on because that is often worth more than the fine. We are determined to put a stop to it. We have made significant progress this year. The Naval Service has been efficient following a slow start due to extremely bad weather in the earlier part of the year. The level of detentions is high.
We need to tighten up on other issues. It has been said to me that if a number of trawlers are fishing in an area and one is arrested the necessity for the Naval Service to escort them to port — which may be 150 miles away — sends out a message to the remaining trawlers that there is no surveillance in that area. There is a potential danger in that. I want to examine the law on that matter. Is it essential for the Naval Service to sail back to Galway Bay from 200 miles west? It takes a long time and the offending boat will tend to slow down deliberately. I have not yet got an answer to that question but I intend to look into it.
(Wexford): I appreciate the Minister has no right to interfere with the Judiciary. Will he consider making £250,000 a minimum fine which the Judiciary could impose on such illegal operators? Will he consider encouraging the Department to do a Canadian-type operation on the illegal operators in Irish waters and let the EU member states deal with the problem from there?
When Deputy Paddy Sheehan made that proposal, Fianna Fáil opposed it and said it was too big.
There are problems with mandatory sentencing which are much wider. If the Deputy is suggesting that we have a range of mandatory fines for different levels of offences that may be worth examining. Because there are so many types of degrees of offence I do not know whether it would work. I am not sure what the Deputy means by following Canada's example. Certainly Canada raised the profile of the issue — doing something which in international law is illegal — by boarding ships in international waters. We are not concerned with international waters but with our own waters.
(Wexford): It worked.
We will continue to board them more and more. When I have some reasonable statistics for the year I will examine the question of the degree and severity of sentencing and whether it matches the crime. It is a serious crime from an international point of view.
