Bertie Ahern
Question:1 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if he has sent out formal invitations for talks on the Framework Document to the northern parties. [9282/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Bilateral Talks.
Rory O'Hanlon
Question:2 Dr. O'Hanlon asked the Taoiseach when the talks under Strand II of the peace process will commence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9405/95]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.
I issued invitations on Friday last to the leaders of all the relevant political parties in Northern Ireland to participate in bilateral talks with the Irish Government. The parties concerned are the Ulster Unionist Party, the SDLP, the Democratic Unionist Party, Sinn Féin, the Alliance Party, the Ulster Democratic Party and the Progressive Unionist Party.
I sincerely hope that there will be a positive response from all parties to my invitation. I appeal, in particular, to the two main Unionist parties and to the loyalist representatives to consider carefully the basis on which the Government proposes these talks will take place.
First, the agenda will be a fully open one. I have been careful not to define or predetermine the agenda for any of the bilateral talks. In a sincerely meant effort to build trust and goodwill, I have proposed in my invitations that the first bilateral meeting with each party should perhaps be devoted predominantly to a discussion on the policies, views and concerns of that party.
Second, my invitations to the Northern Ireland parties are intended to build on the present unique opportunity to shape a durable political settlement based on an informed understanding of what is needed to accommodate honourably the Nationalist and Unionist traditions on this island. That is the overwhelming desire of all people, North and South. In the search for agreement, I want to be sure that the Irish Government's role will be as constructive and productive as possible. Thus, the bilateral talks are intended to help us and the Northern Ireland parties through gaining a first-hand and fully up-to-date knowledge of our respective positions.
Third, I have not set a timeframe for responses to my invitations. It is important to afford each party any necessary time and space to consider carefully its position. I would hope that everyone will respect that, since some parties may wish to undertake an internal consultative process. At the same time, I would naturally wish to have definitive replies as soon as possible so that mutually convenient arrangements could be set in train for the commencement of bilateral talks.
Finally, these bilateral talks are intended to contribute to the process of healing and reconciliation. I know that there are genuine concerns and fears on all sides and that there are enormous legacies of hurt and mistrust to be overcome. However, the priceless gift of peace is now challenging everyone, particularly political leaders, to address these issues in a determined, but understanding, way. My invitations to the Northern Ireland parties are part of wider efforts to assist this process.
I welcome the fact that the Taoiseach issued the invitations last Friday. Three weeks ago he told me he was about to issue them. After visiting the North I found out he had not done so. Last Wednesday he told me he would not issue the invitations for some time, yet he issued them on Friday. What happened between Wednesday and Friday to bring about this change in tactics?
As I explained to the House, I have been engaging in informal contact with the parties to ascertain when would be the best time to issue the invitations in order to get the maximum number of acceptances. I did not reach any firm conclusion from these contacts. After taking some advice, I decided last Friday that I could find myself in the position of postponing the issuing of the invitations indefinitely. There is nothing significant about the timing one way or the other. I acted on the decision I made on Friday. The Deputy's questions are helpful in this matter. If they remind me of issues like this they perform a useful function. I will not say that the Deputy's questions did not have anything to do with this. Opposition questions have an effect on what the Government does as indeed they ought.
I am not making an issue of this but I was taken aback by the change in position. The Taoiseach was right to do what he did because, as I stated a week ago, if he continued to wait we would never issue the invitations. Fianna Fáil wishes the talks process well. Strand II which deals with the involvement of the Irish Government could be the key to moving the process forward. Issues such as the decommissioning of arms, prisoners and so on under Strand I could prove difficult particularly as we are coming into the marching season. I support Strand II even if some people reject it. The British Government does not appear to have a strategy on Strand I. In his attempt to move Strand II forward will the Taoiseach urge the British Government to put forward a framework for the talks? At a meeting I had recently with Sinn Féin and the smaller loyalist parties, I was told that when they questioned the British Government about where the process is leading, there was no reply. The Taoiseach could usefully try to show that there is a clear agenda and that his efforts are a path leading somewhere. Our party chairman met Unionists last week and they said the same thing. It would be useful if the Taoiseach had a coherent policy to put before them.
That is a long and interesting question. It is not the case that the British Government did not put forward proposals on Strand I. On the day the Joint Framework Document drawn up by the Irish and British Governments was published the British Government published a document which was exclusively concerned with Strand I. It referred to frameworks and sought to get discussions going with the parties in Northern Ireland on Strand I matters. However, it did not get very far. It issued invitations to these discussions on 14 April but to date the number of discussions which has taken place is limited. I am not sure what the Deputy or his informants are driving at when they say they want more information from the British Government about the process as distinct from the proposals in their framework document.
If there was something identifiable which the British Government could usefully be doing in Strand I but which it is not doing I would be willing to urge them to do so within the context of the Anglo-Irish Agreement with the aid and assistance of the Tánaiste. It is important to bear in mind that Strand I of the process is internal to Northern Ireland and the Irish Government has not involved itself in it. One of the quid pro quos for our involvement in Strand II is that we have not got involved in Strand I. There are limits, therefore, to what I can do. It is a matter for the British Government and the parties in Northern Ireland to drive that part of the process forward.
Furthermore, we should understand the limits of what we can do in Strand II. We cannot come to any easy solution in Strand II unless there is a parallel arrangement in Strand I. There has to be a body within Northern Ireland to which the Strand II arrangements can relate and that body can only emerge from Strand I. I hope I have answered the Deputy's questions.
I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. I am aware that he cannot do anything under Strand I. The point being made by people on both sides of the divide is that the British Government is using the process in which they are engaged to move very slowly. It is no secret that the British Government is making it known through its sources that this could be a very long process. In order to ensure participation by all parties in Strand II and to generate support for the Taoiseach's efforts to ensure success, there should be a more coherent plan on how to move matters forward. Already the smaller Unionist parties and Sinn Féin——
Is the Deputy talking about a timetable?
I am talking about an indication from both Governments on how we can move forward in a meaningful way.
That is what the framework documents are about.
As the Taoiseach continually reminds us, the smaller Unionist parties will not accept this as it is — they have their own suggestions and ideas. The recent meetings with Minister Ancram will not move the process forward. I support the Taoiseach's efforts to move ahead with the talks.
The Chair has allowed much discussion in respect of questions on this matter and they must come to finality.
It would be very helpful if the Taoiseach could show that the timescale will not be that long.
I understand the Deputy's concern but if either Government tries to be too prescriptive and says this is the way certain things will be done, etc. it will give the parties an excuse to say "we do not agree with that and, therefore, we will not talk". In the final analysis much of the work in finding a settlement will have to be done by the parties in Northern Ireland. There are many things which the parties in Northern Ireland must do for themselves and which cannot be done for them by the British or Irish Governments. This is why I particularly welcomed the initial talks between the Unionists and the SDLP; this represented a major breakthrough. Those parties have not spoken to one another at a formal level for many years. This was ludicrous given that people in countries as far away as America and Europe were talking with other people with whom they might not necessarily agree about what should be done in Northern Ireland. Yet the main parties representing the two communities in Northern Ireland were not engaged in formal discussions. I understand that they are now having very fruitful discussions.
I would not get involved in all of the criticisms voiced about this matter over the weekend, but insufficient attention has been paid to the significance of the talks between the Unionists and the SDLP and, perhaps, undue significance has been attached to discussions with other parties. This undue significance may not necessarily be helpful to those other parties in dealing with certain difficult issues as it puts them under pressure to come up with answers every second day, something they cannot do. It would be more appropriate if we paid more attention to and elevated the significance of the talks which are taking place between the Unionists and the SDLP. These are the most important talks now taking place and they may create a climate in which the tremendous efforts being made by the Governments will come to fruition. Without the building of a solid middle ground in Northern Ireland between people of moderate opinion on both sides it will be very difficult to put the solution together. We have to bring the people at either end of the spectrum along with us but we cannot ignore the need to build a solid middle ground.
When does the Taoiseach think he will have the first round of meetings with the parties?
I do not know. It depends on when they say they want to meet me. If one of the parties indicates that it would like to meet me tomorrow I will do so but some of them may not be able to make a decision for some time. I do not want to get into a situation — this is one of the reasons I was slow in issuing the invitation — where people put the focus on a particular party and ask why it has not responded to the invitation from the Irish Government. I am happy to give parties as much time as they need to decide whether they want to respond and how they want to respond.
I am not prescribing the agenda or saying that this is a discussion in the context of Strand II. I am merely saying, "let us have a discussion on your agenda first and then we can discuss the Government's agenda." I am inviting them to come to me to discuss their agenda. The important factor is not the basis on which the talks are taking place, the framework within which they are taking place, the parameters of the discussion, the shape of the agenda or any of the artificial procedural and semantical issues which are usually given enormous significance in discussions; rather it is that the discussions take place, which I hope will be achieved reasonably soon.