Mary Harney
Question:5 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach when it is intended to hold a referendum on Cabinet confidentiality. [13425/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Cabinet Confidentiality.
The Government will consider this matter shortly and an announcement will be made in the normal way.
Given the change in the composition of the Supreme Court, has the Government given any consideration to introducing an ordinary Bill in relation to Cabinet confidentiality with a view to testing its constitutionality rather than necessarily going down the road of a constitutional referendum?
I have not considered it in great depth; it is something we could consider. On the other hand it is a hazardous business to make gambles on the basis of changes in the composition of the Supreme Court as to what decisions judges will make. In this House we should make our own decisions rather than postulate or speculate about possible changes in the position of the Supreme Court in some future case, given that the previous judicial decision on this subject was clear and that this Government was formed on the basis of a commitment that it would promote a change in the Constitution to allow some relaxation of Cabinet confidentiality. Having said that, I regard the suggestion by the Deputy as a constructive and helpful one and it is one that has been made in other areas of constitutional law as well. I will consider it carefully and ask the Attorney General to advise me on it.
I wish to raise two issues. Other Governments issue a communiqué after every Cabinet meeting of the issues discussed, rather than briefing as we do here. For example, the French Government, which would not be considered the most open on all issues, gives a formal communiqué. Second, historians have argued extensively, in the recent past, that minutes of Cabinet meetings, rather than decisions, should be kept even if the 30 year rule was extended. I would like to hear the Taoiseach's views on those two issues.
It is a very interesting question and I have given it some thought. I think it would prolong Cabinet meetings enormously if full minutes of what everybody said at them were kept. What would happen is that people would say things for the record so that it would show they said them, even though they did not necessarily want to press them very hard. Literally, on every decision, people would recite their departmental position for the record.
Then the historians could not be blamed.
One of the characteristics of Government in this country in recent times — certainly it is a characteristic of this Government and the previous Government — is that we are able to get through the business quite expeditiously and make the decisions that have to be made. The case is well made for decisions and we make them. The change the Deputy is putting up for discussion would not be helpful in that regard.
The other question raised by the Deputy is also an interesting one, I have not thought so much about it. There is, as the Deputy said, a system whereby there is a formal briefing, after each Cabinet meeting, of the press on the decisions that can be announced. There is no recorded document. That particular item does not appear in the paper the following day. There is no record of it other than in the Cabinet minutes which are restricted as to their circulation. I think we could consider the Deputy's suggestion. I would like to think more carefully about its implications. One of the things we have been doing — I hope in saying this I am not breaching Cabinet confidentiality — is where a decision is being proposed, this is one of the initiatives I took since becoming Taoiseach, in addition to asking that the decision appear on the front of the memorandum that a draft press statement would be appended later at the back of the memorandum so that one would see both the decision and the way it was to be presented publicly when one was making the decision. That would facilitate, possibly, the adoption of the Deputy's proposal because already we have gone some distance towards it.
What happened at the meeting this morning? Was it a good meeting?
We had our usual very good meeting this morning.
I am quite satisfied that the Government is working well because the Labour Party members seem to have been working so hard that they cannot make it here today. Will the Taoiseach agree that if it were possible to deal with this matter by legislation, rather than by constitutional amendment, it would be preferable, bearing in mind that if we alter the Constitution to make, say, Ministers amenable to tribunals and committees of the House, we may cement in place, by inference, all the other problems attached to the ruling of the Supreme Court such as historical records not being available and Minister's memoirs and diaries never being published? Would it not be desirable in those circumstances to view, if possible, the decision as one which should be dealt with by legislation in the first instance? Many people believe — I think I speak for lawyers from every shade of political opinion — that the rule on Cabinet confidentiality can be invoked with malice but ignored with impunity and, therefore, that it should not be part of our law.
As I said already to Deputy Harney, I had not given much thought to that proposal. We had been and are proceeding on the basis of a constitutional amendment. There is, as put by both Deputy Harney and Deputy McDowell, a very serious and sensible proposal that should be looked at. I expect we will be looking at this matter generally, quite soon. I will be asking, in addition to the processing of the proposal already in hand, that the suggestion made by the two Deputies be considered very carefully. It deserves careful consideration. If that approach can achieve the certainty we are looking for, possibly by reference subsequent to enactment to the court for validation prior to coming into force, that is something that might well have a lot of merit in it. I can go no further than this. I did not have notice of this suggestion and can do no more than say that I think it is worth while.
That disposes of questions to the Taoiseach for today. I have gone seven minutes beyond the appropriate time. I am proceeding to deal with questions nominated for priority.