Noel Ahern
Question:13 Mr. N. Ahern asked the Minister for the Environment his views in relation to the report entitled Analysis of Social Housing Need commissioned by him from the ESRI. [5064/95]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Housing Report.
The report of the ESRI study of housing needs, which was commissioned by my Department, is now at final draft stage and will be published in the near future. Comment on the report would be premature, pending its completion and publication.
What is wrong? Why the delay? On what date was this report commissioned and what was the target date at that time? Newspaper reports as far back as last February referred to the report as being in draft form and one had the impression it would be available by St. Patrick's Day. Who has been sitting on the report? The Minister of State has informed us it is at "final draft stage". Does that mean that she did not like what she got and sent it back to be changed?
The Minister was asked some time ago about the usual assessment of homelessness and she replied she was waiting for the ESRI report. The delay in finalising this report is a device to cover up and excuse not going ahead with the assessment of homelessness.
The Minister looks puzzled.
The Deputy has a strange line of thinking.
Many Fianna Fáil members would agree with the Minister on that point.
The ESRI, which is a reputable organisation, was commissioned to carry out this report. I look forward to its publication which I expect will be by the end of this year. It is completed and I hope it will be published soon. It is a major report and I will remind the Deputy of its extent. The objectives of the research were broad and included the nature of housing need; the extent, urgency, acuteness and duration of that need; the most appropriate and efficient response; the procedures in local authorities; the trends in social housing needs; and, the promotion of a better informed public debate. In effect, everything to do with housing need was considered in the research. It will be useful for us to have that body of work in order to improve and develop housing policy.
I presume the Deputy is aware that the assessment for housing need will be carried out in March 1996. The assessment for homeless people will be carried out in a way which will give us, as far as is possible, accurate information. Inevitably, it will be difficult for us to get a 100 per cent accurate figure for homelessness because of its nature and the mobility of the homeless.
I expect a more accurate picture from local authorities with regard to this assessment. It is important to get an accurate picture. The last assessment was carried out in 1993 and the figure was disputed by the voluntary sector which came up with its own figures. Its figures, of their nature, cannot be accurate as they were largely based on the experience of the voluntary bodies and anecdotal evidence.
I want to ensure that the assessment of housing need in relation to homelessness is as accurate as possible. I will require local authorities to have a thorough examination of the situation in the field. I have treated homelessness seriously and the review of the plan for social housing which we published earlier in the year enabled us to meet our responsibilities in regard to the increased programme of house building, increased measures with regard to the capital assistance schemes and the other benefits, and the provision of voluntary bodies.
The newspaper report in February which gave the impression the report would be finished in a number of weeks quoted an ESRI official. With regard to the assessment of the homeless the Minister refers to the local authorities giving proper data. Would it not be best to have an independent body, such as the ESRI, do the next assessment rather than have the local authorities do it?
The Minister mentioned that some of the voluntary bodies were unhappy with the data the last time and unhappy with the definition of homelessness. The local authorities did not all interpret the 1988 Act in the proper way. Would it not be better to have an independent body carry out the assessment?
I am concerned about some aspects of the report. It is indicated that in future allocations will have to be based on the new realities of the housing situation. It seems to be suggested that traditional cases might be sidelined and those who would be housed in the future would be today's emergency, for example, whoever arrived off the boat or train on any given morning. The Department has insisted that the local authorities do away with the two years residency clause whereby one had to have been living in Dublin for two years to get a house. The suggestion now is that whoever arrived on the train on any given morning will get the best house available. That would be a kick in the teeth to those who have been on the waiting list for many years.
The Deputy should not believe everything he reads in the newspapers. I do not.
There was a time when the Minister did.
Not even the ESRI suggests it should take over the job of assessing housing need.
I am suggesting it to the Minister.
Local authorities have a lot of experience in that regard. The real issue is to ensure that local authorities are liaising with the voluntary sector and, thereby, getting the full information they need to make the assessment.
With regard to its commitment to housing the Government can be judged on its results. There has been a considerable increase in commitment to and funding for the housing programme. There is much activity around the country and it is addressing a real housing need built up over some time. The previous Government also made a commitment on which we have expanded. There is a backlog on housing lists. The needs have to be clearly defined but we have to keep in mind the genuine needs that have to be addressed.
I assure the Deputy we will be responsible in relation to our obligations in providing for housing need. This report is a research document: it is not what determines housing policy of itself as that responsibility is mine and the Department's. Housing policy will be informed and enhanced by having this research at our disposal. I am glad the ESRI has been able to carry out such an important task.
I am not satisfied the Minister of State sufficiently dealt with Deputy Noel Ahern's supplementary question on local authorities, the gathering of information and defining homelessness. I hope to have another opportunity to address that.
The Minister took pride in the Government's record in relation to homelessness and I would not try to dent that pride. Does the Minister accept that more comprehensive integrated policy measures need to be put in place to target the problem of homelessness? This set of measures needs to take account of preventative measures, immediate response measures on a 24 hour basis and well managed emergency accommodation. Does the Minister accept that those elements as part of an integrated package for homelessness are vital to address the problem? Does she accept they are not in place at present and what is she prepared to do about it in the short to medium term?
Our ability to produce the review earlier in the year was an important factor in addressing some of the major concerns articulated by the voluntary sector. I pay tribute to that sector's provision for homeless people as it has done tremendous work. I have completed a tour of all the hostels in the Dublin region, where the bulk of homeless people are, and I am impressed by the work carried out by the various voluntary bodies but the need for greater co-ordination is clear and it would be welcomed by the voluntary sector. Considerable public funding is spent on provision for the homeless and rightly so. In European terms our record is quite good and we must keep improving it. Co-ordination is necessary to ensure we are targeting and meeting that need in the most efficient and desirable way. I am taking the matter seriously.
A final——
I am sorry, Deputy, two other Deputies have been offering. Deputy Batt O'Keeffe may ask a concluding question.
The Minister put great emphasis on the fact that she obtained all her statistical data from local authorities but it is likely they will not have the complete data. What action does she propose to take so that she will have a much more integrated approach with the health boards, for instance, who are likely to have far more statistical data on homelessness than local authorities or the Department of Social Welfare? It would be unwise of her to indicate to this House that the local authorities are the fount of all knowledge on this issue.
I do not see local authorities as the fount of all wisdom. They are being asked to gather the information which is available from health boards and the voluntary sector to make sure the assessment is carried out in an effective way.
There is no liaison.
Please Deputy, the time is up.
Anyone who works in the area knows there is a good deal of liaison between local authorities and health boards. I am ensuring that local authorities, when they carry out their assessments, will gather the information available to them.
That concludes questions for today.
May I postpone my questions until the next day?