Vol. 459 No. 7
6 Mr. Martin asked the Minister for Education the plans, if any, she has to establish a Regional Board of Education, with specific responsibility for schools in the Gaeltachtaí and for Gael-scoileanna and Gaelcholáistí throughout the country, as part of the overall structure proposed in the White Paper on Education. [18711/95]
The Government has a definite and positive policy towards the Irish language and the Gaeltacht. Education boards will be obliged to implement this policy.
Education boards will have advantages when dealing with the Irish language, for example, their location in proximity to the schools and to the communities which they will serve and each board will be empowered to establish committees and-or specialist groups to advise and assist it, as appropriate, in the implementation of policy. This makes it clear that education boards will be empowered to service Gaeltacht and all-Irish schools properly.
Furthermore, the plans and operations of the education boards will be subject to the review and scrutiny of the Minister and Department of Education. Any board which is not making proper provision for the teaching of Irish can be statutorily directed to do so. It is my policy that proper provision is made for the Irish language in all schools. I would be concerned that the establishment of a separate board for Gaeltacht and All-Irish schools would diminish the status of the Irish language in the areas and activities of the other boards and would diminish the effectiveness of the teaching of Irish in other schools. I do not want to ghettoise the teaching of Irish or Irish-medium schools.
For these reasons I do not propose to establish a separate board for Gaeltacht and all-Irish schools. However, I intend to have discussions with the interested parties in order to explore the ways in which the special needs of Irish medium and Gaeltacht schools can be met in the context of the regional boards. I am more than prepared to develop and consider proposals which will address the particular concerns of the organisations which have sought a special board for Irish-medium schools.
Does the Minister understand the degree of scepticism among those involved in teaching the 32,000 children in all-Irish schools both inside and outside Gaeltacht areas? They are extremely sceptical of the Department's capacity to provide a proper service to enable them carry out their work effectively. One can understand this scepticism when the leagan Gaeilge of the White Paper on Education has not yet been published. The Minister for Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht simultaneously produced the White Paper on broadcasting in Irish and English. The word "Gaeltacht" is not even mentioned in the White Paper on Education. Therefore, one can understand the demand by the various bodies for the provision of a special education board to service special schools that teach through the medium of Irish. Does the Minister understand the scepticism that exists?
There are Gaeltacht schools in five of the education board regions, Donegal, Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Waterford and Meath. There are 124 recognised all-Irish schools in more than 32 counties. If Gaeltacht and all-Irish schools were under the remit of one board the philosophy underpinning the need for an education board would be lost. A region catering for Gaeltacht and all-Irish schools would not have geographical integrity. Efficient and effective administration of the service would be difficult to achieve and would be no different from the remote administration provided by the Department of Education, which is the subject of much criticism for its delivery of the education system. Awareness and sensitivity to local needs would be difficult to achieve. The concerns of the children in the Cois Fharraige school might be different from those in Scoil Lorcáin in my constituency. The contribution of local communities is important to the richness of the education board and if we do not involve them in the education system it might become expensive and time consuming to effectively co-ordinate the boards.
Do phléamar an cheist seo sa Dáil an tseachtain seo caite leis na hAirí Higgins agus Carey. Dúirt siad-san go raibh siad an-bháiúil ar fad don rún seo, agus go raibh siad i bhfábhar boird réigiúnda speisialta do scoileanna sa Ghaeltacht agus do na Gaelscoileanna. An bhféadfá a rá liom ar phlé tú an cheist seo leis an Aire Ó Huigín agus an tAire Stáit, Carey?
Tá mé ag caint leis an Aire Ó Huigín an t-am ar fad. Beidh mé i Seanad Éireann anocht. Tá mé ag ceapadh go mbeidh an cluiche peile ar siúl an t-am céanna ach beidh mé ag caint i Private Members' Time faoin gceist seo. B'fhéidir gur mhaith leis an Teachta Martin téacs na cainte a fheiceáil agus is feidir liom é a chur chuige.
Ní bhfuair mé freagra.
Ní bhím ag caint le Michael D. Higgins faoin gceist seo gach lá.
An raibh cruinniú ag an Aire roimhe seo leis na Gaelscoileanna agus le eagraíocht na scoileanna sa Ghaeltacht? Agus fosta an bhfuil fhios aici nach bhfuil muintir na Gaeltachta ná na nGaelscoileanna sásta leis an eolas ata le fáil acu on Roinn Oideachais? Cén fáth nach raibh aon seirbhís tré Ghaeilge le fáil? Cén fáth nach bhfuil go leor daoine ábalta Gaeilge a labhairt nó a gcuid oibre a dhéanamh tré Ghaeilge sa Roinn? An dtuigeann an tAire an díomá agus an fearg atá ar mhuintir na Gaeltachta agus ar mhuintir na nGaelscoileanna mar gheall ar seo?
Beidh mé ag caint leo. Tá fhios agam go bhfuil na rudaí a luaigh an Teachta ag cur isteach ar dhaoine. Ach creidim nach ceart teanga nó Gaeltacht nó na scoileanna lán-Ghaeilge a chur isteach i ghetto. Sin an rud atá mise ag iarraidh stop a chur leis.
I would like to make available to Members the contribution I will make to the Seanad tonight because, in a bilingual way, it will deal with the difficulties referred to here. I will finish with the words "beidh mise ag éisteacht". I will be ag éisteacht and will respond to concerns about in-service training and so on, issues that are different when dealing with lán Gaelach or Gaeltacht schools. The philosophy underpinning the need to establish education boards is to bring the education system nearer the community of the region. Is it easier for communities in, say, Connemara, Donegal or West Cork to communicate with an establishment on the eastern seaboard or with regional education boards? The education system would not benefit from the setting up of an education board to deal with the Irish system of national and secondary education. It would be a sorry day if the richness and contribution that all-Irish and Gaeltacht schools have to offer was lost to other schools at regional level by taking them out of the administration of education at regional level. When I deal with the matter in much more detail in the Seanad I will be delighted to make my speech available to my colleagues opposite.
An nglacann an tAire leis gur éileamh ón talamh atá i gceist anseo. Is é sin go bhfuil an t-éileamh ag teacht ón bpobal féin. Bhí cruinniú mór ar an gCeathrú Rua le gairid agus bhí go leor leor toscaireachtaí ó gach Gaeltacht ann. Má cheapann an tAire nach féidir na ceantair Ghaeltachta a snaidhmiú le chéile faoi údarás nó bord amháin an ionann sin is a rá go gceapann sí nach féidir le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta feidhmiú, mar tá na ceantair ar fad atá i gceist ag an Aire á phlé ag an Údarás?
Does the Minister accept that the biggest problem people living in the Gaeltacht face is being denied a range of basic educational services because of the absence of a board to monitor the provision of such services? I am sure the Deputy sitting behind the Minister will fill her in. This is of common interest across the Gaeltacht irrespective of political allegiance. Speech therapists ask the parents of children with speech difficulties to speak to them in English because of the lack of Irish speaking speech therapists. One such therapist was appointed by the Western Health Board recently. There are no psychological services through Irish or text books available for our children. Neither is there a panel of teachers capable of teaching through Irish.
The Deputy is making a speech.
Does the Minister agree that there is a need to establish a board to ensure these services are provided and to provide memoranda for all-Irish schools? Does she agree that all-Irish schools are entitled to avail of such services? Every regional board which, in the main, provides services through the English language has failed to meet its obligations to native Irish speakers. Does the Minister accept that this experiment will fail and that the minority will be swamped by the majority and we will be fighting the same battle for the next 50 years? It is time that the demands of the people living in Gaeltacht areas were listened to.
I do not agree with the Deputy's proposition. There is a need to deliver educational services through the regions to meet the needs of everyone in the community, including those attending all-Irish schools and adult education courses and students with special needs. There is a responsibility on each board to ensure that these needs are met. This responsibility will be underpinned by statutory provision. In the area in which the Deputy grew up people now have a choice——
For the Minister's information, I grew up in Ballsbridge in Dublin 4.
There has been a massive increase in the number of lán Gaelach schools along the eastern seaboard. If the Deputy grew up at my end of the wood and took his holidays at the other end, he would know that the needs of lán Gaelach schools along the eastern seaboard are different from the needs of schools in Gaeltacht areas.
In relation to the regional education boards, it would be sad if all-Irish schools, special education services and education services for travellers were excluded. One is engaged in a process of ghettoisation if one suggests that a particular sector or segment should be administered centrally. That is what the Deputy's proposal means if one takes it to its logical conclusion. If that were done, the philosophy underlying the regional education boards would not be developed. The needs of the entire community can be met through the regional delivery of educational services.
I was delighted to be in a position to provide recognition to a great number of lán Gaelach schools which have much to offer under the remit of a regional education board rather than as a separate sector without seeking a cross-cultural input which can be made where a community meets its plurality of needs whereby one has different schools for different communities. It would be sad if all-Irish schools were separated from the mainstream administration of educational services. This would run counter to the raison d'être of regional education boards.
The people asking for such a board to be set up are the people providing a service through the medium of Irish in Gaeltacht schools and Gael scoileanna. It is regrettable that a question had to be tabled in the Dáil and a motion in Seanad Éireann to get the Minister to state that she would meet the groups involved. That is a sad reflection on the democratic process in which we are engaged. It seems that these groups are unable to meet the Minister with ease or regularity to discuss issues of concern to them. Deputies Coughlan and Ó Cuív have articulated eloquently their sense of frustration.
Does the Minister accept that this debate highlights the gap which exists in the provision of services to this sector in terms of the provision of proper textbooks, in-service teacher training through Irish, Irish tapes, panels of substitute Irish teachers and resources? Given that little attention was paid to the teaching of Irish in Gaeltacht schools in the White Paper on Education which has never been produced in Irish, the scepticism, frustration and anger is well merited. This calls for action on the part of the Minister. This could include the establishment of a special unit within the Department of Education in the intervening period to meet these needs and to pull all the various strands together to have a more focused policy on the teaching of subjects through Irish.
This discussion began in Dublin Castle and those who teach subjects through Irish in Gaeltacht and lán Gaelach schools participated. I have indicated to the different groups involved that I am prepared to meet them to ensure their needs are met. A commitment is given in the policy document, A Government of Renewal, to protect the Irish language. I carry a certain responsibility to meet this commitment. It is not intended, however, to establish a separate board to meet the concerns expressed. If one reads the White Paper, having listened to the dialogue at Dublin Castle, and examines the criticism expressed about the centralisation of the delivery of educational services, one will see it was never envisaged that the needs of the Irish speaking community, special education services or services for travellers or other communities would be met through the establishment of a separate board.
What was being done relates to the philosophy underpinning the establishment of the board, that the community's total needs in lán Gaelach schools, special schools and adult education and traveller education will be met and delivered on a regional basis, and the board would be statutorily obliged to deliver such services. When the Irish edition of the Paipéar Bán is published, I will give the Deputy an autographed edition of it as I did in the case of the English edition.
Tá mé an-bhuíoch den Aire. Ar a laghad bhí sí an-deimhneach leis an bhfreagra más freagra diúltach féin a bhí ann. Ach sin ráite ba mhaith liom an cheist seo a chur ar an Aire. Has the Minister consulted experts, for example, Institiúid Teangeolaíochta, regarding the likely effects of her proposals and whether they will be delivered in relation to the Irish language? Will she explain why it has been necessary to set up a body like Údarás na Gaeltachta to deal with the Irish language on a regional basis if it could be dealt with on a geographic basis? Will she agree that difficulties in catering for a linguistic difference is totally different from addressing the needs of other groups as difficulties have been encountered in servicing the needs of linguistic minorities worldwide? Such service can only be provided if the people serving the group have competency in the language concerned. Did I correctly understand the Minister to say that the bilingual services will be provided by the staff in the various boards to service all Irish schools in their areas, even if there is only one such school in the area? The Minister knows as well as I that bilingual staff will not be provided for the boards in all the areas.
It cannot be done.
As in the case of Údarás na Gaeltachta, one board staffed with the necessary skills could be provided for all Irish schools. Will the Minister agree that not only is there a demand for all Irish education from schools from Scoil Locháin to Leitir Mealláin and from Gweedore to An Rí in Port Lairge, there is also a demand for a similar structure in the Six Counties. This is an ideal opportunity to establish a board in the Six Counties and one in the Twenty six Counties to deal with the provision of Irish language education for the Thirty two Counties. That is the demand of the sector. If we are serious about bottom up delivery of the service, that should be taken on board.
I am not setting up an administrative board. That was never the intention of this measure. The intention of decentralising from Marlborough Street was to deliver educational services on a regional basis to meet regional needs.
That is why every school is asked to return a calendar to the Department. What official will deal with the four thousand calendars that will be returned next year?
Deputy Ó Cuív referred to Institiúid Teangeolaíochta and linguistic skills, an area in which I have a particular interest. I would not like to ignore ongoing discussions between officials and the Department of Education and various branches and organisations concerned with the Irish language, particularly the ongoing discussions at inspectorate and chief inspectorate level. I said in my reply that I would meet those concerned.
Deputy Coughlan highlighted a number of issues of concern that should be dealt with on a national level. She referred to text books and in-service courses, facilities which should be available and administered.
Why are they not available?
I am listening to the debate in this area. I am aware of the meeting in Carraroe. I have come to a different conclusion from that reached by those who expressed concerns. We would lose out very badly in the enrichment of the full education system if we were to proceed along the lines advocated by Fianna Fáil. I am committed to the establishment of regional education boards which would meet the needs of communities. I do not consider them administrative type boards. I suggest that Deputy Ó Cuív is seeking an administrative board, which is not the underlying philosophy behind the education boards.
