Gerard C. Connolly
Question:7 Mr. Connolly asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry the farm organisations represented on the TB forum. [7583/96]
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - TB Forum.
The farm and agricultural organisations represented on the national forum for disease eradication are: Irish Farmers Association, Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association, Irish Co-operative Organisation Society and Macra na Feirme.
Will the Minister confirm that other organisations such as the Irish Veterinary Union, which is not part of the central review committee representation, is represented on the TB forum? Will he confirm that membership of the central review committee is not a prerequisite for membership of the TB forum? That being the case, what is the reason that ICSA — which is very involved with the question of TB — is not represented on the forum? Will he confirm that the reason it is not represented is not because of a threat of withdrawal by other farm organisations?
The Irish Veterinary Union, the Irish Veterinary Association and the Irish Veterinary Officers Association have an association with the Irish Congress of Trade Union, a participant of the central review committee, and that is why they are on the forum. The reason the United Farmers Association is excluded is that it has not participated in the Programme for Competitiveness and Work. If it becomes a participant in the Programme for Competitiveness and Work— and this was not drawn up in my time — it would be welcome to become involved in any activities.
I have always entertained the United Farmers Association and any time it sought a meeting with my officials or me it was slotted in with a week's notice. I would not like to give the impression that the United Farmers Association was excluded from the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry. It was not.
I am sure the Deputy welcomes the setting up of the forum. I heard him call for its establishment. It is good to see everybody around the table discussing the problem and I hope we will find the way forward.
The reason I tabled the question is that everybody is not around the table. I suggest the reason being given for not having everyone who represents farmers on the TB forum is spurious, that is their non-membership or their non-associate membership of the central review committee. Will the Minister agree that membership or non-membership of the central review committee has nothing to do with qualifications or expertise as members of the TB forum? Will he further agree that the only criteria for representation on the TB forum should be that the organisation is representative of people who are involved in the industry and have a knowledge as to how we can solve the TB problem?
The Minister quite rightly made it clear that in his view everybody involved should be represented on the TB forum. Will he undertake to take this up with his colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry, to ensure that not just UFA but the ICSA will be there also since veterinarians and other farm organisations are represented? We do not need party political bickering in farmer politics to get in the way of what is required -that is everybody around the table giving his constructive views on the matter.
I do not recall the reasons the United Farmers Association was not part of the Programme for Competitiveness and Work. I understand there is a policy in other fora that people who are not involved in the Programme for Competitiveness and Work——
That was the policy of Deputy Cowen's party.
Who set up the TB forum?
Let us hear the Minister's reply.
Deputy Connor does not believe in social partnership.
It was in Deputy Cowen's time that the UFA was excluded. In all the fora where decisions have to be taken, people who are not signatories of the Programme for Competitiveness and Work are not involved. If the UFA wants to talk to officials about TB or discuss its proposals with me I will certainly meet them any time. The precedent is there.
Why not put them on the forum? Will other organisations withdraw if it is represented?
There are no grounds whatsoever to suggest that if the UFA were included other organisations that are represented on it would withdraw. I do not know of any grounds.
If there is no objection, why not put its representative on the forum?
Does the Minister accept that the TB forum is very important? It is probably one of the most vital things that has happened in that field for some time. Would the Minister reconsider his decision to snub the organisations and instead have them co-opted to the forum? The knowledge and expertise of these people would be beneficial to a TB forum. How advanced is the forum in its work? Has it reached any conclusions? Does the Government directive on gender balance apply to it?
It is not a State or semi-State body. I cannot clarify that point as I do not have a list of its members.
Will the Minister of State let me have that information?
I will.
Does Deputy Byrne wish to nominate a woman to the forum?
I propose to nominate the Minister of State. Deputy Doyle, as she will be out of a job in the next session.
Let us hear the reply.
This is the way to proceed. Now that a new scheme is in place and there is a new direction in the TB eradication programme, it is important that it should be monitored by all the sectors involved including farmers, veterinary surgeons and the Department.
All the farm organisations.
I am confident that the forum will ensure that the new scheme will be successful and that if there are failings in it they will be rectified sooner rather than later. I am sure the forum will be an important factor in ensuring that the scheme will be successful.
Is the Minister prepared to give representatives of organisations who have been excluded from the forum a place at the table? When will farmers receive the tags they were promised they would have on 1 April? If they do not they will not be able to sell their calves.
That question is a little off track.
The Deputy tagged it on to the other question.
This is the plastic Government.
The structure of the forum has been established in line with a precedent and I believe it will be successful.
Why change the Government then?
The Deputy should know all about that.
I sure do. The Deputy is learning the hard way.
The Deputy learned the hard way from what happened at that time.
Let us hear the reply.
On the question about tags——
We had the Deputies opposite sweating for a few months.
——despite reports in today's newspapers I understand the scheme is in place and the Department is confident that there will not be any unnecessary delays.
Which is the more important, to ensure the forum, at which veterinary surgeons, farmers and others concerned are represented, is up and running with the majority of farmers represented at it or to have delays and large groups represented at it which would make it unworkable? When has the Opposition been so generous in allowing all the various groups concerned representation on such a body? It did not allow representation from any farm organisations when it set up An Bord Bia.
We had no problem accepting them.
I ask Deputies Connor and Cowen to refrain from further interruptions. The interruptions restricts accommodating other Deputies who are offering. This is the last time I will ask the Deputies to refrain, there are other measures I can adopt.
I thank Deputy Crawford for his timely supplementary.
Surprise, surprise.
I agree with Deputy Crawford. The groups represented signed the Programme for Competitiveness and Work. Given that proposals that may be made by the forum may involve financial implications, it is important that the groups represented are prepared to support them. We have the right combination. That is something all of us, including Deputy Cowen, have sought. I remember him making a strong case to bring everybody around the table.
They are not there yet.
Farmers, veterinary surgeons and the Department are very well represented. I am confident the forum will be very successful.
Deputy Crawford suggested that to add a representative from the ICMSA and one from the UFA who represent farmers and have as much a legitimate interest in this issue as members of the IFA or the ICMSA or any other group, would cause a greater delay and create an unworkable forum. It would only involve putting two more chairs around the table in Agriculture House which can accommodate far more than another two people. For what reason are we seeking to placate sectional interests and engaging in politicking in farmer politics which does not have anything to do with bovine TB?
It is the Deputy who is playing politics.
I am aware that Deputy Crawford is a farmer and probably a current member of the IFA and does not want to declare his interests in this matter, and there is nothing wrong with that.
What about the Deputy, does he have any shares in it?
I am not a member of the IFA nor am I beholden to any of its agenda unlike the Minister of State who appears to be totally beholden to it. As this is a critical issue for farmers why will the Minister of State not allow two people who have a legitimate representative capacity, whom he said he would meet at a moment's notice in regard to all other matters, sit at the table? That is a simple question.
I have explained the reasons.
Without any credibility.
The position is clear. When those organisations become part of future arrangements like the Programme for Competitiveness and Work they will be welcome around the table.
That is nonsense.
The Deputy cannot have it every way.
Given that the Minister has refused point-blank here under the cover of the Programme for Competitiveness and Work to allow the United Farmers Association and the ICMSA representation at the forum, will he accept submissions from them or from any other body?
Certainly he will, but will not meet in the same room.
Will he accept oral or written submissions?
Any time I met the organisations referred to——
Will the Minister of State accept oral or written submissions from those groups?
I have done so in the past and I will have no problem doing so in the future.
Will the forum accept oral or written submissions from those groups?
I will accept them and I am sure those submissions will be passed on to the forum for consideration.
The Minister of State is telling us that groups can make submissions only via him and not directly.
Farmers apart.