Vol. 465 No. 2
8 Mr. R. Burke asked the Minister for the Environment further to his reply to Parliamentary Question No. 19 of 27 March 1996, whether he received the full stage I phase of the consultant's report on local government finance; if so, if he will make available this report; and whether he has proceeded to stage II of this study. [9315/96]
I have just received the report of the consultants who undertook Stage I of the study on local government financing and I am making arrangements for it to be published.
The report analyses future expenditure requirements of local authorities and the ability of the present funding system to meet those requirements. It reviews previous reports on the subject and gives details of financing systems abroad. On the basis of the analysis, it examines a number of options for alternative funding arrangements.
I am now considering the report with a view to moving to Stage II of the study as quickly as possible.
Can the Minister give us a timescale on this for the benefit of Fine Gael backbenchers, some of whom are hiding behind this review in the context of residential property tax which really has nothing to do with it?
I would rather clarify the position for the Deputy asking the question. I am committed to strengthening local government. I do not say that lightly; I believe there is a very strong view in the House in favour of it. I am also very conscious that, particularly in an election year, there will be certain sensitivities about dealing with such an issue. But I am heartened by the comments made by the Leader of the Opposition——
Leader of the largest Opposition party.
——the Leader of the Fianna Fáil Party, Deputy Ahern, and the Leader of the Progressive Democrats, Deputy Harney, when they indicated to the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs that this review needed to be undertaken on an all-party basis. The options for funding local government are known to everybody, no magic solution will fall from the sky. I intend publishing the consultants' report, which contains the first set of ideas, as soon as possible.
When?
I received it on Tuesday last so the House will forgive me if I have not yet read or examined it comprehensively. Once I have had an opportunity to do so, I will make it available to the Opposition parties, to the spokespersons on the environment and ascertain how we can build a consensus on taking it out of party political friction. We will endeavour to ascertain whether we can devise a system of funding local government acceptable nationally.
We must do that or stumble on with an inadequately funded form of local government. I have taken people at their word, that of the spokespersons on the environment and the Leaders of the two main Opposition parties who spoke to the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs. I believe there is a willingness to deal constructively with such proposals.
I agree completely with the Minister when he says that attempting to reform local government without examining its funding is a waste of time. I have said continuously in this House that it should be tackled on an all-party basis notwithstanding the temptation to use it as a political football. Now that the Minister has received stage I of the study on local government financing, can he give some time-scale within which he expects stage II to commence?
I do not intend to engage in a broad-ranging discussion on the consultants' report which I shall publish. I hope phase II will be up and running in parallel, which will constitute taking the most likely options recognised by the funding group and exploring them in some detail.
On the Deputys' original question, this is a review of all aspects of local government funding, in turn, leading to a comprehensive review of the realistic requirements of local government into the next century to finance all the schemes to be implemented. I am particularly aware of the infrastructure required in the case of sewage disposal, water supply and so on. I have published the water needs study of Dublin. Major continuous, infrastructural investments will need to be maintained and developed, the funding of which will necessitate realistic decisions into the future.
We cannot simply ignore the problem and hope that the current position will suffice. We can do better if we can reach a consensus. Terrible mistakes were made in the past when we allowed local government issues to become divisive. I know that, in Government, it is asking a lot of people to build this consensus but over the past three and a half years five parties have been in Government. The likelihood is that over the next ten to 15 years those five parties will interchange, which appears to be the way politics is moving. It is not in anybody's interest to sacrifice local government to any narrow focus of making points in the hope of winning a general election.
On that principle, I hope we can build some form of consensus for a funding mechanism which will be fair, equitable and acceptable to the general public. I will facilitate that process. Whether it will come to a conclusion before the next general election I cannot say but I shall advance the process as quickly as I can. I shall also engage in broad consultation with my colleagues in Government and with local authorities who have expressed very strong views on this point. I have been very encouraged by the comments I have heard.
I was pleased to hear the response of Deputy Eoin Ryan and the Minister since I had asked whether he would agree that the funding of local government had tended to be used as a political football locally and nationally over many years. That has been the case, to the extent that the public has become disillusioned, discovering that politicians make promises in Opposition but once in Government, they act differently. Would the Minister agree that there is a need for the establishment of an all-party committee to put the interests of the public and local democracy first rather than seek political favours?
I am very much in agreement with the Deputy. When they appeared before the Select Committee on Finance and General Affairs, Deputies Bertie Ahern and Harney were clear that they favoured an all-party approach to the issue, stating that serious reform would be achieved only if the matter was dealt with on that basis, one expressed also by their spokespersons, Deputies Dempsey and Quill. I do not know whether we will achieve that consensus which will inevitably become more difficult the nearer we approach a general election, but it is worth endeavouring to do so. Once we have undertaken our in-house review, I will do my best to facilitate such an analysis quickly.
Does the Minister agree that an enormous amount of political leadership will be required to sell any different system of funding of local government to the general public? The history of any such attempts since 1977 has been plagued by base, gross cynicism on the part of a number of politicians. Based on that experience, would he consider permitting a debate on the consultants' report here, when all parties could contribute and possibly arrive at a consenses? That would be tying parties to some agreed principle, the details of which could be worked out in phase II of the consultants' report. If we are to claim any self-respect, we must be successful on this issue but it is also important that we be at one in this House. Does the Minister accept that it is equally important that what Members say in the House corresponds to their comments on returning to their constituencies?
Perhaps broadcasting of the proceedings of the Oireachtas has ensured greater coherence between what is said here and in constituencies.
I am heartened by the views expressed here. We are setting ourselves the major task of devising a form of local government funding but it will be extremely important that any such device commands public support. That will be achieved only if we can reach a broad political consensus within the Houses of the Oireachtas. I have an open mind in relation to a debate here; that would be a matter for the Whips to organise once the report is published.
My fear whenever one publishes any report is that somebody will extract a sentence or concept in an endeavour to sink it. Therefore, we must all be measured in our attitude to this one. As I have said, if we kill it off now, it will be dead for all time; nobody will be the better or worse for such action but local government will be the worse. Nobody will want to be a kamikaze pilot and fly solo on this issue. If we are serious about devolving power to local government, we must put in place a secure funding mechanism, bearing in mind a range of new costs evolving on them to maintain an expensive infrastructure in which we are investing with the aid of Cohesion Funds.
People will not mind paying service charges if local government services are responsive. During the recent by-election in Dublin West it was apparent that no services were provided in huge tracts of the constituency whereas people in wealthier areas were complaining about service charges. This is an example of how local government is not working.
Considering that there is agreement among Members this afternoon, would the Minister not agree that it is absolutely ludicrous for the Fine Gael Party to try to tie local government reform with the residential property tax? There is no connection whatsoever.
In the Programme for Government — and I was involved in the negotiations — we asked the professional review group to include in its remit the residential property tax. All the local charges have to be reviewed to see what mechanism we can advance with. Some funding mechanisms — whatever views people expressed about them in the past — carry baggage in the public mind. We need to have a system which has broad public and political support. I think we can find such a system but not if we are trying to score points off each other. We should start on the basis of not trying to put anybody out of the equation. As Deputy Quill has said, if we want to keep our self respect on this issue we should try to keep our counsel and try to be constructive about it.
It might be difficult.
Once people pull the plug on it, the issue will die. We must try to bring about major reform — which if done right, the public will welcome. I know I am asking a great deal from the Opposition to work with me on that, but I will certainly try. I am very encouraged by the statements of leaders and spokespersons from the Opposition benches.
