Bertie Ahern
Question:4 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting with the Alliance Party on Friday, 24 May 1996. [10808/96]
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Meetings with Northern Parties.
Bertie Ahern
Question:5 Mr. B. Ahern asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his meeting with the SDLP on 21 May 1996. [10839/96]
Mary Harney
Question:6 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the leader of the Alliance Party on Friday, 24 May 1996. [10850/96]
Mary Harney
Question:7 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the leader of the SDLP on Tuesday, 21 May 1996. [10851/96]
Mary Harney
Question:8 Miss Harney asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the consultations, if any, he has had regarding the arrangements in the forthcoming all-party negotiations to deal with the issue of decommissioning. [10852/96]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 8, inclusive, together.
I had very useful meetings last week with the SDLP and the Alliance Party.
Our discussions focused on the all-party negotiations commencing on 10 June. I outlined the Government's approach and in particular conveyed our determination that the negotiations should, in a full and comprehensive fashion, address all the relevant issues. We will continue to work intensively to this end in the lead up to 10 June.
Deputies will appreciate that, given the elections taking place in Northern Ireland this week, it would not be helpful for me to give further details either about the meetings or the consultations currently taking place.
I thank the Taoiseach for his reply on the meetings. Given the week that is in it, I accept it may be difficult for him to give too much information and we did not get much from the four questions. I wish the Taoiseach to comment on one matter. Following last week's meeting between the Tánaiste and Sir Patrick Mayhew, the latter said in a press conference that if he gave the impression that Sinn Féin would be able to continue in the talks process when decommissioning was raised, he did so unintentionally, it would not be permissible and that party would be excluded from the talks, which would proceed without it. From what was said previously, I understand that is not the Irish Government's view. Will the Taoiseach indicate if, in the event of Sinn Féin engaging with the IRA to bring about a new ceasefire, like the ceasefire of August 1994 and signing up to the Mitchell principles, when the issue of decommissioning is debated that Sinn Féin will not be excluded from the talks if there is not decommissioning? As I understand it, the Mitchell principles do not relate to decommissioning. The Mitchell report states that the parties should consider partial decommissioning during the talks process, but that is not what Sir Patrick Mayhew said last week. Will the Taoiseach clarify this issue and the Irish Government's position on it?
The Irish Government's position is that we want the issue of decommissioning to be addressed in accordance with the Mitchell report. Paragraph 34 of the report states that the parties should consider an approach under which some decommissioning would take place during the process of all-party negotiations rather than before or after the negotiations. I emphasise the words, "that the parties should consider". A question of consideration is at issue here, nothing more or less.
I thank the Taoiseach for that clarification. It is important in the present circumstances that the issue of decommissioning is a consideration and not a de facto decommissioning of arms although, if possible, we would all like that to happen tomorrow. However, that has not been the Irish position in negotiations with Sir Patrick Mayhew. Will the Taoiseach indicate if that is one of the issues creating a difficulty in the ongoing disagreements with the British Government? Has Senator Mitchell's involvement in the talks process been clarified? Will the position of the Irish Government be the same as some of the parties I asked about in discussions today? Perhaps Senator Mitchell should be involved in the decommissioning strand and not in other strands? What is the Irish Government's position on this?
All the matters mentioned in the Deputy's supplementary are among those currently being discussed between the Irish and British Governments at official level and today between the Tánaiste and the Secretary of State. It is important to make the point that we have reached a large measure of agreement on a wide range of issues with the British Government in the lead up to these talks in terms of setting the date for the talks and on the ground rules for them. While issues yet to be agreed remain and we wish to ensure that as much as possible is agreed before the talks commence, it is not inappropriate to draw attention to the fact that a great deal of issues have been agreed between us. That gives grounds for some degree of optimism that remaining problems will be overcome.
I appreciate that the elections are on this week and that, therefore, we need to be careful. However, the Anglo-Irish Conference is going ahead, although it would have been better to have postponed it if the Governments cannot reach agreement because that could have a negative effect. In the light of what the Taoiseach has just said, is he drawing a distinction between consideration of decommissioning on the one hand, and action on decommissioning on the other?
I have stated the Irish Government's position as clearly as it could possibly be stated. We want to address the decommissioning issue in accordance with the Mitchell report. I drew attention to paragraph 34 of that report which says, in regard to what is loosely described as parallel decommissioning, that "the parties should consider an approach under which some decommissioning would take place during the process of all-party negotiations rather than before or after as the parties now urge". I emphasised again, in response to Deputy Ahern, the words "the parties should consider". The parties only get together to consider anything when the talks start and the word used is "consider". That is self-explanatory.
I have to press the Taoiseach on this point because it is not clear to me. Is the Taoiseach saying that if the parties merely consider the decommissioning issue, as far as the Irish Government is concerned it would be happy with that, or is he saying that the parties must consider actually decommissioning? Is that what the Irish Government is looking for?
It is important that we should return at all times to the actual content of the Mitchell report rather than seeking to import our own private meanings into it as, perhaps, the Deputy might wish me to do.
We are asking the Taoiseach what he thinks.
What the parties are asked to do is to consider an approach under which decommissioning would take place during the process of all-party negotiations. The Irish Government's preferences as to the decommissioning of arms are well known. I have stated on many occasions that in terms of our preferences we see no place for illegal arms in the political equation, and never have. What is at stake is not the view of the Irish Government as to the ideal situation or what we would like to attain. What is at stake is the basis on which the discussions are taking place. I have already said in response to Deputy Ahern that the basis upon which we consider the talks to be taking place is paragraph 34 of the Mitchell report which I have quoted. The Deputy is well aware of my views and the views of the Government on the decommissioning issue generally. That is not what is at stake here. What is at stake is the ground rules laid down in the Mitchell report which we believe are the appropriate ground rules for the talks. I have answered the Deputy's question and there should be no lack of clarity in her mind on the matter.
Lest there should be any misunderstanding, the Taoiseach's view in relation to decommissioning is shared on this side of the House, but the reality is as laid out in the very carefully drafted report of former Senator Mitchell. In regard to the role of Senator Mitchell in the talks, what is the preferred option of the Government, again accepting the sensitivity of the election in the North? Is it the preferred option of the Government that Senator Mitchell should have a major role to play? Would that role relate exclusively to the question of decommissioning, or would it be as chairman of the Strand II phase? What would be the Government's preferred option? Would the Taoiseach confirm that it is the Government's wish that Senator Mitchell should play a major role, as he obviously has a unique knowledge of the whole situation?
The best I can do to answer the Deputy's question is to reiterate my answer to the same question from Deputy Ahern last week when I said that the question of personnel in the various roles to be fulfilled, the structure of their responsibilities etc., has yet to be settled between the two Governments, and when it is settled it will be announced jointly by both Governments. All discussions about how individuals might be involved should be conducted jointly by the two Governments, not individually by one Government. I went on to say that I strongly believe Senator George Mitchell has an unrivalled capacity to make a valuable contribution in this area. I elaborated somewhat on that point. That basically is the position now. I have the highest admiration for Senator Mitchell and his capacity, but it is a matter for the two Governments to reach a settlement or agreement on this matter. It is important to make the point that we would not appreciate it if the British Government were to make a statement of its position on a matter of this nature without our agreement. The same applies in reverse.
After the Taoiseach's meeting with the SDLP leader he said he was close to agreement with the British Prime Minister on the procedure for decommissioning. Is that still the case? Is the Taoiseach willing to meet the British Prime Minister if today's Anglo-Irish conference does not succeed in clearing the procedures for decommissioning and other issues?
I stand by what I said after the meeting with the SDLP. I said, in the context of the overall record we have had in terms of reaching agreement on various issues with the British Government — including issues which many might have thought it would be impossible for the Irish and British Governments to reach agreement upon — that we did, admittedly after some difficult negotiations, reach the relevant agreements. Given the issues upon which we have already reached agreement, the remaining issues are ones upon which we can, and I hope will, reach agreement. As I also said in my remarks after the meeting with the SDLP, the purpose of the all-party talks is also to reach agreements between all of the parties and, although it would be desirable that the Irish and British Governments would have identical views on everything before the talks start, it may well be that there will be some issues on which we, as parties, will still have views that need to be accommodated and can be accommodated during the talks process or simultaneously with it. As far as possible we will seek the maximum degree of agreement between the Governments before 10 June. As far as my role in reaching agreement is concerned, I am obviously keeping in almost hourly contact with the progress of discussions on this matter at official level and between the Tánaiste and the Secretary of State. I have had to date several conversations with the British Prime Minister at various points and stand ready to have further conversations either by telephone or face-to-face as and when necessary. As the Deputy is well aware it is possible for the Prime Minister and me to meet at comparatively short notice if that is needed.
If the all-party talks start with everybody participating on 10 June, which is the wish of everybody in this House, will the Taoiseach be in support of a resumption of the meetings of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation?
Yes, I would. There is considerable work which is at an advanced stage at the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation which it would be desirable that we should complete. I have already indicated in my speech in Finglas that, at least as far as the Government and my own party are concerned, I would favour a resumption of the meetings to complete that work if an IRA ceasefire takes place and Sinn Féin can thereby take part.
Has it yet been agreed whether the British Prime Minister and the Taoiseach intend to be at the opening of these talks on 10 June? Has the composition of the Government team for the talks been agreed?
No final decisions have been taken on either of those points at this juncture, but they are engaging the Government's attention.