Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 Feb 1997

Vol. 474 No. 4

Order of Business.

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take No. 7a — motion re Instruction to Select Committee on the Central Bank Bill, 1996; No. 18 — Employment Equality Bill, 1996, Order for Report and Report and Final Stages; and No. 17 — Decommissioning Bill, 1996, Second Stage (Resumed).

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 10.30 p.m.; (2) the proceedings on No. 7a, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes, shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and to the main spokespersons for the Fianna Fáil Party and Progressive Democrats Party and shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; and (3) Private Member's Business shall be No. 45 — motion No. 17 re. CIE and the proceedings thereon shall be brought to a conclusion at 8.30 p.m.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are three matters to put before the House. Is the proposal for a late sitting satisfactory and agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 7a satisfactory? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with Private Members' Business this evening satisfactory? Agreed.

Mr. B. Ahern

The Taoiseach indicated on yesterday's Order of Business that he would move with some speed on some new developments on the Lowry/Dunnes Stores inquiry. Has the Tánaiste any news on that? I understand there was a Government meeting last night to discuss this matter. Has the Government cleared whatever action it will take on the issue?

The Tánaiste

The Government is meeting this evening at 6.30 p.m. to consider the report that was handed over yesterday. It is our intention to move as quickly as possible. I do not wish to preempt a Government decision but the Taoiseach intimated yesterday that we would be looking at the setting up of a tribunal. It is very important that we take steps as quickly and expeditiously as possible to clear the air in regard to this matter.

Mr. B. Ahern

I thank the Tánaiste for his reply. It is wholly unsatisfactory that what led to the investigation in the first place seems to be lost and nobody knows who received the millions of pounds which are supposed to be floating around.

Mr. Finucane

That is what we want to find out also.

Mr. B. Ahern

Some newspaper articles this morning cast a slur on all politicians and I reject one allegation in at least two newspapers that the reason the report was circulated so quickly yesterday was that no other politicians were mentioned. I am sure Deputy Bell's committee feels strongly about this and I certainly do as a Member of this House. I do not care which politicians are mentioned and I want to see this matter dealt with. This day should not pass without the Government stating clearly what action it intends taking and it should be taken next week.

An Ceann Comhairle

We had some discussion on this matter yesterday. I do not want to see a repeat of that discussion.

Mr. Bell

On a point of order, I have to refute that. The decision taken yesterday was taken by unanimous agreement, even in consultation with a Member who was in New York, and seconded by a member of the Deputy's party.

Mr. B. Ahern

I am agreeing with the Deputy.

The Tánaiste

I agree with Deputy Ahern. From day one there has been a cloud of suspicion over all politicians and political parties. It is important that as quickly as possible we explore this matter within the confines of the rule of law which we have to observe. The Government will meet this afternoon. It is the earliest opportunity since yesterday because the Taoiseach has engagements this morning. We will make decisions as it is in everybody's interest. When we discussed this matter in the House last December, there were headlines of £5 million and £6 million. Let the people who wrote those headlines come before the tribunal and justify what they were saying. The sooner we do that, the better.

Miss Harney

If the Government decides today to proceed with the establishment of a tribunal we will be happy to co-operate with moving that motion tomorrow because it is important that we should act quickly in this matter. Given that the Buchanan inquiry could not trace 63 per cent of the payments it would not be fair to expect the media, who do not even have as much access as Judge Buchanan had to information, to trace them. In the interest of everybody in public life, not just politicians, the sooner the tribunal is established, the sooner the controversy will end. The public will only accept a fair and impartial tribunal of inquiry, not one conducted by five politicians. I urge the Government to agree to establish the tribunal and, if it does so, to bring the motion before this House tomorrow.

Mr. B. Ahern

Does the Tánaiste think new measures are necessary to strengthen international police co-operation arising out of individual cases, particularly in light of developments in the Sophie Toscan du Plantier and Veronica Guerin murder investigations? It seems international police co-operation does not have the legislative basis to deal with these matters effectively.

An Ceann Comhairle

Could we observe procedures and relate these matters to promised legislation?

Mr. B. Ahern

In the interests of examining the matter I am sure it is the Government's intention to bring forward legislation. I understand it has not been examined in the past.

The Tánaiste

In the first instance it is a matter for other Governments to devise their own legislative procedures. Deputy Ahern is aware the level of co-operation between police forces within the EU is higher than ever before and on the basis of Europol being established the level will be still higher. We must do everything at international level to co-operate against all crime and the tragic murder of Madame du Plantier is an example of where co-operation is necessary. All the information we have is that there is the highest level of co-operation between the police forces involved.

Mr. Power

When will the Government ratify the convention on the safety of United Nations and associated personnel?

The Tánaiste

That is a matter for the Minister for Justice; I do not have the information with me, but I will communicate with the Deputy.

Miss Harney

Given the chaos that exists in the prison service, when will the Government establish the independent prisons executive?

Mr. Dukes

Deputy Harney was in Government the last time there was a riot in Mountjoy.

Mr. McCreevy

She hardly caused it.

Miss Harney

The Taoiseach promised an independent court and prison service on 12 November last in this House so it is legitimate to ask when the prison service will be established.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is there legislation in the area?

Miss Harney

Yes.

The Tánaiste

We are awaiting a report on all aspects of prison administration. Legislation will follow as quickly as possible and it will be a priority of the Government.

Dr. Woods

The Tánaiste has a unique opportunity this morning in the House given that the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry and the Minister for Social Welfare are sitting beside one another. Could he lean over, beat their heads together and ask them to restore the £4 million worth of butter vouchers which have been lost to the poor? Does the Government have any plans to restore them?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Woods, this is not Question Time and the subject is an ideal question to put down. Please do so.

Dr. Woods

Legislation will come shortly. Perhaps the Tánaiste would like to——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Woods, please desist. The Deputy knows the procedure.

Dr. Woods

I do not know how the Government lost £4 million worth of butter vouchers.

Mr. O'Donoghue

What is holding up the bail legislation which was promised to follow the November referendum?

Mr. D. Ahern

Democratic Left.

Mr. O'Donoghue

Is it delayed because a chronic "open door" policy is already being operated in our prisons?

The Tánaiste

As a fellow countyman of Deputy O'Donoghue I will give him a straight answer. Nothing is holding up the legislation.

Mr. O'Donoghue

Then where is it?

Mr. E. Ryan

Considering that I am not allowed raise the issue under Standing Order 31 or on the Adjournment, will the Tánaiste say whether the Government will make a clear statement of its position on the proposed Nirex dump at Sellafield?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should proceed in the ordinary way.

Mr. E. Ryan

There is no ordinary way.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are many ways open to the Deputy to raise this matter. It is not in order now.

Mr. E. Ryan

When is it in order?

An Ceann Comhairle

My office will assist the Deputy in the matter if he so desires.

Mr. E. Ryan

Your office told me I could not raise the matter either under Standing Order 31 or on the Adjournment.

Mr. Martin

Will the Tánaiste take steps to ensure the deeds of variation — which are an addendum to the Education Bill and represent the agreement between the partners in primary school education in terms of the governance of school education — will be published and made available to Dáil Deputies? Given that we have published the Freedom of Information Bill, it is somewhat absurd that this agreement has not been made available to me via Dáil questions or to any other Member of this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not strictly relevant but if the Tánaiste wishes to intervene he is welcome to do so.

The Tánaiste

The Deputy is requesting that I take steps. As I understand it, the matter is before the Attorney General for legal advice and as soon as that is given steps will be taken.

Mr. Martin

On a point of order, all the partners involved and some journalists have copies of this but Members of this House do not, which is ridiculous. It should be formally published.

An Ceann Comhairle

This should not lead to argument now.

Mr. B. Ahern

In his meeting today with Sir Patrick Mayhew, will the Tánaiste raise the North report and request a new inquiry into Bloody Sunday?

The Tánaiste

Those two matters are on the agenda and I look forward to my discussions with the Secretary of State on both issues.

Dr. McDaid

Regarding the matter of the Charitable Lotteries (Amendment) Bill, which is promised legislation, the Taoiseach promised we would take the Social Welfare Bill before the end of the month and I presume we will discuss it throughout March. Will the Tánaiste recommend to the Government that the Minister for Justice raise the cap imposed by the Charitable Lotteries Act by statutory instrument? Rehab is currently making only 40 per cent of its potential earnings as projected a year ago and as a result is suffering dramatic losses. It appears the new legislation will not be on the Statute Book until 1998.

The Tánaiste

I am sure Deputy McDaid is aware this matter is before a committee of the House and is being dealt with there.