Proinsias De Rossa
Question:4 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach the plans, if any, he has to attend any of the sessions of the Northern Ireland peace talks; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15363/97]
Ceisteanna—Questions. - Northern Ireland Peace Process.
John Bruton
Question:5 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the plans, if any, he has to visit Northern Ireland. [15468/97]
John Bruton
Question:6 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach his views on the comment by the Northern Ireland Secretary, Dr. Mo Mowlam, that the talks in Northern Ireland could be completed by Christmas, 1997. [15475/97]
Dick Spring
Question:7 Mr. Spring asked the Taoiseach the Government's views on the three-strand negotiations which commenced in Northern Ireland on 1 October, 1997. [15680/97]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 7, inclusive, together.
I paid my first visit to Northern Ireland, as Taoiseach, to address the biennial conference of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions a few days after coming into office.
As I said last week, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and myself, together with our officials, have had a wide range of contacts with representatives of all traditions and parties in the lead up to the talks. These contacts will continue as the talks progress. I envisage, of course, paying further visits to Northern Ireland, particularly with a view to assisting the talks process, whenever suitable opportunities arise.
I said last week that the move into substantive negotiations which will comprehensively address the totality of relationships is an historic breakthrough and an historic achievement. I also said that the Government's negotiating position and the national interest will be based on, and served by, the Downing Street Declaration, the Joint Framework Document, the Mitchell principles and the draft report of the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. I do not believe that it would be appropriate now to expand further on the Government's position outside the talks framework.
I reiterate what I said last week in calling for all the participants to maintain the momentum of progress achieved since July and to join with both Governments in moving forward to reach an agreed settlement as quickly as possible in the interests of all the people of these islands. I would, of course, be delighted if agreement could be achieved rapidly, but this will depend on the ability of those of us engaged in the talks to work to build compromise and agreement.
Does the Government have any specific proposals on North-South bodies over and above the general description of those agreed in February 1995 in the Framework Document?
As Deputy Bruton knows, the strand 1 process started this morning and the other strands will follow during the course of the day. In each stage it is our intention to put forward a paper — although not a very comprehensive one at this point — setting down our aspirations, while keeping them within what is already in the Framework Document and other documents.
At some levels we have already put forward proposals on North-South bodies concerning the areas and kinds of agreements which we believe could usefully be pursued.
In view of the central role the Minister for Foreign Affairs will play in these talks, and having regard to the fact that they are now at a critically sensitive point, can the Taoiseach indicate when he proposes to fill the vacancy of Minister for Foreign Affairs?
Very shortly.
I want to pursue the earlier question of North-South bodies. Would the Taoiseach agree with me that there is not a great deal of thinking in the Administration on this side of the Border on the detailed work that could be done on a North-South basis? There are many aspirational ideas about how good it would be to co-operate on this or that, but there are not many concrete specifics ready to be put into action. Part of the scepticism about North-South bodies on the Northern side of the Border derives from the belief that on this subject we are strong on rhetoric but not strong on hard-headed practical ideas that would be of benefit to everybody in all parts of the island.
Over the last few years detailed work has been done in the Department of Foreign Affairs on this issue. A range of areas has been set out where co-operation could usefully move forward in the early stage, as well as other areas that would take more time. On his appointment, the outgoing Minister for Foreign Affairs immediately prepared an extensive document on how the North-South dimension could move forward, building on areas that have previously been mentioned. Many of them are familiar, such as agriculture and fisheries, as well as arts, culture and tourism. Approximately 40 areas are not new but over the past few years——
It is more like a laundry list than a list of concrete proposals.
I did not hear the Deputy calling it a laundry list when he was Taoiseach.
It needs more work.
It is not a laundry list. The list of proposed North-South bodies is comprehensive, yet aspirational because negotiations are only starting. It has been developed to a certain extent, but it must be developed further during the talks process. An extensive amount of work has gone into its preparation. The economic bodies in the North, which represent business and community interests, have given their views on these matters. Negotiations are only starting but this is an adequate list which has been in existence for some time. Many people have worked hard during its preparation, but more work will be done as the talks progress.
The Taoiseach is factually correct when he says there is a long list of topics. However, would he agree there is a lack of concrete proposals on how things can be done rather than on topics which can be discussed? Would the Taoiseach agree to a debate in the House on North-South co-operation in which the Government and Opposition could make specific proposals on how things could be done on the island about which there might not be any political contention?
I have no difficulty listening to suggestions and proposals from this House but I do not want people to think the list is a wish list. This list was mentioned during the 1991 talks and many suggestions have been made by CBI and other groups since then. There is a requirement to develop those proposals. The list is comprehensive and represents more than a starting position. I support the work done in developing it. I have no difficulty agreeing to a discussion in the House where people could put forward proposals.
Is the Taoiseach aware that the British Prime Minister has indicated an interest in attending the Northern Ireland peace talks? Has he considered the possibility of attending the talks with the British Prime Minister?
There have been discussions about that. It was thought we might do so today but both of us felt that would be inappropriate. It will take a little time for the talks process to find its feet and both of us will be closely involved. If a suitable time is found, either one or both of us will attend. In the meantime, there is close contact between Prime Minister Blair and myself and the key officials involved.
Given that we have put so much emphasis on executive functions between North and South, would the Taoiseach agree it is important to know what functions we would like to give to these cross-Border institutions? I will give the Taoiseach an example of my experience as a Minister in the Northern Ireland power sharing executive. When we were considering functions for the Council of Ireland, my departmental secretary attended a meeting with his counterpart in the South. Afterwards he asked if the people in the South were serious about the Council of Ireland and about giving it meaningful functions because he said he was given a list by Departments in the South which dealt with animal diseases. I know animal diseases are important but to place so much emphasis on them in a long list of functions for the Council of Ireland is ridiculous. We must ensure that the functions we agree to transfer are meaningful, otherwise discussions will prove to be a nonsense. From his long experience of holding high office in Government, does the Taoiseach agree that people have an inclination to retain functions rather than transfer them to others? Does he agree this is not the time for building or retaining empires of that nature?
That is true. "Turf wars", as they are commonly known in administrations throughout the world, occur in cases where people wish to retain the powers they possess. During recent years, Departments and agencies — both statutory and non-statutory — have been developing and working closely together on a range of North-South issues. In recent months I encouraged Ministers to work comprehensively on that list so that the understanding will develop, over a period, that we must not list something simply for the sake of listing it. There must be a reason that people want these functions developed on a North-South basis. We want to ensure the development of fair, meaningful and comprehensive arrangements.
I note the Deputy's concerns about the past but the situation and many of the agencies involved have moved on. The level of contact is much better than it was five years ago and we must continue our work on it. The difficulty will be to encourage people on all sides to see the benefits of these developments and reach agreement about the issue of the executive. At this stage, we are well armed to begin the process and we must continue to develop issues listed in recent years.
I wish to pursue the Taoiseach's point about giving practical expression to North-South co-operation. Does he accept that the example of the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation was appalling? Apparently, without any reference to the Northern Ireland Tourist Board, the Minister scrapped an agreed all-Ireland logo. The Taoiseach must insist that Ministers should ensure that full practical expression is given to this principle of co-operation otherwise our friends in Northern Ireland will not take us seriously.
Major consultation took place between the two tourist boards in respect of the logo.
There was also agreement.
Yes.
It was the jettisoning of that agreement to which I referred.
The two tourist boards and the individuals involved reached agreement, but misunderstanding or dissatisfaction emerged following the announcements made. The Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy McDaid, and other Ministers have recently been in contact with the Northern Ireland authorities to prevent a recurrence of that situation. However, detailed and comprehensive agreements were reached prior to the announcement of the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation.
Did the Minister consult his Northern Irish counterparts about his intentions or did he declare those intentions unilaterally? That is the crucial issue.
The Minister had such consultations.
That is not the information emanating from Northern Ireland.
It is unfortunate that a degree of dissatisfaction still exists.
Question No. 8 is postponed until tomorrow. Therefore, we will now deal with Question No. 9.