Vol. 481 No. 2
8 Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Finance if he has satisfied himself that all public buildings under the Office of Public Works' care which are providing Government services have adequate access for disabled people, including wheelchair users, old age pensioners and other categories of people; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15766/97]
It is the long-standing policy of the Commissioners of Public Works to provide access facilities for disabled persons to public buildings in their care.
There are approximately 1,300 public buildings in the care of the Commissioners of Public Works. I am satisfied the majority of these buildings, in particular the larger and more recently constructed ones, have adequate access for disabled persons, including wheelchair users, old age pensioners and other categories of people.
All new buildings and major refurbishments of existing buildings undertaken by the Commissioners of Public Works are designed in accordance with the requirements of the building regulations with regard to access, including access for disabled persons.
The commissioners recently undertook a survey of existing buildings which identified a wide range of works which were required to improve access for people with disabilities to some of the buildings in their care. Arising from this survey, a specific programme of improvement works was commenced. It is anticipated that £1,000,000 will be spent this year on improving access for disabled persons.
I thank the Minister of State for his reply. Is he aware a large number of the 738 Garda facilities do not have access for disabled people? Will he indicate the number of Garda facilities that do not have such access? Will he outline the number of buildings that provide access for those with sensory disabilities? We hear a good deal about physical disabilities, but not so much about sensory disabilities, which includes those with hearing and visual difficulties. In many cases there is no provision by the Office of Public Works for people with that type of disability.
The Office of Public Works has been to the fore in ensuring buildings have access facilities for people with disabilities. No other organisation has done as much in the recent past to keep abreast of these changes. I do not know the number of Garda facilities that do not have access. If the Deputy wanted such a specific answer he should have tabled a question on it. I can assure the Deputy that access for the disabled is central to the development and design of new
Garda buildings which is one of our biggest programmes with the Department of Justice. There are difficulties in putting in older Garda stations access facilities for the disabled because of their original design, but there is a rolling programme of improvement which includes Garda stations to which the Deputy referred. We will maintain that programme until such time as the totality of access to which he referred, particularly for those with hearing disabilities etc. which are not as obvious as physical disabilities, has been put in place.
Is it the Minister of State's intention to make the Chamber and the public gallery accessible for wheelchairs? I have campaigned for such access for years. It was not until Senator Crowley was elected to the Seanad that the House, including the Seanad Chamber, was made accessible for wheelchairs. This Chamber and the public galleries are not accessible for wheelchairs. Does the Minister of State not consider we should start to make progress in this area at home?
The Deputy will be aware that with the external refurbishment of this building access has been provided. However, I agree it is important that the most important forum for democracy should be accessible for all our citizens irrespective of their disabilities. I am reviewing various programmes of development specifically in this area. The Deputy can be assured I will consider and want to implement whatever changes are necessary to ensure total access at all levels to this building. There are ongoing improvements of which the Deputy is aware. There are some difficulties in providing access to certain listed buildings where it is difficult to find a compromise between preserving the facade of the building and providing access. We are conscious of that problem and try to overcome it.
I welcome the general positive thrust of the Minister of State's response. He is doubtless aware that it is now nearly a year since the publication of the report of the list of recommendations of the Commission on the Status of People with Disabilities. Will the Minister of State agree it is important that the State should move to implement those recommendations as they relate to accessibility? Will he indicate the full cost of the programme to which he referred in his reply? A million pounds while a good start seems a relatively small amount in terms of what will probably be needed to ensure full accessibility. Will he agree the Government should give its full support to implementing the commission's recommendations and should not be inhibited by what seems an extraordinary prohibition, the 4 per cent increase on gross supply services which the Government has imposed on itself?
The Office of Public Works has a rolling programme in place to deal with the refurbishment of buildings to ensure access for the disabled. All our new buildings will have modern access facilities.
Will the Minister give an estimate of the total cost of such work?
I asked that question also, but one of the difficulties in getting an answer to it stems from the fact that we do not have an assessment of the overall cost because there are so many different buildings, including listed and older buildings. It is not until we submit an application for planning that we can get an assessment of what will be granted in planning terms which determines how we can design access to buildings. The only figure I have been able to establish is that the cost for the Dublin area is about £6 million. There is no point in giving figures across the floor of the House as these costs may be tied up in planning matters and only emerge at the end. I hope I have been open with the Deputy in providing that information.
The Minister mentioned the conflict between conservation and access. Are guidelines available to the Office of Public Works and other bodies involved in the provision of access to listed buildings to provide a balance between conservation and access?
Regulations for the provision of facilities are set out but the design concept of every building must have the flexibility to ensure that its build module provides full access to a range of disabilities. It would be wrong to put that into a straitjacket of regulations which could be applied to every building. One must use common sense and the many skills available with the architectural services of the Office of Public Works to look at each building in turn to ensure we can incorporate access for the disabled into the design.
That a building is listed should not be an excuse for not providing access to it but it has been used in the past, although perhaps not by the Office of Public Works. For example, Dublin Corporation has refused planning permission to the National Association for the Deaf to modify its building but that is not in the Minister's brief. There may be access within a building but it may not be accessible from the street or people may be unable to cross the street to it. In those instances, does the Office of Public Works have a scheme to cover the surrounding environment, not just the building itself but the approaches to the building, as they may present people with major difficulties?
I do not want to give the impression that the Office of Public Works would use the listed status of a building as an excuse not to provide access for the disabled. The opposite is the case and the Deputy is well aware of the position at the National Gallery, the Four Courts, the Custom House, Leinster House, and the National Museums in Kildare Street and Merrion Street, to name but a few important buildings much used by the public where the Office of Public Works has provided access, although total internal access may not be provided. We have led the way in providing access and there is no question of the listed status of a building being used as a reason to ignore it. My commitment, and the view of the Office of Public Works, is that if a building is listed it is even more desirable that people have access to it.
As to the other question, the Office of Public Works does not have the right to consider the greater external access. Much of that comes under the domain of local authorities as to facilities in their areas. As a body, the Office of Public Works works with all local authorities to ensure that it maximises the access available.
