Vol. 482 No. 4
1 Mr. Spring asked the Taoiseach the meetings, if any, he or officials of his Department have had with representatives of the Irish Taxi Drivers' Federation or the National Taxi Drivers' Union since taking office; if so, the outcome of those meetings; whether he intends scheduling other meetings with those groups; the issues for discussions at future meetings; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18219/97]
The National Taxi Drivers' Union and the Irish Taxi Drivers' Federation were met, in my absence, by my programme manager on one occasion. The purpose of the meeting was to permit the taxi drivers to explain their position and set out the problems they are experiencing with the authorities.
As a result of the meeting I was briefed on the situation. I intend meeting the taxi drivers tomorrow, with a view to finding a way forward and putting a structure in place to permit dialogue and avoid a recurrence of the chaos we experienced on Thursday, 30 October.
Will the Taoiseach explain why Fianna Fáil members of the City Council and other Dublin local authorities played the role of defender of the monopoly of the taxi drivers and thwarted all progress? Does he accept the importance of the role of the taxi as an adjunct to other public transport in the city of Dublin and that it must be regulated, expanded and upgraded for the good of Dublin?
I do not know why any particular councillors did anything. Unfortunately, they do not consult on these matters nor do I ask them. I accept the importance of the taxi service. The present situation is chaotic and four councils have made different decisions which are totally contradictory and contributing to the chaos.
Has the Taoiseach met the organisation and, if not, does he intend to do so? He will be well aware that in the past number of months, prior to the General Election, members of his party had regular meetings with the Irish Taxi Drivers' Federation and the National Taxi Drivers' Union to whom many promises were made. Does the Taoiseach intend to fulfil those promises?
My programme manager had a meeting with both organisations some time ago and I intend meeting them tomorrow. I have had consultation with them. The difficulty is that there has been a number of reports on this issue. There has been grave difficulty in the councils over the past year, all of whom have taken different decisions. Unilateral decisions were introduced which have resulted in grave difficulties and the taximen have responded in an equally unilateral fashion. Neither has been helpful. I am meeting them with a view to finding a basis for a useful dialogue rather than the problems being collectively created.
(Dublin West): Will the Taoiseach agree that a balance is needed in the approach to the whole issue of taxi drivers in Dublin? Will he accept that the action by some politicians, particularly around Christmas, in denouncing the taxi drivers because of long queues is not helpful in the sense that one cannot judge the number of taxis needed throughout the year by the exceptional period at Christmas? Is the Taoiseach aware of an element of speculation in the taxi industry where individuals are buying up a large number of plates and trying to create a monopoly? We also have cosies, drivers who have no rights or security whatsoever, whose rights must not be exploited.
The Deputy is correct. There are many categories involved here, as well as a number of councils. The issues include taxi owners who do not drive, taxi drivers who drive and have other licences, those who rent licences, cosies, hackneys and others. There have been numerous reports and examinations of the problems but there has not been an adequate solution. Given the various categories, the difficulty is that every time a solution is put forward not everybody agrees. If people would agree to work together and abide by whatever recommendation is put forward, without cherrypicking, it would help. I have long experience of this problem. The situation has not changed since I first dealt with this issue 24 years ago and when I chaired a council group 20 years ago. I am not saying the position will change after tomorrow.
Is the Taoiseach aware the local authorities are not making different decisions but, in fact, made a compromise joint decision, after much debate, to issue 200 licences before Christmas? Two years ago this power was given to local authorities. Prior to that time the power rested with the Department of the Environment and because of inaction in that Department a monopoly was allowed to develop. The solution is not to set up a new body but rather that somebody has the political courage to make a decision once and for all.
While that may be the case, it was not a good idea to make a decision to grant 200 licences when a survey is being carried out to determine if additional licences are required. That merely set people against each other. It would have been more appropriate to wait until the survey was completed. The collective view of the House and the county councils is that 200 licences are required, but it is difficult to get people to say that. There are other decisions to be made regarding the £100 and the £450 and the question of a 5p increase since 1985 also arises. The rights of the hackney drivers and taximen must also be examined.
And the public.
That is true. Last week's actions will not help the public's view of matters. I would prefer if the issue were dealt with in a comprehensive manner. It is regrettable it surfaces every year in the run up to Christmas and then drifts until the following Christmas. This issue is almost as predictable as an all-Ireland final in that it nearly always arises in the first half of November. There must be another way to do business. While it may not be directly my responsibility, I know many of the groups involved and I will try to find a mechanism with which everyone agrees.
I welcome the Taoiseach's indication that he will try to find a suitable mechanism for dealing with the question of taxi licences. What avenues have been considered? Does he agree that an appropriate Department could work in conjunction with the four new local authorities to deal with the issue in the Dublin area? I have already taken up this matter with the Minister with responsibility for public affairs. Will the Government examine the feasibility of providing appropriate late night licensed public service vehicles through Bus Átha Cliath and Iarnrod Éireann's DART system?
Those matters can be considered. We must carry out a comprehensive examination. It is part of the modern day transport problem and everybody has a role to play. We must put in place a fair mechanism with which everybody agrees. In regard to the Deputy's suggestion about a single Department, responsibility for this matter was removed from a Department only 18 months ago because, in their collective wisdom, the councils believed they could deal with the matter in a more appropriate manner. I would hate to think my honourable friends in the councils are throwing in the towel after only 18 months and that the matter is back with the Taoiseach or the relevant Minister. From time to time the Taoiseach and councillors have to make unpopular decisions. We must sit down together to find a way forward on this issue. It is not helpful to say one thing at a council meeting and the opposite outside. It would be better if we were all truthful and tried to reach an agreeable mechanism. I will try to put in place such a mechanism, but it will be up to the councils to implement it.
