It is proposed to take No. 4b on a Supplementary Order Paper, motion re Leave to introduce Supplementary Estimates [Votes 20, 31 and 41] and, subject to the agree ment of No. 4b, to take Supplementary Estimates in the following order: [Votes 31, 41 and 20]; No. 11, Irish Film Board (Amendment) Bill, 1997, Second Stage (resumed); and No. 1, Turf Development Bill, 1997, Order for Second Stage and Second Stage. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: No. 4b on the Supplementary Order Paper shall be decided without debate and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; and subject to the agreement of No. 4b, each Supplementary Estimate shall be moved and debated separately and the following arrangements shall apply in each case. (i) The debate in each case shall not exceed one hour and at the conclusion of the debate on Vote 20 the three motions shall be decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair, and any division demanded thereon shall be taken forthwith; (ii) The opening speech of a Minister or Minister of State, of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party, and of each other Member called upon, shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; and (iii) A Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes in each case. Private Members' Business shall be No. 21 — motion re. Crime Policy (resumed).
Order of Business.
There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 4b agreed to?
I have no problem with this. However, before agreeing to it, I want to ask the Taoiseach whether he has made a firm decision as to when we will discuss the Estimates for next year. In particular, will they include the result of the Government's mid-term review of the Structural Funds with particular reference to the need, in that context, to allocate funds to remedy the dangerous situation that exists on our rail network?
I stated last week that once the Estimates had been published, which they were last Wednesday, I would have no difficulty with the Whips agreeing to an early date on which to debate the Estimates. All matters included in the Estimates will be debated and Members are free to raise any issues appertaining to the Estimates in the normal course of the debate.
I do not want to delay the House unduly but will the Taoiseach not agree that it is meaningless to discuss the Estimates without knowing the result of the mid-term review of the Structural Funds? Potentially, that will involve the reallocation of funds from one purpose to another. Has the Government yet made a decision on the mid-term review of the Structural Funds and, in that context, has it looked at the situation in regard to rail travel?
As regards the issue of rail travel, there are resources for transport in the Structural Funds, as the Deputy knows. No particular changes were made in the light of events that arose in the last two weeks. I am sure that is what the Deputy is referring to. As I understand it, the mid-term review of the Structural Funds was completed some months ago. I will arrange for the Deputy to receive a briefing on that if he so wishes.
Will the Government's decision on that matter be published before we discuss the Estimates? Otherwise, the Estimates debate will not be meaningful.
That is not the case. Structural Fund allocations in each year are included on the backing basis in the various Estimates, so the Estimates will stand on their own. As regards the mid-term review, I will ask the Department of Finance to give the Deputy any information he requires. The mid-term review work has been completed so there is no difficulty in providing that information.
Has the Government made decisions on it?
Yes.
The proposal before the House is to deal with No. 4b. I want to get the agreement of the House.
I am happy enough.
The proposal for dealing with No. 4b is agreed to.
I had intended raising questions on the Order of Business in respect of the Estimates. However, in deference to the procedures, I will agree to this item on the understanding that on the general Order of Business I will be able to pursue the questions that have been initiated.
I will come back to the Deputy on that matter. Are the proposals for dealing with Supplementary Estimates agreed to? Agreed.
Has the Taoiseach made any further progress with his proposals in regard to the local government funding Bill? Will it be published this month, as planned?
Yes, I hope the remaining matters will be resolved and finalised this week. That will allow the Minister for the Environment to complete the draft legislation. He should have it next week.
What are the precise arrangements for debating the Estimates next week? Will provision be made to ask questions on the same basis as the question and answer session on Committee Stage? Will we be able to discuss the mid-term review of the Structural Funds which is an integral part of the Estimates, particularly the public capital programme?
I have already stated there should be an early debate on the Estimates, although I was not aware of a request to allow questions. I understand the Whips are discussing the issue tonight. We did not have a question and answer session on the Estimates in the House, although that did happen at the committees.
Is the Government taking a neutral stance on whether the Estimates will be debated at the committees or in the House? If they are debated at the committees, which means a question and answer session, can the Taoiseach confirm that questions relating to the mid-term review will be admissible?
I have no problem in principle with a general debate on the Estimates in the House. It has been the practice for the past few years that the Estimates were debated here at Christmas time and then went to the committees for a question and answer session. That was a satisfactory system because it often took a day to get through the Estimates for one Department. I see no reason Members cannot raise issues relating to the mid-term review during the general debate on the Estimates to which the Minister for Finance can reply.
Instructions are now being given to local authorities, such as South Dublin County Council, to prepare tender documents for various bypasses because the money for Luas is being abandoned in the mid-term review. The Kinne-gad bypass has also been brought forward by informal, not written, instructions from the Department of the Environment. Can we ask questions about these issues and get comprehensive and clear answers from the Minister for Finance? I do not want the Minister to choose which questions he wishes to answer and which he wants to ignore at the end of a long and comprehensive debate, which is the format on offer from the Taoiseach.
We cannot have answers to that at this stage.
We have changed the system for debating the Estimates. What is on offer is the system which has been there for a number of years. People can still ask questions at committees and get detailed answers from Ministers.
That is too late.
If it is too late this year it was always too late.
We did not change our minds in the same way as this Government.
The Deputy is incorrect about Luas. It has not been abandoned from the mid-term review. I recall from Cabinet discussions that more money will be provided next year for Luas than there will be for planning.
I have sought information from the Taoiseach on a number of occasions about when local elections will be held. The Taoiseach has indicated a number of times that no decision has yet been made on whether they will be held next year. I understand the Taoiseach made a speech in Dún Laoghaire recently where he indicated they would not take place next year. When does he intend to introduce legislation before the House to defer the local elections?
A formal decision has not yet been made on this matter. I answered Deputy John Bruton's question earlier about the Bill on election funding. I understand that other issues relating to the Department of the Environment, including local elections, will be dealt with in that Bill.
The Minister announced it would be introduced before Christmas.
Approximately 80,000 people have lost their lives in atrocities in Algeria. We are members of the UN Commission on Human Rights this year. Will the Taoiseach facilitate an early debate on the Estimate of the Department of Foreign Affairs so that this matter can be raised and so that we can pursue—
That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.
—an early meeting of the UN?
It can be taken up with the Whips.
Some 80,000 people have lost their lives in atrocities in Algeria. It is clear the regime there does not respond to pressure. I am asking that the Estimates for the Vote of the Department of Foreign Affairs be brought forward so this matter can be raised and we can call for an early meeting of the UN Commission on Human Rights, of which we are a member this year. Will the Taoiseach facilitate a discussion in the House on that matter.
Question Time is at 2.30 p.m. We cannot have a mini Question Time every morning, which is what is happening. The Deputy should put down a question in the normal way for answer at the appropriate time.
Will the Taoiseach bring forward the Estimate of the Department of Foreign Affairs at an early date so that we can discuss the situation in Algeria and our role on the UN Commission on Human Rights, of which we are a member this year, so that we can have an early meeting of that commission to discuss the matter.
Asking for a debate on an Estimate on the Order of Business is not in order.
I am asking that this Estimate be brought forward.
It is not in order on the Order of Business.
It is in order to ask that the Estimate of the Department of Foreign Affairs be brought forward and I am asking that that be done. It is a very serious situation and Ireland has a role to play in this.
The Deputy has made his point.
I believe I am perfectly in order.
The Deputy is not in order in asking for a debate on the Order of Business.
I am asking that the Estimate be brought forward.
The Deputy should resume his seat.
I will resume my seat, but I believe that it is in order. It is an important matter.
The Chair decides.
On promised legislation, will the Taoiseach set the record straight. Yesterday the Minister for Health came into this House and gave answers to questions which were raised here on whether the health board was precluded in assisting a person to have an abortion.
I will not allow—
This is a very important matter.
—another discussion on the Order of Business on that subject today.
It relates to promised legislation.
Ask the precise question, please.
The Minister for Health did not give a clear answer on this despite it now being clear that the health board had been advised that it was precluded from assisting in any way.
That does not arise on the Order of Business. The Deputy must find another way. We had a long discussion yesterday.
Does the Taoiseach consider it inappropriate not to make a statement at this stage? Will he ask his Minister to come in here and clarify the situation?
It is an inappropriate time to ask these questions.
On promised legislation, some weeks ago I asked about the mental health Bill and was told it was at an advanced stage of drafting. Given that there has not been a debate on the report of the Inspector for Mental Hospitals for some years even though I understand it is an annual report, can the Taoiseach advance the publication of that Bill at least so that we can discuss more fully the issue of mental health?
I said the Bill would be ready in the spring of 1998. The Bill is to update the provisions for the detention for treatment of mentally disordered persons and to update the Mental Treatment Acts.
What is the present state of preparation of the copyright Bill given that Ireland has been threatened with penal action by the US because we have not enacted adequate copyright protection legislation? Will he indicate the arrangements being made for drafting this Bill and say when he expects it to be produced? Can he assure the House that Ireland will not suffer any penal action by the US for not enacting this legislation?
The Bill is linked to the international agreements with which we must comply. There are 190 heads in this Bill and I am told it will be after the summer before that legislation will be ready.
Is the Taoiseach cognisant of the threats the country will face in respect of the delay in introducing that legislation?
I am aware of those threats.
The Deputy knows it takes time to process a Bill which comprises almost 200 heads. This matter is urgent because Ireland must comply with a number of international agreements. However, the legislation will not be introduced before next autumn.
In light of the appalling ongoing atrocities committed by terrorists and Government forces in Algeria, will the Taoiseach consider asking Ireland's representative on the UN Human Rights Commission to request a special session to discuss Algeria?
That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.
With respect, this matter warrants consideration by the Government and our representative on the commission.
If, as the Taoiseach indicated, detailed answers will not be given to questions during the debate on the Estimates, can I take it that written questions will not be disallowed by the Chair and will be answered by the Government? Deputies on this side of the House will be anxious to obtain information that will not be forthcoming in the debate on the Estimates so that they can make meaningful contributions.
Hear, hear.
That is a matter for the House.
The Government has no control over the questions tabled by Deputies.
Can I take it that such questions will not be disallowed?
Will they be allowed?
The Chair cannot provide a ruling on a hypothetical question. The matter will be considered.
The Ceann Comhairle is probably the only Member of the House who is unconcerned about the prospect of a winter general election. Does the Taoiseach have knowledge of the whereabouts of Deputy Albert Reynolds? Is the Government making reasonable efforts to find him?
The whereabouts of any Deputy is not a matter for the Order of Business.
On behalf of Members on this side of the House I ask Deputy Reynolds, if he is out there, to "phone home".