John Bruton
Question:1 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to Belfast on 23 January 1998. [1167/98]
Ceisteanna—Questions. - Northern Ireland Issues.
John Bruton
Question:2 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent meeting with the Bloody Sunday relatives group. [1208/98]
Proinsias De Rossa
Question:3 Proinsias De Rossa asked the Taoiseach if he has received a response from the British Government to the submission on Bloody Sunday made by the last Government; if not, when it is expected that a reply will be received; the plans, if any, he has for the publication of the Irish document. [1586/98]
John Bruton
Question:4 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to Derry on 23 January 1998. [1700/98]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:5 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to Derry on 23 January 1998. [1929/98]
Ruairí Quinn
Question:6 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach the action, if any, his Government proposes to take on the British Government's response to the inquiry into Bloody Sunday; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1925/98]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive, together.
I very much welcome the British Prime Minister's announcement of the intention to establish a new, independent judicial tribunal of inquiry last Thursday. This has been continuously sought by me and by the Minister for Foreign Affairs in all of our contacts with the British Prime Minister and with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland since we took office, as it was by my predecessor, Deputy John Bruton, to whom I pay tribute for his excellent initiative in commissioning the Irish Government's assessment in the first place. As the House is aware, I authorised the publication of the assessment last Thursday, since it played such an important part in the decision to establish a new and independent inquiry. Having given the British Government sufficient time to fully consider its contents to enable it reach this decision, we published the assessment not in any spirit of recrimination, but as something that was owed to the victims and the relatives of the victims in the interest of truth and justice.
I take this opportunity to thank the British Prime Minister and acknowledge his strong interest in this matter leading to last week's welcome announcement. I also pay tribute to his steadfast commitment and unstinting efforts to establish the truth for the Bloody Sunday victims and relatives. I hope the new inquiry will help them to put the events of that terrible day behind them by finally establishing and acknowledging the truth of the tragic events of that day.
I visited Derry and Belfast on 23 January where I was met by Mr. John Hume, MP for Foyle; the Mayor of Derry, Councillor Martin Bradley, and a representative of the Secretary of State. My first call was breakfast with the Derry District Partnership which co-ordinates the implementation of the EU peace and reconciliation package in the Derry District Council area and brings together political representatives with representatives of the social partner organisations and voluntary community bodies. The attendance was representative of both communities, although DUP members did not attend and delivered a letter of protest at my visit. I was able to note the success of the partnership approach in Derry and elsewhere and add my support to all those maintaining cross-community links. I was also able to acknowledge the success of the credit union movement in Ireland and the strong tradition of self-help of the people of Derry when I called to Derry Credit Union in the Bogside and met staff and directors.
While in Derry I laid a wreath at the Bloody Sunday Memorial where I made a statement to and responded to the questions of the media. I met the victims and relatives of the victims of Bloody Sunday at a meeting also attended by Mr. John Hume, Mayor Martin Bradley, Mr. Martin McGuinness, Mr. Mitchel McLaughlin and the former Bishop of Derry, Edward Daly, where I paid tribute to the relatives' commitment and unstinting efforts to establish the truth.
While in Creggan I visited the headquarters of the Creggan Festival at the Ráth Mór Shopping Centre where I acknowledged the tremendous achievements of the Creggan community over the past 50 years and spoke of the essential need for a fair and balanced accommodation of the legitimate concerns of all. I stressed this could not be a purely internal settlement if there is to be an agreement but would have to include a meaningful North-South body to provide institutional expression for the Nationalist identity and a framework for practical common action on an all-island basis.
I paid a brief visit to St. Peter's school on Southway Road where I met governors, staff and pupils. I then visited the Derry City Council offices where I met the mayor, city councillors of all traditions and the leaders in Derry of the four main churches. I also met the North West Region Cross-Border Group which is comprised of elected representatives from Derry, Donegal, Limavady and Strabane where a presentation was made on the constructive developmental work being done by the group following which I spoke on and discussed a number of issues, including the Government's determination to secure an agreement which will bring peace and stability.
In Belfast I was the first speaker in a weekly series of political lunches organised by the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce and Industry. I spoke on a number of issues and, having outlined the role of positive hands-on action by Government, pro-active public policy and effective executive agencies in our economic success in the Republic, stressed the need for effective public policy and executive agencies on an all-island basis if we are to gain the advantages of a single island economy and thus the need for a North-South ministerial council and implementation bodies with executive functions at an all-island level. I also highlighted the need to sustain the talks and achieve a widely acceptable settlement.
While meeting a group of senior students at Campbell College in Belfast to which I had received an invitation, who were joined by senior students at Strathearn and Bloomfield Collegiate, I had an opportunity to talk about our approach to peace and how best we think it will be achieved. I had a private meeting with the Secretary of State, Dr. Mo Mowlam.
It was a useful and positive trip and I availed of the opportunity to make clear to all communities the Government's commitment to achieving a fully balanced settlement based on agreement.
I thank the Taoiseach for his kind words. Does he believe the talks will have achieved an agreement which will be robust and detailed enough to put to the people in a referendum on both sides of the Border by the May deadline? If not, what interim arrangements does he envisage might be agreed by May that would allow us have the referendum somewhat later and allow for further detailed work to be done in the meantime to bring it up to a level where it could be put to the people in a referendum? Will he agree that anything put to the people must contain answers to all questions they may ask? Also, will the Taoiseach give the House some details on his plans to incorporate the European Convention on Human Rights into the domestic law of the Republic in view of the fact that the Government committed itself to this in the propositions document? Will this convention supersede the existing provisions of our Constitution and, if so, what are the implications of that, particularly for the Articles on the family. How does the Taoiseach intend that we would fulfil this commitment contained in the propositions document in regard to the European convention?
To be helpful to the House, most of the next block of questions are on the talks.
I am sorry, I thought the Taoiseach had taken all of them together.
No, I only took the questions on Bloody Sunday. I will come back to the other questions.
I would be happy with that.
In respect of Questions Nos. 1 to 6 and the comprehensive reply the Taoiseach has given, I trust he got an opportunity to get something to eat in the course of the day. The Taoiseach made specific reference to the expedition he made to the Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce and Industry during which he outlined the benefits for an all-Ireland economy of North-South executive type operations within the framework of the Council of Ministers. I am not asking the Taoiseach to reveal any confidences but what was the reaction, either privately or publicly, from what would have been a predominantly Unionist business community, to the idea of North-South all-Ireland executive bodies exercising economic related functions on behalf of the all-Ireland economy?
I answered questions for some time after the lunch and I concluded that nobody had any great difficulty with that, particularly in terms of the economic aspects of the island economy. That has been the case since I first attended seminars by Dr. Quigley some years ago when he led that campaign, even before IBEC and the CBI formally constructed their relationships. Obviously the business community would want to see all the detail worked out but they do not have a difficulty with it. The chairman asked people not to be over political, and judging from the questions put to me on the business side — they were not all to do with business, some were loaded — it was very much the view of business people that if there was a benefit for the island in terms of the European enlargement process, they wanted to be part of it. Some issues were of major concern to them such as corporation tax, etc.
In regard to the Taoiseach's visit to Derry, will he join with me in condemning the threats issued to a number of prominent Unionist people living in the city, one of whom has said he will have to leave his home in Eglinton, near Derry, because of the threats to him? Will he also join with me in condemning the threats made to the Secretary of State and to Catholics in general by another organisation? Will he agree that the achievement of a political settlement is rendered much more difficult if it is increasingly exceptional for people to live in mixed areas and if they will only live in areas where their own community is in a majority? If that is the case will the Taoiseach agree it will be very difficult for people to develop the sense of cross-community understanding that is necessary to underpin any political settlement?
I would join with the Deputy in condemning all of those threats. Unfortunately, in the past number of weeks threats have been issued not only by known organisations but by unknown organisations. I cannot be sure of the extent to which those threats are real. I have been unable to get any real information from security sources on some of these organisations. It is considered some of them are bogus, but they are serious enough to be believed. Apparently a number of younger members of those organisations are freelancing to some extent and that is a cause for concern. I am very well aware of some of those operating in Derry and of others. Threats made against the Secretary of State and other key figures must be condemned. However, those threats are designed to have the effect of heightening tension, creating fear and disharmony and trying to undermine what people are involved in. We will have to do all we can to speak out against those people and declare that they cannot stop the democratic process. I know other party leaders have had experiences similar to those I had last week when meeting people from some communities. When I was in Derry I met people from both sides of the community. The situation there is not nearly as bad as in Belfast and the residents of Derry were quick to point that out.
Some of these acts are not unfamiliar when compared to what has happened through the years. They are part of the same strategy that has been followed since the 1920s. At certain times tension is heightened to create these situations. A similar ploy is used by different sides on occasions. It is wrong to say this ploy has been used by only one side. I have rejected that claim. In spite of all of that and the intentions of those people, we must all continue to try to move forward the process.
In relation to my Question No. 3 on Bloody Sunday, I thank the Taoiseach for his remarks about the previous Government's efforts in that regard. I also congratulate him for having levered the outcome arrived at last week. There were some concerns in previous weeks that we would only get a review of the Widgery tribunal and not a full-scale inquiry. That decision is to be welcomed. Will the Taoiseach use his good offices with Sinn Féin as a quid pro quo to press the IRA to identify the location of the bodies of those who have disappeared to enable their families to give them a burial with some dignity? If that step were taken, it would contribute greatly to confidence building in Northern Ireland.
In the context of the Taoiseach's remarks when he indicated during his visit to Derry that there could not be a purely internal settlement, which I believe is a position shared by all parties in this House, will he agree that implies there needs to be an assembly in Northern Ireland and if a North-South body is to be an intergovernmental or interministerial body such an assembly will have to have Ministers and that people who stand aside from negotiating for an assembly of that kind are not facing the realities of the three stranded approach?
I thank the Deputy for his remarks. The answer to the first part of his question is yes. I have again renewed a request that Sinn Féin use whatever contacts it has in regard to these issues. I stated in the House on a number of occasions in reply to questions raised by Deputy Currie on this issue that I believe there are people who must know the possible location and whereabouts of the missing persons. It would be a very helpful confidence building measure if an attempt were made to resolve that issue. Given the passage of time, I am not saying that it can be resolved as simply as that. We know this measure was used in other countries as part of a settlement to deal with these issues. We discussed that a long time ago at the forum. I will continue to urge for action to be taken in this area.
On the Northern Assembly, I have always accepted there will be some type of assembly. While this was not stated clearly in the forum document, it was interpreted in that way at the time. There are those outside this House who argue that because the Framework Document did not state this, it was not there. However, the British Government issued its document on the same day. When we were in Government, we negotiated 90 per cent of that document and it was clearly understood that was the position. That did not change in the other 10 per cent of the negotiations and it is a nonsense to suggest so.
The three strand approach, and this has been accepted since the then Secretary of State, Mr. Brooke, put forward the proposition, is interlocking. Whatever assembly structure or body is established in Northern Ireland has to be understood as part of the three strand approach and the overall process. If it is not, it will not be accepted by any Nationalists. It is helpful if it can be explained in that context. I raised the issue in the Creggan because people questioned our position. If it is put in the other context of an internal arrangement, the North part of a North-South body derives its power from nowhere if there is no structure there. I have yet to hear anyone give any coherent argument longer than one sentence of how that can be done.
We are talking about a Northern assembly which evolves into a North-South ministerial body. Having a strong Northern assembly is how one gets to a position where there is a strong North-South body. I have not heard a good argument against that either.
The Green Party is relieved there will be a new inquiry into Bloody Sunday. I thank the Taoiseach, the Government and the British Prime Minister for their co-operation and work in bringing it about. Will the Government ensure that all relevant information will be available to the inquiry? Is the Taoiseach aware there is a moratorium to the year 2047 on some official British medical records? Will he ensure that witnesses can examine all relevant information before giving evidence? Does he agree that if there is a problem in obtaining records, the objectivity of the inquiry will be called into question and it is vital to resolve this issue before it begins?
The tribunal, which will be set up under the 1921 Act, will have the powers of a High Court. It will have the ability to gain access to papers, call witnesses and deal with all of the issues a tribunal can deal with. There will be no difficulty with its powers to access any information and we will examine whatever details surface. Our representation, including observers, will also be looked at carefully.
In so far as Lord Saville is concerned, we will wait to see who are the other people involved. I believe they will be eminent people of an independent nature.
I ask Members to be brief as there is a large number of questions to the Taoiseach and we will try to deal with as many as possible today.
Unfortunately, we will have no time limit on the main bulk of questions now.
We have to conclude questions to the Taoiseach at 3.20 p.m. I ask Members to pose brief supplementaries on this remaining set of questions.
We have not dealt with the talks at all.
If it would be helpful, because of the importance of the Bloody Sunday issue, I could take that separately and then take the other group of questions which covers everything.
That would be the best way of facilitating everyone, if the Taoiseach would allow a limit.
I do not wish to limit it, I can see what would happen.
We could spend the next 15 minutes on these matters.
It is my turn, but I wish to be helpful to the House so I will reserve my questions until the Taoiseach has given his main reply.
(Dublin West): I welcome the inquiry into Bloody Sunday. Can the Taoiseach and the Government guarantee this inquiry will be truly independent and objective and will put the search for truth above all partisan political considerations, unlike the barefaced whitewash that took place under Widgery? Does the Taoiseach know whether the most senior relevant authorities of the British Army will be willing to give evidence?
The begrudging response by Mr. Trimble, the Leader of the Official Unionists, is extremely unfortunate and does not help to ease the current tensions among the communities in the North of Ireland.
The Deputy should confine himself to asking a question, and not make comments.
(Dublin West): Although Bloody Sunday is in a particular category because of official State terror, will the Taoiseach agree it is crucial that we acknowledge publicly that the Protestant community has also suffered hugely over 25 years from sectarian and paramilitary outrages? It is vital to acknowledge that in the interest of equality and how the communities are treated and regarded in the North.
We agree all sides of the community have suffered. In reply to the Deputy's first question, we are not running the tribunal so I cannot guarantee what the Deputy asked. However, I am prepared to accept what the British Prime Minister has told me. I am pleased with the judge picked. I have seen Lord Saville's track record. The British public and political system want to see this issue dealt with. An editorial published in the last few days stated it would be in the best interests of all of the people in Northern Ireland, Unionists as well as Nationalists, for this matter to be despatched permanently to the history books. The only way that can happen is if the truth is seen to be achieved.