Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Mar 1998

Vol. 488 No. 2

Private Members' Business. - Homelessness Problem: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Hayes on Tuesday, 3 March 1998:

That Dáil Éireann condemns the Government for its failure to put in place a comprehensive policy initiative to address the growing problem of homelessness and to provide a co-ordinated and comprehensive interdepartmental response to this growing crisis as it affects adults and children, with its related problems of crime and drug abuse.

Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:

"Dáil Éireann supports the comprehensive framework of measures in place and being developed in response to homelessness whether among adults or children, in particular the continuing action of the Minister for Housing and Urban Renewal to secure effective mobilisation and co-ordination of the resources of the statutory and voluntary sectors in tackling adult homelessness; and the initiatives announced recently by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children in regard to alleviating the problem of homelessness among young people."

—(Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Molloy)

Mr. Stagg

The most severe form of homelessness is that experienced by those who cannot secure even temporary shelter and are obliged to sleep rough. Among the settled community there is a small number of such people. The Minister of State mentioned that there were approximately ten such people in Dublin city on a given night. Despite the problem of drug addiction and other related problems, shelter can and should be provided for this group as a priority. It is not outside the bounds of the imagination of the Minister of State, his officials and the voluntary agencies to come up with a solution to this vexed question. It was done before at the request of Deputy Albert Reynolds when Taoiseach. It can be done again.

There is a much larger group of people who are forced to sleep rough permanently. As far as I am aware, they have not been mentioned in this debate. A total of 1,120 families from the travelling community live and sleep on the side of the road without the benefit of water and sanitary services. This figure does not include families accommodated on permanent or temporary halting sites. As travellers generally have large families, it is estimated that about 10,000 men, women and mostly children are condemned to these inhuman conditions which are so dreadful that the mortality rate among their children is ten times that of the settled community. We have condemned these children to conditions that lead to their early death. It is a measure of the degree of inherent discrimination in our so-called Christian society against these families that the death of children goes practically unnoticed. If this was occurring even among the poorest of the settled community, there would be an outcry and action would be taken.

The main reason for the premature death of these children is that they have to sleep rough from the day they are born until the day they die. The Minister of State with responsibility for housing and the Minister of State with responsibility for children should put aside any departmental turf wars and pool their resources to tackle once and for all the scandal of children dying on the side of the road for the want of adequate accommodation. We can no longer use the excuse that we do not have the resources. We must demonstrate that we have the political will to overcome the ingrained prejudice of the settled community and bring to an end this shame, scandal and blemish on our good name.

I draw the attention of the House to what I describe as the Maynooth model where the local community identified a site as being suitable for development as a halting site for travelling families. The families concerned have been living on the site where sanitary facilities are not as good as those in normal housing for seven years. The local authority and the Department have agreed to provide facilities on a pilot basis to allow the families concerned to sit down together to eat.

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government (Mr. D. Wallace)

I wish to share my time with the Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation, Deputy Flood, and Deputy Ryan.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. D. Wallace

While there are a number of socio-economic indicators of poverty and social deprivation in any society, in many ways, homelessness represents one of the most extreme manifestations of desperation and isolation. In many instances, the homeless person has gone through a number of stages of deterioration in the circumstances of his or her life. While the factors which can, ultimately, result in a person becoming homeless are varied and, sometimes, extremely complex and specific to an individual, one can be reasonably certain about a number of the circumstances of a homeless man, woman, teenager or child. He or she is unlikely to have resources of any consequence outside the supports provided by State or voluntary agencies and organisations. Unemployment is almost a certainty.

The homeless person will often have grossly inadequate clothing and is, therefore, very much at the mercy of the elements. Allied to the risk of undernourishment, the health implications can frequently be extremely serious and must be a matter of grave concern.

A third consequence of homelessness is an ever increasing loss of self-esteem and identity. Research clearly indicates that once a person has got over the initial shock of finding himself or herself without a permanent home, a sense of apathy and hopelessness is likely to progressively develop until the individual sees no chance of recovering his or her previous status in life. For those of us who have been fortunate not to experience such deprivation, it is impossible to adequately describe the associated sense of loneliness and utter isolation.

As if the combined impact of resource deprivation, exposure to the elements, illness and acute loneliness were not enough, yet another major hurdle lies ahead of an increasing proportion of homeless people. Many such people suffer from one form or another of substance addiction. While traditionally alcohol abuse was most closely identified with homelessness, the dire consequences of drug abuse are increasingly imposing an upward trend on the number of people without a permanent and secure place of residence.

There is no doubt that effectively tackling the problem of homelessness must be a priority. This is particularly true in the context of a growing economy and ever increasing spending power on the part of the more affluent sections of society. While effective action continues to be a priority from a humanitarian point of view, it is in the vital self-interest of all members of society to deal with the problem of homelessness.

Before considering some of the specific options open to us to effectively tackle homelessness, I wish to refer to two developments which will in no way help the cause of those suffering from the most extreme form of social hardship. It is vital that all our efforts and contributions in this House are firmly focused on ultimately exerting a real impact on the problem of homelessness. It is all too easy to proclaim loudly and at length on the issue while, at the same time, failing to propose a single effective step to counter the evil of homelessness. Such an approach serves neither the victims of homelessness nor the stature of the political process.

There is little merit in putting forward poorly thought out proposals or indulging in general criticism of the system. Such an approach only confuses the situation and contributes absolutely nothing to the future well-being of the homeless. The only moral and responsible way forward is to fully acknowledge the complexity and diversity of the factors and circumstances which give rise to homelessness. Similarly, the springboard for progress in this area involves a full recognition of all agencies and individuals, whether in the State or voluntary sectors, who have made and continue to make a substantial contribution in the primary and secondary campaigns against homelessness. Too often, an exclusive focus on the size of the remaining problem only acts as a serious source of discouragement for the many people who have achieved so much in tackling this appalling problem.

I make a strong plea for balance in our approach to effectively and comprehensively tackling homelessness. If significant progress is to be achieved in this area, there are a number of essential steps to be taken, many of which have been outlined by my ministerial colleagues, Deputies Molloy and Fahey.

There is a need for substantial further research on the current level of homelessness. The associated trend over time is, equally, of vital importance. Research must help to establish an increasingly comprehensive profile of those who are being drawn into the homeless category. A full profiling of the problem is an essential first step in the ongoing campaign against homelessness. The work under way under the direction of Dublin Corporation is likely to prove extremely useful in terms of providing an up-to-date benchmark of the problem. Second, the various pathways of directly tackling unemployment need to be further developed and strengthened. The programme of building 3,900 new houses during 1998 is a major practical step in the required direction.

The contribution of the voluntary housing capital assistance scheme is substantial with £37 million paid in respect of related projects. The rental subsidy scheme has also played a major role in effectively tackling the problem of homelessness. The facility which allows local authorities recoup related expenditure from our Department is being availed of to an increasing extent, reaching £6 million in 1997.

The only prudent and responsible way forward is to maximise, to the fullest degree possible, all the information available on the problem of homelessness. The issue is far too complex and diverse to offer any hope of significant success for any campaign or programme which is essentially one dimensional. I stress the importance and the enormous potential of programmes such as the Dublin Homeless Initiative, which was established in late 1996 to secure better co-ordination and delivery of services for homeless people in the Eastern Health Board region covering Dublin, Kildare and Wicklow.

It is only correct and proper this House keeps a close watch on the level of progress being achieved in the vital battle against homelessness in our society. It is vital that all our energies and resources are focused on bringing relief to those afflicted by this terrible personal tragedy. It is equally important to develop optimal support structures, recovery services and preventive strategies.

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Mr. Flood)

I am pleased to have an opportunity to participate in tonight's debate on homelessness. This is a very important issue that is primarily the concern of local authorities and health boards. I have particular interest in this problem because of the increasing levels of homelessness among drug users.

I wish to bring to the attention of the House a study carried out by the Merchants Quay Project between May and October of last year. It showed that of a sample 663 first time attendees at the project, 93, or 14 per cent, of them were reported homeless. It is reasonable to assume that sample study reflects a trend among Dublin drug users generally. Given the profile of a typical heroin addict, the figures are not altogether surprising. Heroin users tend to come from areas characterised by very high levels of social and economic disadvantage. They are often poorly educated, have little or no employment prospects and, generally speaking, have dysfunctional family backgrounds. Many young drug users leave home due to family breakdown where parental conflict, alcoholism and parental drug use create an untenable living environment for them.

The homeless drug users who presented to the Merchants Quay Project were reported to be leaving their homes or institutions to live in unstable accommodation such as hostels, sleeping rough, in squats, staying with friends or in bed and breakfasts. Until recently the main source from which young people came was institutions such as residential care, prison or psychiatric hospitals. A study conducted by Focus Point and the Eastern Health Board in 1989 found that 38 per cent of homeless persons in selected areas had been in residential care.

More recently drug users who have left their homes in the suburbs and moved towards the inner city present to drugs and homeless agencies with various crises about shelter, health, the need for drug injecting equipment or legal support. Many simply attend to have a friendly space to rest in and to wash and change their clothes before going back on the streets. There is evidence to suggest that this recent trend of young drug users leaving their local areas may be related to some extent to the growing activity of local resident and community groups which are seeking to create drug free environments in their estates. As most drug users engage in supplying drugs to other users, the label "pusher" can be and is applied to many of them. Some drug users will leave home and their area to protect their families from becoming the focus of local hostility. Others have been targeted by these groups for selling drugs and they respond to this pressure by leaving home.

Of the 93 persons reported homeless in the survey conducted by the Merchants Quay Project, just over one third, or 34, were staying in hostels, with more males than females doing so. Most hostels tend to give priority places to people who are over 25 years and as the demand on hostel places is very high, the remainder of young drug users have to seek other shelter options. Almost one third of the sample, 29, were sleeping rough. The next preferred option was staying with friends. Twenty-eight per cent reported that status and the friends with whom they were staying were more than likely injecting drug users. Only 3 per cent of those surveyed were reported as squatting, while one person, a female, was staying in bed and breakfast. Over half the homeless in the sample were new injectors, injecting only in the past year or so. This recent behaviour coincides with high levels of risk taking, like sharing equipment by both borrowing and by lending. This suggests either a low awareness of the risks of HIV and hepatitis C transmission and/or a difficulty in accessing safer injecting equipment. With regard to the health and wellbeing of the sample group, a quarter of the homeless drug users interviewed had overdosed in the previous three months, 8 per cent reported having hepatitis B, 17 per cent hepatitis C, 14 per cent had been to prison, 59 per cent were feeling isolated and 74 per cent were diagnosed as being depressed.

Those statistics, which are based on a sample group, give a fair indication of the nature and extent of the problem citywide. If the lifestyle of drug misusers generally is chaotic, those who are also homeless must lead particularly unstable lives and be in need of urgent intervention by the statutory agencies. It is for that reason I requested the National Drugs Strategy Policy Group to examine the issue of homeless drug users and to report back to me. In examining this matter, the policy group is availing of the expertise and knowledge of the National Drugs Strategy Team, which had identified this problem as one of the gaps in the action plans prepared by the local drugs task forces to tackle drug misuse in their areas.

The lack of strategies to address this issue in the task force plans reflects the fact that homeless drug users tend to drift away from their areas of residence, thus making it difficult to cater for their needs in plans which are primarily locally based. It also points to how difficult it is to plan for the needs of a clientele which leads a particularly chaotic and unstable lifestyle. Notwithstanding these difficulties, it is an issue which must be addressed and I look forward to receiving shortly the report and recommendations of the National Drugs Strategy Policy Group on this matter, which is of vital importance.

I would like to take this opportunity to report to the House on progress in the implementation of some other aspects of the Government's drugs initiative because it impinges on the subject matter of this debate. Deputies will be aware that the local drugs task forces were set up in the 12 areas in Dublin identified as having the highest levels of heroin addiction. A task force was also established in north Cork city, where a significant drug problem exists. The task forces represent a targeted and integrated response to the drug problem. They are focused in areas where the problem is at its worst. They provide a mechanism for the relevant statutory agencies to co-ordinate their programmes and services in these areas and they afford an opportunity for local people to work in partnership with these agencies in developing strategies to respond to the drug problem in their communities. All the task forces have submitted their action plans and, following their evaluation by the National Drugs Strategy Team, funding of £10 million has been allocated by the Government to support the implementation of those plans.

The strategies contained in the action plans provide for a wide range of interventions by the statutory agencies and community groups to provide a locally based response to the drug problem. The interventions deal with education-prevention, treatment, rehabilitation and supply issues. The task forces have commenced the process of implementing their agreed strategies and the National Drugs Strategy Team is monitoring their progress.

Deputies will also be aware that the Cabinet drugs committee established by the previous Administration has been reconstituted and is now a wider committee to tackle the problem of social disadvantage in its broadest sense. This reflects the fact that problem drug use is just one of the symptoms of social and economic exclusion. It is widely acknowledged that the best long-term solution to the problem of social exclusion, in general, and drug misuse, in particular, is to give young people in disadvantaged areas the same life opportunities as those who come from more privileged backgrounds. This involves, among other things, the development of educational opportunities designed to meet their needs, the provision of sport and recreational facilities where they do not exist and better employment opportunities.

It was against this background that the Cabinet committee last year initiated a review of the programmes being delivered to assist disadvantaged young people. Arising from this review, the Government recently announced a programme for young people at risk, the centrepiece of which will be the young people's facilities and services fund. The Government will commit £30 million to this fund over the next three years to enable a range of capital and non-capital projects to be initiated to entice these young people into healthy, life enhancing activities. At least £20 million of this sum will be targeted at areas where there is a serious heroin problem. The detailed arrangements for the operation of the fund are being finalised and I hope to present my proposals on this matter to the Cabinet subcommittee in the near future.

The Government has initiated and continues to implement an extensive programme of action to tackle drug abuse. I am particularly conscious of the problem of homeless drug users and propose to give this issue my full attention in the coming months.

Mr. Ryan

I am delighted to speak on this issue as many of the people who are homeless live in my constituency of Dublin South East. We need to ask why at a time of economic prosperity homelessness occurs to such an extent. We need more information on homelessness and its cause and effects. We also need to act on the information we have and to ensure resources which are available are used to optimum effect. There are no short-term answers to this problem, which is very serious and will take time and patience to resolve.

The profile of homeless people has changed considerably in recent years. Many homeless people are comparatively young and their homelessness is due to one or more factors, such as family breakdown, alcohol or drug addiction, psychological problems or, because the economy is doing so well, they cannot stand the pace of life. Maybe some of the homeless are quiet gentle people who will cause no harm to themselves or others and who have decided to drop out. There are many different people in this group which means dealing with homelessness is often not only a question of providing accommodation but of providing services to assist people in dealing with and overcoming their problems and in helping them to cope by themselves.

The answer is to co-ordinate the services provided by statutory and voluntary bodies and to develop strategies to shorten the length of time during which people are homeless. We need services, in particular resettlement services, to help homeless people to move out of hostels and emergency accommodation towards independent living. Often there is great resentment among the settled community to the establishment of centres for homeless people. Unfortunately, people in my constituency objected to small numbers of homeless people moving into homes to help them move towards independent living. That attitude is a fact of life in some areas of Dublin and elsewhere.

Voluntary bodies have long been involved in providing accommodation and services for homeless people. It is essential that the experience and expertise of voluntary bodies is combined with the resources available to the statutory bodies to provide the necessary accommodation and services for homeless people. Under the Housing Act, 1988, local authorities are responsible for providing for the accommodation needs of homeless people and have provided funding, both capital and current, for this. The powers of local authorities in this regard are extensive and varied.

Local authorities have a range of powers to enable them to provide an effective response to the accommodation needs of homeless people. The maintenance of the local authority housing programme at a high and consistent level benefits the homeless in common with other people seeking housing. A substantial part of the accommodation provided under the voluntary housing scheme administered by local authorities has been for homeless persons. The terms and conditions of these schemes were significantly improved in 1997 and will continue to play an important part in meeting housing needs.

Apart from capital funding, local authorities have wide and flexible powers under section 10 of the Housing Act, 1988, to provide or fund accommodation for homeless people. This includes contributions to voluntary bodies providing such accommodation and meeting the cost of accommodation arranged directly by local authorities and by health boards on their behalf. Some 90 per cent of this expenditure is recouped by the Department of the Environment and Local Government. In 1997 the Department paid £6 million in recoupment to local authorities for their expenditure in providing or funding accommodation for homeless people, including the emergency accommodation provided by the Eastern Health Board on behalf of Dublin Corporation and contributions to voluntary bodies. This Government is fully committed to alleviating homelessness and the Minister of State with responsibility for housing and urban renewal has made it one of his priorities.

I was pleased to see the establishment of the Dublin homeless initiative which has been in operation for just over one year. It was established to co-ordinate the provision of accommodation and services for homeless people in the Dublin-Kildare-Wicklow area. Given that more than 60 per cent of homeless people are in the Dublin area and the number of statutory and voluntary authorities in the area providing accommodation and services for homeless people, the initiative was very welcome. I am particularly pleased that the voluntary bodies have an important role in the operation of the initiative and I hope it will continue to develop. Homelessness is often a complex matter requiring a co-ordinated response so the initiative's co-ordinating role is very important.

There has been much public concern about the recent Simon assessment of the numbers sleeping rough in Dublin. The figures quoted seem very high and I understand the Dublin Corporation estimate of people sleeping rough on a nightly basis is considerably lower. While people may sleep rough by choice during good weather, it is difficult to visualise someone doing so in bad weather. It is important to understand the dynamics of the situation so that the appropriate responses may be made. I understand Dublin Corporation, in conjunction with Simon, is preparing an update on the number of people on the streets of Dublin. I hope it will be finalised next week.

We need to look at what can be done to provide accommodation for these categories of people sleeping rough. The cold weather strategy which Dublin Corporation introduced in January 1998 to supplement the available accommodation in times of bad weather is an important step in ensuring accommodation is available for people who need it. I congratulate the corporation on this strategy. There is an increased supply of hostel accommodation in Dublin. Dublin Corporation has a hostel in Maple House where it has 25 beds. It recently got an extra four and is building an extension to accommodate an extra ten. It also has Marlborough Place and is upgrading the model lodging house. Many hostels have been redeveloped in recent years and now provide accommodation of a high standard. The Dublin Simon Community premises on Island Street and Ushers Island and the Society of St. Vincent de Paul's night shelter at Back Lane are in my constituency. The Salvation Army Hostel at York Street, which is also in my constituency, has provided much needed accommodation for homeless men for many years.

The Government is providing funding for housing for people in need, whether through the local authority or the social housing programme. Funding approved for this in 1998 is higher than ever before. We cannot overlook the needs of homeless people. I was reassured by the Minister's contribution to this debate and know he has a keen interest in this area. I welcome his assurance that he will monitor the situation on a regular basis and will take whatever steps he can.

I also welcome the corporation's review, which is very important. There are, however, other areas in which we could have an immediate effect. More move-on accommodation is essential to allow extra time to be devoted to helping people towards independent living. Catering for the special needs of such people is essential and it will take time, money and much patience. Many well trained and committed people will be needed. People with special needs in this area need time and commitment. It is a complex area where many things other than money are needed. Funding is essential and more should be made available.

Everyone is uncomfortable and embarrassed when they encounter someone lying rough on the streets and people ask why this happens. While two Governments have increased funding — Deputy McManus, when she was Minister, put much time and effort into the area and this Government has also done the same — more needs to be done. There are no short-term answers. Extra funding is needed, with patience and commitment, because these people need much care to guide them towards independent living.

Ms McManus

I wish to share time with Deputies Naughten, Sheehan and Fitzgerald.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Ms McManus

I thank Fine Gael for introducing this motion. It is an important issue which is not given enough attention or focus. There is a general concern among the public that, on the one hand, there is the success story of the growth in the economy, and on the other, tragic stories of children, women and men sleeping rough or in hostels or bed and breakfasts because they have no home of their own. The profile of homeless people has changed considerably recently. The average age has lowered and the problems have become more serious, especially in the areas of drug addiction and child sexual abuse.

When I became Minister, I decided to make it a priority of my term in office to ensure progress was made in the area of homelessness. I visited all accommodation units in the greater Dublin area and met the statutory and voluntary agencies. I was struck not only by their commitment and dedication but also by the lack of co-ordination on the issue of homelessness, even between the two Government Departments. That is how the homelessness initiative evolved. I launched it in 1996 and provided funding for it. I am grateful to the Deputies who endorsed the usefulness of that initiative.

However, better administration, co-operation and partnership is not the sole factor in resolving the issue and needs of homeless people. Social conditions determine the level of homelessness and I am deeply concerned that we now live in a society where the political direction appears to be to deepen the gulf between the better off and the poor rather than building the bridges I believe are necessary. When this Government came into office, it downgraded the role of the Minister for children and significantly reduced the allocation for the drugs task forces. It was forced to backtrack on those two issues, by the UN Commission in one instance and by local communities, especially in the inner city, on the other, and to return the situation to what it had been previously. What concerns me most was evidenced in the budget where £40 million was effectively handed as a gift to what I describe as the undeserving rich. Such a sum would have made a huge difference to the organisations dealing with the needs of the homeless in this city and around the country. Through the reduction in capital gains tax, that £40 million has effectively gone into the pockets of the very wealthy in society.

When we have money, and there is much of it in the economy at present, we have an opportunity to deal with homelessness effectively and in an integrated manner. Money alone will not solve the problems. Committed and dedicated political leadership and direction is needed, but we do not have that at the moment. It is the greatest need and has been highlighted in terms of tackling the issue of child homelessness. Serious problems exist. Dr. Anthony Clare described the Eastern Health Board as operating a fire brigade service of crisis management with no strategy to deal with the serious needs of children at risk or who are homeless. Such a strategy must be put in place but it will not be if a system is maintained where a junior Minister without power and resources is left to carry the can for the failure, especially by the Taoiseach, to deal with this in an effective manner.

One group of homeless people has not been mentioned. They live on the roadside, often in appalling conditions. Many travellers are homeless in a manner which has been tolerated for too long. When I was in office, I set it as a priority to deal with the accommodation requirements of travellers. I am extremely disappointed the Minister has not published the legislation to tackle this difficult issue. It was promised before Christmas but we have yet to see it. People should remember that many travellers who live in the most appalling conditions imaginable must be included when considering the needs of homeless people.

Mr. Naughten

I thank Deputy McManus for sharing her time. Homelessness is not selective. It affects men and women, young and old, married and single. The ravages of social exclusion now bite deep at our children. A recent Simon Community survey has shown that 70 people, or 46 per cent of the total number of homeless persons met during the compilation of the survey, were under the age of 25. In addition, many less visible young people are out of home and live in highly insecure and unsatisfactory conditions, such as moving from one friend's home to another.

A range of factors lead to a young person being out of home. It is generally agreed that family problems are the most significant factor. Conflict arising from physical, sexual or emotional abuse or neglect can make home life intolerable for a young person. Those who were brought up in care are highly likely to become homeless — one third according to one survey. There is also a significant link between early school leaving and homelessness. Due to the absence of a coherent strategy and co-ordination between the voluntary and statutory sectors and the continuing breakdown in many families, the problem is likely to become more acute in the years to come.

The drug problem is also a major factor in causing homelessness, especially among young people. A survey published today shows that 53 per cent of young people have taken drugs, with little variation between urban and rural areas. This clearly shows drugs are freely available throughout the country. It is obvious the increased seizure of illegal drugs by the Garda is failing to combat the problem. Increased resources must concentrate on education and preventative measures to reduce the demand for illegal substances.

Less accommodation is available today to homeless persons wishing to resettle than 12 months ago. Funding for local authority housing is woefully inadequate to deal with the lengthening waiting lists and virtually no local authority housing is being offered to homeless people.

The explosion of rents in the private sector has put this option out of sight for a homeless person. An effective resettlement programme is an essential part of making progress to eliminate homelessness. Serious pressures are being placed on our inadequate housing resources throughout the country, especially in Dublin, due to the shortage of land and increasing house prices. The current social welfare system forces young people out of home to be eligible for many of the benefits. This further compounds the problem and the demand for local authority housing. A radical overhaul of the system is needed to encourage young people to remain in the family home with full entitlement and all the social benefits instead of forcing some of them on to the streets.

Sadly, living at home is not an option for many young people on the streets. Therefore, I propose that social welfare benefits and rent allowances be made available to young people aged between 16 and 18 years of age linked to participation in an approved educational or training programme. These young people are currently the responsibility of the health boards but the boards are inadequately funded to tackle the problem.

The ideal situation is for young people to remain at home with the support of welfare benefits instead of forcing them out. However, homelessness will have to be tackled by extreme measures and the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs should consider such a proposal which is being tabled on Committee Stage of the Social Welfare Bill. We must urgently develop a strategy to target the needs of the homeless. We must provide adequate resources to voluntary groups working with the homeless and we must declare zero tolerance on homelessness. Let us show that this House is taking action.

Mr. Sheehan

I appreciate the privilege of speaking on this Private Members' motion on homelessness and I regret to have to remind the House that in the past ten years in Ireland poverty has increased, exclusion and unemployment have grown and divisions have deepened. Almost 60 per cent of unemployment is long-term.

Over 30,000 householders are on the waiting list for rehousing. This is an increase of 25 per cent in the past two years. Statistics on the travelling community show that almost 1,500 householders are on the roadside or are in temporary caravan sites. Almost 5,000 people are homeless today. This has happened while the economy has expanded and inflation has been reduced to a very low level. Obviously there is something seriously wrong. The Celtic tiger has seen the national cake expand dramatically during the past decade. However, the market services sector is the only sector where significant growth in employment has occurred.

The groups who benefit least from success include unemployed people, low paid employees and other poor people, especially small farmers. For these groups, the poverty gap has widened and deepened the divisions in society. Deeply divided societies are inherently unstable. It is hardly too much to ask that every person in Ireland has sufficient income to live life with basic dignity, has meaningful work, adequate shelter and is able to participate in society in a real way.

If Ireland is supposed to be doing so well why are there so many problems? Why is the feel good factor missing for so many people? The failure of this Government to tackle poverty, unemployment and exclusion, as experienced by one third of Irish society, is closely aligned to the narrow ways in which Government measures progress. The new programme should set progress indicators by which its success can be measured.

The number of people living in poverty in Ireland has increased dramatically since the mid-1980s. The depth of poverty experienced by people has been reduced somewhat. However, it is clear that more than one million people are living at low income levels and a large number of these are experiencing severe deprivation. The Government should adopt a target of reducing housing waiting lists to a maximum of 18 months, assess the true scale of homelessness and allocate significant resources to providing appropriate accommodation for homeless people. The time has come for the Minister and the Government to face up to their responsibilities. Thousands of people are living in dilapidated houses and flats and travelling people are living in shelters and dilapidated caravans. This is a problem and I urge the Minister to tackle it before it gets out of control.

Ms Fitzgerald

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important issue. There is no doubt that success surrounds us on all sides as we approach the millennium. It would appear that we are running out of superlatives to describe the Ireland of today. The economic indicators are brilliant and we are told they are among the best in the world. The Celtic tiger is a success but not for everyone. That is the issue which I wish to address.

In the past we believed that a rising tide lifted all boats but it is clear that that is not the case. Some people are excluded from this society and those who are most excluded are the homeless. Exclusion is the new disease. Those who are excluded cannot participate in the success and will not gain from the rising tide no matter what they do because there are so many barriers to their participation which they cannot deal with on their own.

It is clear that structured Government initiatives are needed to tackle the problem. It is also clear that we are not doing enough. Statistics show this as do the experiences on our streets. I welcome the initiative announced by the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, yesterday. We need special units for the most disadvantaged children who need security to save themselves. Every other society has had to do this and we need to provide care and protection for the children who are most disadvantaged. We must provide the range of services they need.

Some of the children on our streets need structured help. My colleagues have spoken of the range of housing initiatives which are needed. Deputy Hayes has pinpointed what needs to happen in terms of Government policy on housing and the disgraceful inaction. I wish to speak about the services that some of these children need.

These children have a history of truancy. If we tackled this problem correctly we would not put these children on the high road to delinquency. Our record of helping children who cannot cope with the ordinary school system is a disgrace. Twenty years ago I worked in London and saw a range of services for children who were out of school. I saw intermediate treatment facilities for 13 year old boys who could not cope in their schools. I saw group work with children from the most disadvantaged families which helped to get them back into mainstream education. We need a major initiative in this area. We need a school attendance Act and new resources if we are to prevent children ending up on the streets. It is critical that we go back to the beginnings if we are to tackle the problem of homelessness. This problem is not just about housing, it is about the way we approach children generally.

Today I attended a seminar on women's health. Among the information given was that maternity hospitals can identify post-natal depression three days after the birth of a baby. If we put the services in place to deal with the most vulnerable at the time when they most need help we would prevent many problems. We are particularly bad at putting preventative services into place. We need to develop the range of preventative services to deal with the most vulnerable children and to prevent them getting on the long highway to exclusion, failure in school and, for some, homelessness. The numbers are getting very large. We can see it all around us.

Tonight I saw a young man in his mid-20s with a blanket around him standing at a corner on York Street in my constituency. He was looking for money and was clearly homeless. Other European capitals have had this problem for a long time. The problem in Dublin is in many ways the beginning of a social problem. It existed to a small degree in the past but it is now escalating out of control. Ironically this is happening at a time when the economy is doing well and we have the resources to do something about it. The money is there but the Government lacks the political will to give priority to this major issue.

We need to put the necessary resources in place to ensure the cycle of homelessness is interrupted effectively. Otherwise the problem will become as great as in London and many cities in the United States. We must not lose the opportunity afforded by this motion to tackle the problem. If we do not tackle the social problems and disadvantage in some sections of the community and interrupt the cycle of homelessness the benefits gained from the Celtic tiger will be set at naught.

I urge the Government to prioritise this issue and introduce a major initiative which will ensure the necessary resources are allocated to this area. We have the second highest rate of child poverty in the EU. We think we are a child centred society but there is no evidence to support this from a legislative point of view. For example, we only recently updated the 1903 legislation and two juvenile justice Bills still have to be introduced. I recognise what the previous Government did and what this Government is trying to do, but we are only beginning to allocate the necessary resources to child care. We are coming from an incredibly low base and our administrative structures do not work properly. The relevant Departments are too divided and we are still not clear on who is responsible for the legislation. This was evident from the slowness to give the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, responsibility across three Departments. This is not good enough.

We should hang our heads in shame that 13 year old children have to live on the streets of Dublin. All the hostels in Dublin are full and children and adults who are turned away have to sleep rough. While there is an argument about the figures, they are substantial. The Merchant's Quay project carried out a survey in my constituency a few weeks ago. It found that 40 per cent of those sleeping rough are young women, many of whom are drug addicts. Specific services are obviously needed to deal with this group. The statistics are alarming. According to Focus Point, the figure increased from 352 in 1994 to 599 in 1995 and 824 in 1996. If we are committed to a just society, we must tackle the issue and allocate the necessary funding.

I would have allocated the £20 million given to the GAA in the budget to tackling homelessness in Dublin. I have no objection to the developments being undertaken by the GAA — I congratulate it on its contribution to society — but it is able to raise its own funding. I would have used this money to break the cycle of homelessness before it gets worse. A major once-off injection of funding would break the cycle of rampant deprivation.

I acknowledge the homeless initiative which is under way but it is not enough. We must provide the statutory backup for this initiative. We must also provide further funding and support to enable the many groups working in this area to provide the range of services required by people living in hostels, for example, accommodation, employment and counselling to help them move on. The only way these organisations can give this support is if they receive ongoing funding.

It is distressing to see the number of young people of different ages sleeping on the streets in Dublin. We do not want the success of the Celtic tiger to create a two-tier society with a drift towards a level of social exclusion we have never seen before. While many people were poor in the past, as facilities developed and educational opportunities grew they moved away from poverty. People will not be able to do this at present unless structured initiatives are introduced.

The budget gave priority to the wrong areas. Funding should have been allocated towards breaking the cycle of homelessness. We know the services which are needed and we must reach out to this vulnerable group of people and give them the necessary counselling, halfway houses and secure units they need. We should not be hesitant about allocating the necessary resources to this area. Otherwise the success of the Celtic tiger will be very shallow.

Mr. Enright

I am deeply concerned about the problem of homelessness. If we do not carry out a comprehensive examination of the problems in this area we will face a major crisis in the coming years. I support the points made by many people on this problem. The level of homelessness in Dublin and other cities and towns is a cause of shame and it is incumbent on us to remedy the problem.

Many people live in mobile homes which are illegally parked. These townships, so to speak, can cause problems for the occupants of nearby homes. The Government must re-examine the provision of halting sites.

The cost of halting sites can be between £75,000 and £80,000. The cost of providing homes would be much less than the cost of providing such sites. I question the wisdom of providing halting sites as distinct from homes. Apparently, many feel they have a right to roam and travel with the possibility of moving caravans from place to place, but money would be better spent on providing homes for those living in caravans. This issue deserves more indepth examination than it is receiving.

The Minister would be well advised to examine court lists, particularly those of the Circuit Court which are furnished in each town at the commencement of sittings. His officials should write to the county registrars in each Circuit Court area to receive details of court cases listed in which building societies and some banks are seeking repossession of homes. Alarm bells will start ringing in the Department when he sees the number of orders for repossessions by building societies. There are roughly 40 cases pending for repossession of houses in Offaly at present. It this is extended to the rest of the country the Minister will see there are thousands of homes under threat of repossession by building societies. In the old days repossession was called eviction. Sadly, many repossessions are taking place with many people being evicted from their homes. The Minister should examine the circumstances to see if help can be given to those people being made homeless.

Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children (Dr. Moffatt)

In summing up for the Government, I will comment on issues raised by Deputies who have spoken on this motion. I will also summarise the Government's position on this important issue.

The problem of homelessness is multifaceted. It has many complex origins and rarely arises in isolation. Homelessness may arise as a result of family difficulties, alcohol or drug abuse, mental illness, unemployment or bad luck — this list is not exhaustive. In addition, because of trends in the housing market, people entering the market may find the price of buying their first home prohibitive.

As my colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Fahey, pointed out last night, we are living through a time of unprecedented change in Irish society. Many aspects of this change are beneficial but the benefits have come at a price and people who would have had a role in a more traditional society have been left behind.

Young people are particularly at risk in a situation where society no longer acts to reinforce the family and does not promote social cohesion as was the case. Problems which previously did not arise to anything like their present extent now fall to statutory and voluntary agencies to deal with, and these agencies are responding to the challenge. Young people can encounter particular problems with alcohol and drugs and while health boards and the health promotion unit of my Department are active in developing and delivering innovative programmes to help young people cope with these potential problems, we must recognise that there will be casualties. However, action is being taken in this area and the problem of young homelessness will continue to be addressed.

The necessary legislation, the Child Care Act, 1991, assigns to health boards responsibility for promoting the welfare of children who are not receiving adequate care and protection and obliges health boards to provide childcare and family support services. Boards are also required to make suitable accommodation available for children who are homeless. Health boards must review their services annually and, in a more recent development, must submit service plans to my Department identifying priorities for each year. My Department funds boards on the basis of these plans.

It is important to note that very significant additional funding has been made available to allow the full implementation of the Child Care Act. From 1993 to the end of 1997 an additional £43.5 million on an annualised basis has been allocated to health boards for this purpose and a further £8 million will be made available during 1998. In addition, capital investment of £5 million is provided for in 1998. This represents a very significant commitment by successive Governments to the development of childcare and family support services, including services for the young homeless.

Investment in services for the homeless is directed to the areas of greatest need and is mainly targeted at the Eastern Health Board. There is no doubt that the Eastern Health Board, and the greater Dublin area in particular, has a wider range of problems than any other part of the country. That is not to say that other parts of the country do not have to cope with the problem of homelessness — far from it. It is merely to recognise that large urban areas have more than their share of problems.

My colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Fahey, outlined last night the main developments which have been financed in the Eastern Health Board area. These initiatives are designed to provide a practical response to the problem and also to resource the Eastern Health Board to deal with the problems it faces. The Minister also referred to the need for an integrated range of measures to prevent problems arising in the first place and this is another area in which all health boards have responded so that they can provide the necessary supports for families in difficulty. However, this is clearly an area that would merit greater attention in future.

I now wish to address the broader issue. While Deputy Stagg was kind enough last night to speak approvingly of what was being done in relation to homelessness among young people, he was somewhat critical in regard to adult homelessness. This response was, I think, unmerited. In his contribution earlier in the debate my colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment and Local Government, Deputy Molloy, outlined the situation in relation to homeless people, for whom he has responsibility. He noted that while health boards traditionally had a leading role in providing accommodation for homeless people, responsibility transferred to the local authorities following the enactment of the Housing Act, 1988. However, as health boards had developed a wealth of experience and expertise in assessing and responding to the needs of homeless people, they continue to be involved in this area.

In particular, the arrangements in the Dublin area are a good example of co-operation between local authorities and health boards. The Homeless Persons Unit is operated by the board. It arranges emergency accommodation, as required, for homeless people on behalf of the Dublin local authorities. It also deals with the income support requirements of homeless people. In effect, it operates a one stop shop to meet the emergency accommodation and income support needs of homeless people.

The Dublin Homeless Initiative, involving the Dublin local authorities, the Eastern Health Board and the voluntary sector, is a logical extension of this partnership arrangement. My colleague and other speakers have paid tribute to the work of voluntary bodies in providing accommodation and services for homeless people. I echo this sentiment.

The procedures involved in providing accommodation and services for homeless people lend themselves to the flexible arrangements which voluntary bodies can provide. While we obviously want services to be cost effective, we do not want to lose the flexible response which is a trademark of voluntary bodies. In an increasingly complex society, it seems that more and more people have difficulty in coping. As several speakers said, homelessness is often a complex mix of factors such as family breakdown, alcohol or drug addiction, etc., compounded by factors such as poverty, unemployment and social exclusion. The response to homelessness, therefore, generally requires the provision of accommodation and other services. Unless there is a safety net of supports available when people become homeless, there is a danger that some vulnerable homeless people will slip into the world of crime and drug abuse.

I have referred, as have many other speakers, to the position in Dublin because nearly two-thirds of homeless people are in the Dublin area. While homelessness is largely a problem in the large urban areas it is also a problem, albeit of a different type, in smaller towns and rural areas. Anyone can become homeless for a variety of reasons. It is essential, therefore, that local authorities and health boards ensure that the necessary arrangements are in place to meet emergencies as and when they occur.

The Government's commitment to meeting housing needs is clear from the record levels of funding approved for the local authority and social housing programmes this year. Many homeless families are housed under these programmes but what is clear from this debate is the need for co-ordinated services and co-operation between the statutory and voluntary sectors to help homeless people find a route out of homelessness and back to more normal living.

The powers of local authorities to respond to homelessness are broad. Perhaps the most significant recent development has been the expanded local authority and social housing programme. The Government has made a commitment to maintain this programme. Many homeless families have benefited from this programme and capital funding has been significantly increased. Social housing measures are being developed and they play an important part in meeting housing needs, including those of homeless people.

The voluntary housing capital assistance scheme provides high standard accommodation for homeless people as well as for the elderly and people with disabilities. Since the inception of the scheme some £37 million has been paid in respect of projects for homeless people.

Organisations such as the Simon Community, Focus Ireland, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, Respond and the Salvation Army have availed of the scheme to provide 470 units of accommodation for homeless people. In addition, a separate rental subsidy scheme funded by the Department of the Environment and Local Government has also been availed of by the voluntary sector.

There have been significant improvements in the range of voluntary housing measures to make them as attractive as possible to voluntary bodies providing accommodation for homeless people and other groups. More direct assistance is also required and the Department of the Environment and Local Government has made this available to homeless people and the bodies working on their behalf. Annual grants are made available to a number of voluntary bodies. Local authorities have extensive powers and these powers are being used. Funding is being provided and it is intended to continue with this policy.

The Government has accorded a high priority to this issue and we stand over our record.

Mr. Hayes

With agreement of the House, I wish to share the remaining 15 minutes of our time with Deputies Neville and Stanton.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Do the Deputies want five minutes each?

Mr. Hayes

Yes.

Mr. Neville

I welcome the opportunity to raise the issue of homeless children. As my party's spokesman on children, I wish to dwell exclusively on this issue. It is sad at a time when most people enjoy high standards of living that children are homeless on the streets of Dublin and other urban areas. Homelessness represents the most extreme form of social exclusion and should not be a feature of society. A mere 44 hostel places are provided for children in the Eastern Health Board area but that is totally insufficient. There are only six or eight emergency beds available each night but there is a requirement for at least three times that number to ensure that no child must resort to sleeping in squats or on the streets. Hostel accommodation should only be a short-term measure until such time as services are in place to provide proper day care services for children supported by a 24 hour social work service with access to emergency fostering care, supported lodgings or home-family support services.

Placing children in hostels or in bed and breakfast accommodation is not an acceptable alternative to providing hospital resources and professional skills and places unnecessary demands on resources. Bed and breakfast establishments are excellent as private enterprises but the necessary professional skills are not available in these to deal with homeless children and their families.

I pay particular tribute to Focus Ireland for the work it has done in this area and from which I have drawn most of my information. Focus Ireland has drawn up a plan in which emergency needs and immediate requirements are outlined. Additional emergency accommodation must be provided as a matter of urgency. Day services for homeless children should include basic facilities such as food, water, informal education and links with other services on a 24 hour basis. Provision must be made for a seven day street work service.

Focus Ireland has also outlined the need for settlement facilities and an increase of 60 places in foster care lodgings. There is a need for 30 more supported lodgings, a home support service and care workers to support children in their own homes. There is need also for a community service as well as independent living training in supported lodgings.

The problem of homelessness must be tackled on a long-term basis. We must examine our education facilities to understand the reason children become homeless at such a young age. Nine, ten and 11 year olds are dropping out of the system so there is a need for better home-school liaison services and better support for neighbourhood youth projects.

Services must be planned by the health board and must draw on the experience of the voluntary sector. There is a need for an integrated service delivery system inclusive of the experience and capacity of the voluntary service. There should be a clear and cohesive strategy to ensure the needs of children, who are or are likely to be homeless, and their families are properly addressed.

On 11 December last, the Minister for Social, Community and Family Affairs mentioned figures with regard to referrals from January to July of last year. He outlined that a total of 1,945 referrals were received and approximately 50 per cent of those were young people who were known to the Eastern Health Board. A difficulty experienced by the out of hours service is that many young people who cannot be placed by community care teams during the day because of a shortage of places present themselves to the out of hours service at night.

Has progress been made on the proposal that additional social workers will be available to the out of hours service? What is the status of the plans to set up a day and night reception centre in Dublin city to facilitate homeless people in accessing health board services?

Mr. Stanton

The Minister acknowledged that trends in the housing market in particular cause problems of homelessness, but Government policy is causing the problems. There are many homeless people and as a result of the budget the problem will be greater in future because many young couples cannot purchase homes. The problem is evident throughout the country. The Government is putting homes out of the reach of many people.

Deputy Fitzgerald said that problems can be identified at an early stage. At a seminar today it was outlined that very often problems start when children are born, and they continue from generation to generation. Primary school teachers can identify in junior infants future dropouts and homeless people. I call for an immediate extension of the home-school community liaison service. There are too many reports and we are aware of what must be done. A greater number of remedial teachers are needed in schools to identify problems at an early stage. The pre-school service must be funded and properly set up. Counselling services are needed in all schools. It is unacceptable that schools with fewer than 500 pupils may not have the facility of a guidance counsellor. Primary schools also need guidance counselling. We must immediately beef up the psychological service in the Department of Education and Science. The Minister is aware of what must be done, and if those initiatives are taken now it would help enormously.

There are people leaving school today who cannot read, and for that reason teachers are under tremendous stress. The problem is not an urban one, it is also a rural problem but, as the Minister acknowledged, in rural areas it is not as concentrated. The Minister said that there is a danger homeless people will become involved in crime and drugs, but it is more than a danger, it is almost a certainty. I hope this debate will jolt the Government into action.

Homelessness is evident throughout the country. For example, in Cobh there are 300 families on the waiting list, but this year the Government allocated only 15 houses. Is the Government serious about this problem? I call on the Government to take this motion seriously and tackle the problem head on. It should not rely on the voluntary service to do all the work.

Mr. Hayes

I thank Members on all sides who contributed to this debate which was very useful in highlighting a huge and growing social problem. Points were made by Deputy Stagg about the issue of travellers, by Deputy Fitzgerald about school attendance and by others about the treatment of children. One third of children live in poverty and that is a national disgrace in the context of a booming economy.

I am not happy the two Ministers charged with responsibility in this area are not in the House to hear my closing remarks. I very much regret that the points I made at the start of this debate have not been responded to. In particular the question of when the Government will publish the national strategy on homelessness, which is part of the programme for Government, was not answered. The Government has been in office for nine months and that strategy, which is a key aspect of housing in the programme for Government, has not been produced.

I also very much regret the Minister, Deputy Molloy, did not respond to my statement that he, as Minister with responsibility for housing, is not a member of the Cabinet Sub-committee on Social Exclusion. A very important Cabinet sub-committee is charged with responsibility for drawing up policy on social exclusion and the Minister, who has direct responsibility for that area, is not a member of the committee. That is a disgrace which I highlighted to the Minister and the Taoiseach some months ago and which has yet to be resolved.

It is clear from comments on all sides that there is a complete lack of co-ordination in terms of homelessness, as evidenced by the fact that there are two Ministers dealing with the problem. The question of lack of information was not responded to in the debate. We are working on housing statistics which were compiled two years ago. It is clear from Simon and Focus Ireland that the figures on homelessness are out of date and bear no relevance to the position in 1998. We must decide once and for all to make resources available to the Department of the Environment and Local Government or the Department of Health and Children to find out the exact scale of this problem. We will not be able to develop policies and strategies unless we know the facts.

The Minister, Deputy Fahey, announced, for the seventh occasion since January, his timely ideas about emergency care, and this side of the House welcomes that, but there was nothing new in his contribution last night. It was a rehash of an announcement made in January of this year.

I wish to refer to the statement by the Minister, Deputy Molloy, about refugees. We need to get the language on this issue right, and it was not helped by the comments of the Minister last night. He said:

There is significant pressure on emergency bed and breakfast accommodation and, indeed, on the lower end of the private rented accommodation sector, by the large number of asylum seekers in the Dublin area. These are classified as homeless and are placed in emergency accommodation until they move into rented accommodation.

This development has seriously eroded the otherwise adequate supply of emergency accommodation available for homeless people and has made difficult the move by homeless persons from emergency and hostel accommodation into suitable alternative accommodation.

I wish the Minister was in the House tonight to remove that slur from the record. It is inflammatory, dangerous and irresponsible language of which, if picked up by agencies outside the House, we will all be ashamed.

The homeless problem in Dublin has not been fuelled as a result of the number of asylum seekers. It is wrong for the Minister and the Government to blame refugees for this problem. I regret that the Minister has not taken the opportunity to remove that slur from the record of the House. As I moved the substantive motion yesterday and as it was duly seconded it still stands and I put it to the House.

An Ceann Comhairle

As it is now 8.30 p.m. I must put the question on amendment No. 1.

Mr. Hayes

On a point of order, at no stage in the course of the debate last night or tonight was amendment No. 1 moved.

Mr. Molloy

I moved it last night.

Mr. Hayes

I checked the unedited report of last night's debate and there was no indication that the amendment was moved. I would like clarification on this point. While the amendment is on the Order Paper I did not hear it moved.

An Ceann Comhairle

I understand it was moved. The Minster of State says it was moved.

Amendment put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 66; Níl 49.

Tá

• Ahern, Dermot.
• Ahern, Michael.
• Ahern, Noel.
• Ardagh, Seán.
• Aylward, Liam.
• Blaney, Harry.
• Brady, Johnny.
• Brady, Martin.
• Brennan, Matt.
• Brennan, Séamus.
• Briscoe, Ben.
• Browne, John (Wexford).
• Byrne, Hugh.
• Callely, Ivor.
• Carey, Pat.
• Collins, Michael.
• Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.
• Coughlan, Mary.
• Cowen, Brian.
• Cullen, Martin.
• Daly, Brendan.
• Davern, Noel.
• Dennehy, John.
• Doherty, Seán.
• Fahey, Frank.
• Fleming, Seán.
• Flood, Chris.
• Fox, Mildred.
• Hanafin, Mary.
• Harney, Mary.
• Haughey, Seán.
• Jacob, Joe.
• Keaveney, Cecilia.
• Kelleher, Billy.
• Kenneally, Brendan.
• Killeen, Tony.
• Kirk, Séamus.
• Kitt, Michael.
• Kitt, Tom.
• Lawlor, Liam.
• Lenihan, Brian.
• Lenihan, Conor.
• Martin, Micheál.
• McCreevy, Charlie.
• McDaid, James.
• McGennis, Marian.
• McGuinness, John.
• Moffatt, Thomas.
• Molloy, Robert.
• Moynihan, Donal.
• O'Donnell, Liz.
• O'Donoghue, John.
• O'Flynn, Noel.
• O'Hanlon, Rory.
• O'Keeffe, Batt.
• O'Keeffe, Ned.
• O'Kennedy, Michael.
• Power, Seán.
• Roche, Dick.
• Ryan, Eoin.
• Smith, Brendan.
• Smith, Michael.
• Treacy, Noel.
• Wallace, Dan.
• Wallace, Mary.
• Woods, Michael.

Níl

• Barrett, Seán.
• Belton, Louis.
• Bradford, Paul. Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
• Connaughton, Paul.
• Cosgrave, Michael.
• Coveney, Hugh.
• Crawford, Seymour.
• Creed, Michael.
• Currie, Austin.
• D'Arcy, Michael.
• De Rossa, Proinsias.
• Deasy, Austin.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• Durkan, Bernard.
• Enright, Thomas.
• Farrelly, John.
• Fitzgerald, Frances.
• Gormley, John.
• Gregory, Tony.
• Hayes, Brian.
• Higgins, Jim.
• Hogan, Philip.
• Kenny, Enda.
• Burke, Liam.
• Burke, Ulick.
• Carey, Donal. Clune, Deirdre.
• McCormack, Pádraic.
• McGahon, Brendan.
• McGinley, Dinny.
• McGrath, Paul.
• McManus, Liz.
• Mitchell, Gay.
• Mitchell, Jim.
• Mitchell, Olivia.
• Naughten, Denis.
• Neville, Dan.
• O'Keeffe, Jim.
• Penrose, William.
• Quinn, Ruairi
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Reynolds, Gerard.
• Shatter, Alan.
• Sheehan, Patrick.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Stanton, David.
• Timmins, Billy.
• Upton, Pat.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies S. Brennan and Power; Níl, Deputies Barrett and Sheehan.

Amendment declared carried.

Motion, as amended, put and declared carried.