John Bruton
Question:1 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent visit to Spain. [12020/98]
Ceisteanna—Questions. - Official Engagements.
Ruairí Quinn
Question:2 Mr. Quinn asked the Taoiseach if he will report on his visit to Spain; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12304/98]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.
I had a three hour meeting with Prime Minister Aznar of Spain in Madrid on Monday, 25 May, last. We discussed a broad range of European issues, including preparations for the forthcoming Cardiff Summit, the ongoing Agenda 2000 negotiations and bilateral relations between Ireland and Spain. I took the opportunity to brief the Prime Minister on the Northern Ireland peace process and the passing of the two referenda.
Is the bilateral arrangement between Ireland and Spain for liaison in regard to fishing, which I established with Prime Minister Gonzalez, working satisfactorily?
The Deputy will be pleased to know it is a highly effective mechanism for bilateral contacts to resolve difficulties that may arise in that area and it is working extremely well.
Did the Taoiseach outline to Prime Minister Aznar the details of the agreement concluded between Dublin, London and the parties in Northern Ireland and, if so, did he say if such a modality could be applied to the problems in the Basque region of Spain?
I outlined the framework of the Agreement to him in detail. The entire press conference, which was attended by large numbers, related to the problems in the Basque region and how they might relate to Northern Ireland. I made is abundantly clear — I believe the Prime Minister agrees — that parallels cannot be drawn between the two conflicts. I stated many times at the press conference that, like all other conflicts, Northern Ireland is unique and it is wrong to draw parallels. More importantly, because the drift of the debate was that the Prime Minister should take an initiative in this regard, I made it abundantly clear that could not happen until all forms of violence ceased.
While the parallels between South Africa and Northern Ireland were not the same, South Africa was able to provide inspiration and courage to participants in Northern Ireland to go the extra mile. Since Spain is an old friend of ours and many of us can empathise with the sentiments of some of the Basques, is this not an opportune time to consolidate our friendship and, with the assent of the people in the Basque region and Madrid, provide an opportunity for the people involved in the talks process in Northern Ireland to simply describe their experiences to the antagonists in the conflict in Spain? As in the case of South Africa, it might be possible to reach a compromise similar to that which underpinned the success of the Good Friday Agreement?
One has to be careful on this matter. Prime Minister Aznar has been dealing with a very difficult matter for a long time. I am sure those involved could draw consolation from the agreements reached in South Africa and Ireland if there were no violence, but I do not want to even suggest that as long as the violence continues.
Did the Taoiseach discuss with the Spanish Prime Minister the question of Irish citizens living in Spain and evading justice here? Was that bilateral issue on the agenda? Did they discuss the ratification of the Amsterdam Treaty and the prospects for its ratification in all 15 member states?
We discussed the question of ratification of the treaty and the referendum here. Spain will go through a different process to ratify it in October. We both expressed the hope that it would be ratified by all countries by the end of the year.
We also discussed the question of Irish citizens living in Spain who are evading justice here. Earlier that day I visited Ireland House where, as the Deputy is probably aware, a member of the Garda Síochána is based. He is involved in security arrangements and developments to foster a better bilateral relationship between the two countries. A number of people are evading the authorities and, while I have not discussed the matter with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the authorities in Spain and the member of the Garda Síochána stationed there, believe this arrangement is working well. From here on in, having developed the contacts and with the mechanism in place, with total co-operation from the Spanish police, we will see ongoing success. Much contact has been built up in recent months on a few high profile cases.
Will the Taoiseach agree the contents of the Amsterdam Treaty relating to Europol will assist in bringing back criminals from Spain whose extradition is being sought by the Garda Síochána?
Exactly. It is intended that the bilateral relationships in the agreement will work. The Garda Síochána feels it will be successful in that. It may not happen very quickly but over time it certainly will.
In the course of their discussions, did the Spanish Prime Minister, Mr. Aznar, raise with the Taoiseach concerns that some Spaniards have about the treatment of Spanish citizens living in some of our southern fishing ports and the harassment they may have received from local people because of their involvement in the fishing industry here, albeit that they are living in Ireland?
No. That was not raised at all.
No?
The Spanish are very happy, and so are we, that there are now highly effective mechanisms for bilateral contacts. The system is operating well but no concern was expressed in any of the discussions about individual cases.
I wonder about the Taoiseach's enthusiasm for this committee because there is tangible evidence of many problems with regard to the 150 Spanish flagships which are registered in the UK. Is the Taoiseach aware that in recent times the biggest fines in history, totalling £1 million, were imposed on 12 trawlers as a result of personnel from Irish naval vessels having boarded them. The fines were imposed at Milford Haven. Surely the Taoiseach is aware that his party is committed to seek a ban on such flagships. This is one of the issues he should be raising with that committee.
What committee?
The committee the Taoiseach spoke about in relation to fisheries.
That is a matter for the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources. I was asked a question about the system that is operating and I have answered it. The system that has been put in place is——
The system is not operating efficiently.
That is not the view of either the Spanish or Irish Governments.
The first priority question tabled for the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources relates to this matter.
The reason the system was put in place by the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bruton, was because these matters were always arising. However, the mechanism in place deals with these effectively and to the satisfaction of both Governments. Cases are arising all the time but I had no reason to raise them. I thought the Spanish might raise some of these issues but they are very happy with the scheme. The ongoing workings of the scheme are being dealt with by the Minister. It is working satisfactorily for both Governments.
Do I take it the Taoiseach missed a golden opportunity of discussing with his Spanish counterpart a very serious situation that appertains as regards the continued harassment of our fishing fleet?
I do not know if Deputies were listening to the earlier questions. They come in half way through and then try to pick it up.
The Deputy was here.
He is the man who saved Charles Haughey, do not forget. Have respect for him.
An effective system of bilateral contacts was put in place to resolve difficulties which arise in this area. People are using that process and it is working extremely effectively. The Minister is dealing with a number of high and low profile cases. This is not an issue that had to be on the agenda between myself and the Prime Minister Mr. Aznar.
Does the Taoiseach recall the commitment his party gave at the last general election to ban flagships? As a result of that commitment, I would remind the Taoiseach that documentation was issued by the fishermen's organisation asking their members to support Fianna Fáil. Having visited the Spanish Prime Minister, surely the first thing he should have done was to follow up on the commitment he gave during the last general election. One of the Taoiseach's Ministers of State, Deputy Byrne, led the charge to ban flagships. I am sure he will remind the Taoiseach of that commitment.
In 1995.
The Taoiseach is on the hook now.
I find it extraordinary that on his visit to Spain the Taoiseach did not avail of the opportunity to inquire about the progress on banning flagships.
An entirely different kettle of fish.
It is all very well to talk about a high level commission but we are talking about a commitment the Taoiseach gave on behalf of his party to actively work to ban flagships. Did he raise that issue with the Spanish Prime Minister or not?
Unfortunately, there is confusion, as usual, among the Opposition.
There is no confusion. The Taoiseach is the one who is confused.
The Taoiseach is flying a flag of convenience.
I was asked a relevant question about the high level system that was put in place. I do not have to raise issues relating to flagships because I have a very competent Minister——
Who has waffled on this issue.
——and a Minister of State who can well handle that issue. They have been dealing with it and, I hope they will be successful in concluding it.
I will allow a final supplementary question on this matter. There is a Priority Question dealing with the same matter.
Does the Taoiseach share the Spanish view in regard to enlargement and the effect it could have on Structural Funds? Was any joint approach to Agenda 2000 agreed between Ireland and Spain at his meeting? What impact will that have on the availability of Structural Funds both for Ireland and Spain? What impact could it have also on support for agricultural products which are important both to Ireland and Spain?
A large part of our discussion was on Agenda 2000, co-operating on the tactics that both of us will adopt over the next six to nine months. We have a common position with Spain perhaps more so than with any other country, apart from Portugal. The Spanish Prime Minister, Mr. Aznar, the Portuguese Prime Minister, Mr. Guterres, and I are trying to negotiate a common position as best we can. In particular, we went through the detail of our problems vis-à-vis the Common Agricultural Policy and our concerns arising from EU Agriculture Commissioner Fischler's report of 18 March. We managed to develop close to a 100 per cent common position. We also went through the concerns on enlargement and what will happen up to 2006 and afterwards.
We have developed our case to seek a transitional period for Objective One status when it concludes. It is slightly different to the Spanish negotiating stance but they support our stance and we can support theirs also.