Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 May 1998

Vol. 491 No. 4

Priority Questions. - Illegal Fishing.

Michael Finucane

Question:

8 Mr. Finucane asked the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources if, following the statements provided by the Irish Naval Service which led to severe fines being imposed on Spanish flagships registered in the United Kingdom as a result of severe over-fishing within the Irish fishery limit, this is only a part of the over-fishing by the Spanish in Irish waters; if it warrants the intervention of the European Union Commissioner to insist on a satisfactory explanation from the Spanish fisheries Minister; if, failing a satisfactory response in this regard, he will seek appropriate sanctions against Spanish fishermen; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12508/98]

Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources (Dr. Woods)

I wholeheartedly welcome the recent UK court decisions which imposed severe fines for fishing offences by flagships in Irish and UK waters. The outcome is a clear demonstration of the practical benefits of co-operation on fisheries enforcement between member states and I commend the Department's sea fisheries inspectorate and the Naval Service for their important contribution in getting this result. The clear message emanating from these court proceedings, and the co-operative approach which underpinned the outcome, is that illegal fishing will not be tolerated. The Irish and UK Governments are at one on this.

Our own fisheries protection services at sea and on land are co-operating closely to ensure that fisheries protection in the Irish zone operates with maximum effectiveness to reduce and eliminate illegal fishing.

I have been pressing hard to get better co-operation from other member states on fisheries enforcement and to ensure a level playing field for all EU fishermen. I have raised the particular enforcement difficulties associated with flagships with my UK and Spanish colleagues at every opportunity and I will continue to pursue the matter actively with the Commission and bilaterally. I will raise the outcome of the recent UK court cases directly with my UK and Spanish counterparts as well as with Commissioner Bonino. I will underline strongly to them that, from each of their perspectives, there is an imperative to deliver continued co-operation to ensure rigorous inspection and control of flagships at sea and on land. This is essential in order to back up Ireland's endeavours as the coastal state most directly affected.

Mr. Finucane

I thank the Minister for his reply but is this not the tip of the iceberg? We are talking about £1 million in fines and 13 vessels boarded by the Irish Naval Service, which is to be congratulated, but the court in Haverfordwest described these cases as the worst example of over-fishing ever to have been detected. We are talking about in excess of 150 flagships. These were random boardings which led to subsequent fines of £1 million on vessels registered in the UK, operating in Irish waters and sailing back to La Corun a in Spain. The Taoiseach indicated earlier that the special liaison committee on the fisheries issue put in place by the former Taoiseach, Deputy John Bruton, is working effectively. What discussions have taken place to date between the Minister and the Spanish Government with regard to seeking to ban flagships? That promise was made to fishermen prior to the last general election. It was advertised in a particular paper by a fisheries group indicating that people should support Fianna Fáil on the basis of such promises. Does the Minister seriously intend to seek the banning of flagships? I would like him to come clean on this particular issue because it is pertinent in regard to over-fishing in Irish waters and makes a mockery of the European common fisheries policy.

Dr. Woods

As I said in my reply, I pressed this matter both at the Council and individually with the Ministers concerned. The co-operation which led to these charges has been successful and we plan to continue that. There are certain weaknesses in the system. We now have tight inspection procedures at Irish ports, as well as at sea. That is also the case to a large extent in the UK. Nevertheless, when these ships return to Spain it is clear there is difficulty in providing the level of inspection we provide here. That is a serious matter from our point of view. Irish ships also land in Spain with whitefish. From 1 July we will have the opportunity to carry out real time checks on quantities on board vessels. That is a major step forward and one to which I encouraged the Council of Ministers to agree. It is a major improvement because we will be in a position to check the quantities on entering and leaving a particular area. That will strengthen our hand in exercising control. I agree with the Deputy that there must be better controls and we need co-operation from Ministers in other countries.

I am concerned about the quantities involved in some of these cases. It would be wrong to think that all the penalties relate to that size of additional catch — the records show that many vessels have smaller additional quantities on board — or that they were imposed for some other irregularity. I am including in that Irish vessels caught for such irregularities. Notwithstanding that, the courts applied the penalties which, as the Deputy stated, were substantial — £1 million in total. Nevertheless, we are coming to the time when we will want to give consideration to the revoking of licences which is an administrative, rather than a court, action. They are two separate issues. One is the imposition of penalties, which can be substantial as it can involve the impounding of gear, by the courts. The other is on the administrative side. In some of these extreme cases, it is time to give a clear warning that such excesses will not be tolerated. In a meeting with Minister Cunningham in Britain shortly, I plan to state clearly that it is time warning was given that licences will be revoked if this kind of excess occurs again.

Mr. Finucane

I remind the Minister of the quantities involved. We are talking about 12 vessels, repeated offences and the random boarding of these vessels. It is worth bearing in mind that they exceeded the monkfish quota by 250,000 kilograms. There were 361,000 kilograms of illegal hake and illegal anglerfish. That is a random example. Surely if there are 150 flagships involved, those quantities of fish caught are only the tip of the iceberg?

In a parliamentary question on 31 March, Deputy McManus asked about the Government's commitment vis-à-vis the banning of flagships. The Minister did not respond to that specific issue again today. If it is no longer a foreseeable objective, at least the Minister should be honest and say so rather than have us table that question again in three months. While I admit the Minister is going in the right direction when he speaks of revoking licences, desperate diseases need desperate remedies. Our fisheries are being ravaged by the Spaniards. What will be left to Irish fishermen in future will be minimal.

Dr. Woods

Effectively, the revocation of the licence would ban such a flagship if that was the case. I would generally accept that it is not a fair and even playing pitch and that excessive quantities are taken by a proportion of the boats. However, the prosecutions and investigations which are carried out — a large number of vessels are boarded by the Naval Service — would not bear that out. I am not disagreeing with the Deputy that there are vessels fishing to excess, but the numbers of such vessels which are boarded and caught is not high. A proportion of the vessels are engaging in this activity. The vessels which are boarded are of Irish as well as of Spanish and other origin. Quite a large number of Irish vessels are boarded and they receive penalties also.

The major problem is the one of huge excesses which the Deputy cited. That is bringing us to the point where we must look at the administrative arrangements for the revocation of licences which will effectively ban the vessels which are causing major problems. That is of most interest to people and it is the policy I will be pursuing.