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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 3 Jun 1998

Vol. 491 No. 6

Priority Questions. - TEAM Aer Lingus.

Ivan Yates

Question:

17 Mr. Yates asked the Minister for Public Enterprise the position regarding the proposed sale of TEAM Aer Lingus to FLS Aviation; the proposals, if any, she has received from the board; when it is anticipated that the process within Aer Lingus will be completed and a Government decision required; the vote outcome she would regard as a mandate to proceed with the proposed deal in view of her stated position of worker acceptance being a precondition of this; and the variations, if any, there are of the deal being considered, including a joint venture as opposed to a total sale. [13062/98]

Emmet Stagg

Question:

18 Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Public Enterprise if she will instruct Aer Lingus to enter into negotiations with the workers in TEAM Aer Lingus with a view to setting up an employee share ownership plan; if she will instruct Aer Lingus to set up a working party along with the workers with a view to finding a suitable strategic alliance partner for TEAM; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [13066/98]

I propose to take Questions Nos. 17 and 18 together.

On a point of order, as two questions are being taken together, I presume the time available is doubled.

I have explained the position.

As I indicated in response to private notice questions on 26 May 1998, I had stressed that day to the executive chairman and senior management of Aer Lingus and TEAM the importance of assessing the implications of the previous evening's response of the TEAM workforce to the FLS proposals. I had asked the executive chairman to submit to me at an early date his assessment of the future direction of TEAM in light of the current circumstances. I said I would be conveying essentially the same message to the TEAM unions when I met them.

I met on Friday last, 29 May 1998, with a large representative grouping of the TEAM unions — 24 in all. I listened carefully to their views and conveyed my own views to them. For their part, a range of views were expressed. Some indicated that they regarded the consultation process which had led to last week's outcome as being finalised and that they did not require any further clarification on issues which had arisen in that process. Others, however, felt that important issues such as pension arrangements had not been sufficiently clarified. A common position that was expressed on behalf of the unions was that they were willing to engage on a partnership basis with Aer Lingus management and the Government to find a solution for TEAM that would secure its future.

For my part, I reiterated that my overriding concern at all times has been to secure the maximum level of employment in TEAM into the future and that any strategic developments in relation to the ownership of TEAM would only take place with the concurrence of the TEAM workforce. I also expressed the personal views which I had expressed in this House last week that, first, the letters issued in 1990 to each Aer Lingus staff member transferring to TEAM were letters of guarantee of employment in Aer Lingus but that the concept of a job for life was no longer valid in today's commercial world; second, that TEAM as a subsidiary of Aer Lingus did not have a viable future; and, third, that the best prospects for a secure viable future for TEAM lay with the proposals for the acquisition of the company by FLS Aerospace.

I urged the unions to enter into further talks with the management of Aer Lingus as soon as possible, in which all the concerns and viewpoints of both sides would be thoroughly addressed. I met yesterday with the executive chairman of Aer Lingus who informed me that talks are scheduled for 3 p.m. today.

It follows from the foregoing that I have not yet received any proposals from the board of Aer Lingus. I cannot predict when the process will be completed and a Government decision required. This issue should be addressed with urgency. The union representatives, almost to a person, said the use of the word "crisis" was inimical to the prospects of a deal. I have not attempted to put precise statistical parameters on what might represent workforce concurrence to any deal, as to do so would be unhelpful.

As to the question of alternatives to the proposed FLS deal, on Friday last, 29 May 1998, subsequent to the meeting I had with the TEAM unions, my Department was contacted by Mr. Ulick McEvaddy who indicated that his company may be interested in TEAM Aer Lingus. He said he would give further consideration to this idea and would contact the Department again on the matter this week. I informed the chairman of this yesterday. It remains to be seen whether and how Mr. McEvaddy follows up on this approach.

Has the Minister, as shareholder, had discussions with FLS? In discussions with the Minister, the Department or management in TEAM Aer Lingus or Aer Lingus has FLS indicated a timescale within which it might withdraw if the matter is not agreed? What is the Minister's game plan? Will there be a further ballot or is it the case, if FLS goes off into the ether, that that will be okay too? Does the Minister have a clear view of where she wants to get to and when?

I have not had discussions with FLS but plan to do so. On the question of a ballot, the chairman informed me that he would be in contact with me following his talks with the unions today. I indicated that TEAM, as a subsidiary of Aer Lingus, does not have a viable future and that the best prospects for a secure viable future for TEAM lay with the proposals for the acquisition of the company by FLS Aerospace.

What is the Minister's game plan?

On the timespan involved, as I have not met representatives of FLS yet, I have not got a timespan from them, but I understand from management the suggested timespan will be four to six weeks.

I welcome the Minister's new hands on approach.

The Deputy will give out about that later.

It is belated but welcome. Is the Minister aware of a letter from Mr. John O'Neill, the general manager of Aer Lingus, of 10 April 1990 sent to all the staff?

I read it last week.

In contradiction of what the Minister said recently, he gave a solid undertaking in that letter. He stated that in the unlikely event of TEAM getting into business difficulties, the existing employees of TEAM would be retained to maintain, at a minimum, the Aer Lingus fleet in TEAM. Would the Minister agree the current bill for the maintenance of the Aer Lingus fleet is £28 million? Aer Lingus expects that to escalate to £65 million when it completes the purchase of its fleet. That would represent 75 per cent of the capacity of TEAM. Will the Minister agree that if Aer Lingus did not have a maintenance section it would be well advised to develop one, but given that it has one and the maintenance of its fleet will take up 75 per cent of the capacity of TEAM Aer Lingus, its subsidiary, it would be madness for Aer Lingus to get rid of that subsidiary because it would have to buy that service elsewhere at a higher price?

I read the letter from John O'Neill into the record in replying to a private notice question last week. It was addressed personally to all the workers who, on the fourth ballot, decided to transfer from Aer Lingus to TEAM.

There was no mention of redundancies in it.

I want to be clear about this. I read that letter into the record last week.

The letter of 10 April 1990.

I read it last week.

I do not believe the Minister read that one.

I did. It was dated 10 April and it is in the Official Report. I read it line by line. On foot of it I said it was my personal opinion — not my legal opinion because I do not have a legal background and a legal opinion has not been obtained on this through the court procedures — that was a guarantee of re-employment or of a transfer back to Aer Lingus.

It stated they would be retained in TEAM.

I told the employees I met on Friday that was my personal opinion. I thought that should have been cleared up before now. On the question of personal guarantees for life employment, I cannot guarantee that because if things go badly for TEAM, which I hope will not happen, and staff have the option to transfer back, I do not believe there would be employment for that number of people in Aer Lingus. That relates to the point I discussed last week. Aer Lingus had to succumb to various plans because of the difficulties it faced in the past. Under those plans a series of voluntary redundancies were put into operation and most of the Members present were in Dáil Éireann at that time. We know the anguish and the great anxiety caused by that process. If the Deputy is proposing that all staff should be able to transfer back to Aer Lingus and be employed as crafts persons, I cannot project what the future would be in that regard. I cannot see how there would be employment for that number of crafts persons in Aer Lingus. If there were not jobs suitable to the talents of that number of people, one would have to reach a certain conclusion.

I did not say anything about that.

The Deputy said the current cost of maintaining the Aer Lingus fleet is £28 million and when its new fleet comes on stream that cost will increase to £65 million. I do not have those figures.

Aer Lingus gave those figures to the unions.

The unions put that point to me and I put it to the chairman yesterday. That gives rise to the obvious point that a new fleet of aircraft would not require the heavy maintenance costs an older fleet would require.

According to Aer Lingus it will require £65 million to cover the cost of maintaining its fleet.

The new fleet will require regular but not heavy maintenance.

A Cheann Comhairle——

This is a priority question. I now call Deputy Yates.

Does this experiment not include those of us who have been excluded in the past?

One Sunday newspaper reported the Minister only responded when there was a crisis. What is her game plan? She said she favoured the FLS deal and implied it is the only show in town. As shareholder, how does she intend to ensure over the next four or five weeks that there will be a concurrence of the workers in view of the serious consequences of this deal not coming together and there not being another partner for TEAM? Will the Minister tell the House how she intends to go about doing her business?

Another request has come into the Department. There was a telephone call and a subsequent follow-up discussion is to be had with Mr. McEvaddy.

I now call Question No. 19.

Will the Chair allow me to ask another supplementary question?

The time allocated for this question is exhausted.

I thought I was entitled to ask another question.

Under the new rules 12 minutes are allocated for these questions.

That procedure will not last long.

That will be up to the House.

We must be playing by Australian rules.

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