Vol. 493 No. 3
5 Mr. M. Higgins asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if she will consider the extension of community employment from three to five years where training courses for some individuals require a period greater than three years and where the net benefit to the trainee and local community is very positive. [15920/98]
71 Ms Shortall asked the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment her views on the loss of long-term payments for those who have completed community employment acting as a disincentive to people taking up places on this scheme; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [15931/98]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 and 71 together.
Community employment is designed primarily to provide temporary work experience opportunities for long-term unemployed people which would convince potential employers of their suitability to fill vacancies. It is not the intention that the programme be used as a delivery vehicle for long-term training.
The structure of the CE programme was revised in 1996 following an in-depth examination by the Task Force on Long-Term Unemployment. The task force concluded that the focus of the programme should be to prepare participants to progress into mainstream jobs and that work placements should be for a maximum of one year on the CE integration option and a maximum of three years on the part-time job option.
A review of CE by Deloitte & Touche is nearing completion and I expect to be in possession of it shortly. The report will be comprehensive and will be expected to comment on whether CE, as it is presently designed, is an appropriate intervention in current labour market conditions.
It is my intention to present the report to Government, to have it laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas, and to publish it and make it available to as wide an audience as possible.
CE participants are eligible to retain any secondary social benefits they had prior to participating in the programme. It is the Governments intention that the tax and welfare system should act as an incentive, rather than as a disincentive, to those out of work to enter training or take up employment.
The Minister described the theory behind CE and previous schemes, which operated since the mid 1980s when there were only a few thousand schemes. The CE scheme has been developed to the point where there are about 41,000 schemes at present. The Minister is probably aware, that in many local schemes in the Dublin city and county areas there are participants who, as part of the training which FÁS and the local community sponsors have organised, are undergoing long-term training which might take up to four years, some of which involves third level education. I am thinking of one group in the south inner city training to be full-time counsellors and working hard in the anti-drugs movement. It needs at least one extra year. While I accept the Minister's point in relation to the review of the scheme by Deloitte & Touche, training courses have been organised which run longer than three years which may prove valuable for the individual concerned and the wider community. I understand the Minister may have attended the meeting of Employment and Social Affairs Ministers in Luxembourg recently. Our Swedish and German colleagues have community employment systems in place——
The Deputy appears to be making a statement. He should, please, ask a supplementary question.
The system in Germany has been in place since 1947 and has had a fundamental impact in terms of the training of individuals and the building of communities. The time has come to make some fundamental changes to enhance the scheme in place here.
Community employment is not intended to be seen as a long-term training route but it is hard to have rigid rules which apply in all cases. The points made by the Deputy are valid. When the Deloitte & Touche report is published in the next two weeks or so — perhaps we will have an opportunity to discuss it at one of the committees of the House — we may have an opportunity to change some of the scheme's provisions. We are all seeking to achieve the same objectives. I am acutely conscious that in some communities in inner city and suburban Dublin, inner city Cork, Limerick and Galway as well as in rural areas where it may be difficult to attract sufficient participants to put a scheme in place, hard and fast rules do not always operate satisfactorily. When I receive the Deloitte & Touche report we can look at some of the issues raised by the Deputy.
Is the Minister aware that the £300 training grant available under the community employment scheme is considered to be inadequate by many participants and that money was handed back as it was not spent in the year in which it was allocated? Will the Minister discuss with FÁS the adequacy of the training courses available to participants combining the scheme with training? Currently training is optional. If training courses were better targeted and held at more suitable times, more people would get more out of the scheme.
The figure of £300 has been the subject of complaints. I met a number of groups recently which complained that it was inadequate. This will be considered as part of the review which will take place following the receipt of the consultants' report. The purpose of the training provision is to bring long-term unemployed persons in particular to the stage where they will be able to access real and sustainable jobs by way of worthwhile community projects. The ideal is to marry all these elements together to ensure participants gain something worthwhile. This may not be true in all cases, particularly where training is not provided.
I am sure the Minister is aware that we all make representations on the type of case envisaged here where an extension would prove helpful. Does she have any figures on the departure from the norm, whether it be extensions from two years to three years, granted because of the peculiar requirements of the training needs of the sponsored project?
I do not have the statistics the Deputy has requested. Approximately 71 per cent of those who participated in community employment schemes during the past 12 months accessed real and sustainable jobs. That is a satisfactory figure.
(Dublin West): The Minister said this is an area in which one should not have hard and fast rules because of the complexities involved. ELAH, a voluntary counselling service based in Dublin 8 and accredited to the Irish association of counsellors and therapists, provides a five year training programme for participants from more marginalised socio-economic groupings. FÁS has granted this organisation, which is run by a number of very committed women, a special three year status, but it will still face a shortfall of two years. Will the Minister agree to make special arrangements to extend the CE scheme to the full five years in this instance? The result would be that the ELAH's members would gain a worthwhile qualification and would be in a position to participate professionally in drug treatment programmes and community based counselling services, which are urgently needed in areas in Dublin and elsewhere which have been hard hit economically.
Representations were made to me recently in respect of the group to which Deputies Joe Higgins and Broughan referred. I do not want to make a decision prior to receiving the Deloitte & Touche report. Suffice it to say that we want to be practical. Five years may be necessary in exceptional cases but there are many people who want to access community employment. It is a case of trying to marry the various needs with the budgetary resources available.
I will examine the requests made by Deputies and the organisation in question to see if we can facilitate the ongoing training of its members and if a five year period is necessary. While the organisation has expertise in this area and has stated that such a period is required, that does not mean we are obliged to accept its advice.
In the review of FÁS, will the Minister consider the role of employers as trainers? Employers receive funding from FÁS to pay unemployed people while they are training. I am not blaming FÁS but it might be better if permanent jobs were created. I suggest that using employers — be they involved in the hotel or retail industries — as trainers under the supervision of FÁS would create additional jobs.
The role of employers as trainers has been considered in the context of Enterprise Ireland, to which responsibility for a large part of FÁS's services to business division is being transferred to encourage employers to focus on the need to train employees. This year additional funding was made available for the training of employed people. There are various models we can use because FÁS is not the answer to all problems involving training and a number of other organisations do outstanding work in this area. It is a question of trying to ensure that we discover the most efficient way of training the maximum number of people.
In light of the ongoing review, it would not have made sense to change the existing rules until its investigations are complete. Given that this will happen in the next fortnight, we will be in a better position to consider these issues at that point.
In view of events surrounding the publication of other reports, will the Minister give a commitment not to publish the Deloitte & Touche report on a Saturday or Sunday evening and will she give Opposition Deputies adequate notice of its publication?
Is the Minister concerned that this year's targets for people taking up community employment schemes have not been reached and that many individuals are opting for the area allowance scheme? I understand only 21,000 of 27,000 places have been taken up on CE schemes which means that 6,000 remain available. Is there any reason for this?
There are various schemes and different things work for different people. The part-time jobs scheme is very attractive for a certain cohort of people. I do not believe there are many vacancies left for community employment schemes, in fact there is a huge demand for places. It is a question of trying to put in place a good regional spread in respect of community employment. This year approximately 41,000 people will be involved in CE schemes. That is a high number, given the state of the economy and the numbers of individuals involved in other programmes. The system is satisfactory but we intend to address any gaps which may exist in it.
To be fair FÁS has responded rapidly to the huge number of participants — 41,000 — in community employment throughout the country, which shows a great determination on its part. The system is working satisfactorily but gaps and overlaps appear from time to time. Deputy Perry and others contacted me recently about rural areas where there are not enough people to meet the qualifying criteria to start a community employment scheme. We must ensure that in urban and rural areas community employment is accessible to as many as possible who wish to participate.
