Jim O'Keeffe
Question:5 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for the Environment and Local Government the number of applicants on housing lists; and the proposals, if any, he has to deal with this. [24057/98]
Other Questions. - Local Authority Housing.
Eamon Gilmore
Question:10 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for the Environment and Local Government the number of persons on local authority housing waiting lists; the number of local authority dwellings expected to be completed during 1998; the number of extra local authority houses which it is expected to provide arising from additional money provided in the Estimates; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24094/98]
Question:
27 Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for the Environment and Local Government the number of applications for local authority housing; the policy of his Department in respect of relieving the growing problem of housing lists; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17659/98]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 5, 10 and 27 together.
Assessments of local authority housing needs in accordance with section 9 of the Housing Act, 1988, are carried out every three years. I have directed that the next assessments be carried out at 31 March 1999. The assessments will provide details of the extent and nature of housing needs in each local authority area.
Comprehensive guidelines have issued to local authorities in a memorandum in relation to carrying out the assessments of need for housing accommodation and sites for travellers, and of the number of homeless persons. Copies of the memorandum have been placed in the Oireachtas Library.
Details of the assessment of housing needs carried out in March 1996 for each local authority are given in my Department's housing statistics bulletin for 1996 which is available in the Oireachtas Library.
I expect that about 3,500 houses will be completed or purchased by local authorities in 1998. These, together with output from the complementary social housing measures and vacancies occurring in the existing housing stock, will enable some 9,500 households to be catered for in 1998. This figure should increase to 10,000 households in 1999.
Social housing programmes have been the main beneficiaries of the increased resources devoted to housing in the Estimates published last week. Having regard to increasing needs and reflecting the Government's commitment in An Action Programme for the Millennium to the local authority housing programme, I have secured greatly increased resources for the provision of local authority housing for 1999. A capital provision of almost £230 million will be available to local authorities. This is an increase of almost £35 million, or 18 per cent, on the 1998 provision of £194 million. This substantial increase provides for the expansion of the local authority housing programme from 3,900 to 4,500 starts in 1999.
Another measure which will contribute to meeting social housing need is the increase which I have secured in the level of assistance available under the capital assistance scheme for voluntary housing. From 1 December, the limits for single or two person units will be £44,000 in cities and the greater Dublin area and £37,000 elsewhere, increases of 63 per cent and 37 per cent respectively since this Government took office. The equivalent limits for family type housing are £55,000 and £47,000, increases of 67 per cent and 42 per cent respectively in the same period.
The Minister of State forgot to put these percentages in the press release.
Local authorities will be notified shortly of their programme of authorised starts for 1999. It is a matter for local authorities to respond to housing needs in their areas by developing the full potential of the various measures available to them. I will remind them that the traditional means of meeting social housing needs through the provision of local authority housing should continue to be supplemented by the range of other social housing measures. I expect that the greatly enhanced provision for the social housing programmes for 1999 will considerably improve the capacity to meet social housing needs.
Mr. Hayes
As the Minister of State referred to social housing, what is his position on the establishment of a housing commission? Last May in the House he stated that he rejected the proposal. During the summer he told the Society of St. Vincent de Paul he was amenable to the suggestion. What is his view? Is it similar to his position on gazumping, that is, to wait one or two years before taking action?
Does the Minister of State think it appropriate and correct to immediately introduce an emergency assessment of housing need, given that the last assessment took place in March 1996? Why must we wait until March next year for an assessment? Is it not the case that since this Government took office housing lists nationally have increased by more than 50 per cent?
Housing lists have increased. The Government has taken action to deal with them by providing substantially increased financial resources and other assistance to ensure a steady provision of housing for those who are in need.
I do not recall ever flatly rejecting the suggestion of a commission. I indicated to the voluntary housing associations with whom I have been in contact that I was prepared to look at the idea. I have an open mind about what steps should be taken to increase the supply of housing. I am open to suggestions——
Mr. Hayes
What is the decision?
——from any quarter. I invited the housing associations for their suggestions and I provided funding through one of those associations to hold an international conference on this subject.
Mr. Hayes
What is the decision?
I had recent discussions with them and asked them to put forward their suggestions with regard to what terms of reference might be given to such a commission. I received those suggestions during another recent meeting and they are currently being examined. I will respond to them in the near future.
There is a statutory requirement under the housing Acts to conduct a major comprehensive assessment of housing applications in each local authority every three years. That is the assessment being carried out. All local authorities have access to information on their housing lists and I have been in contact with them to assess the situation in an ad hoc manner. I cannot get the exact and comprehensive information a housing assessment would provide but I can get a rough indication of what is happening.
There are substantial increases in the number of applications to local authorities. Major social changes are also taking place which are adding more people to the housing lists. The price of houses has also——
Including Government inaction on house prices.
——led to increases in housing lists. The full and comprehensive picture will not be available until next year. It is an extremely detailed assessment. The level of information that was sought in the past has been extended to get more information from the survey. It will be extremely valuable for planning housing policy over the next——
Mr. Hayes
The Government does not have a housing policy. That is the point.
——three to four years. When we were elected to office there did not appear to be a housing policy in place. Housing lists and house prices were increasing but action was not taken by the outgoing Government to deal with them. The difficulties I encountered were inherited from those who had gloriously turned a blind eye to the problems.
Can the Chair do anything about the greenhouse gas emissions from the Minister of State?
The Government has taken a great deal of unprecedented action during the short time it has been in office. It will continue to do so. It is the Government's intention to use every possible means——
The Minister of State is a walking disaster of greenhouse gases.
——of increasing the supply of affordable homes so people can continue to have a reasonable expectation of owning their own home, where possible.
Is the Minister of State aware that in 1998, 148 houses were built for Dublin Corporation? Is he aware that in 1989 the number was nil, in 1990 it was 25, in 1991 it was 74, in 1992 it was 80, in 1993 it was 71, in 1994 it was 277——
The Deputy is giving more information than he is seeking. The purpose of Question Time is to seek information.
I was prefacing the question and I had almost finished. In 1995 the number was 366, in 1996 it was 310 and in 1997 it was 181. The estimate for this year is 230. Is the Minister of State further aware that this figure compares with a high of more than 1,700 houses per annum built for Dublin Corporation in the early 1980s?
Does he agree that local authority housing stock as a share of total housing stock is shrinking and is down from 20 per cent in the 1960s to less than 9 per cent today? Does he also agree that it is one of the smallest local authority housing stock shares in Europe and is the fastest declining?
Would he, therefore, agree that it is time to examine, first, the option of creating a common housing list for all local authorities in Dublin and, second, the possibility of building houses — on the scale of those built in Tallaght, Clondalkin and Blanchardstown — for Dublin Corporation in other counties, while providing the necessary infrastructure to bring people to and from the city and putting in place a good social mix from the beginning to avoid later problems? Is it not time to examine that approach to dealing with the problem?
If there is a massive local authority house building programme, it will remove the pressure from the private sector and give people an opportunity to purchase houses, an opportunity they do not have at present.
I agree there is a need for a substantial increase in the provision of new local authority housing. I succeeded in securing additional funding to ensure that an extra 600 local authority houses will be started in 1999. Allocations have not yet been made as to where the extra starts will be located.
When looking at the housing funding being provided by the Government, one must take into account existing housing stock in the Dublin area. There is a great deal of old housing accommodation which is not suitable for habitation in this day and age. The Government is committing substantial sums of money towards the regeneration of these old housing estates to ensure that the people who live there will have a better quality of life.
In the Estimates, the Government has committed itself to a programme which will cost £90 million over a period of five years to regenerate approximately nine blackspot local authority housing areas in Dublin city. That is a major commitment to ensuring that local authority tenants can live in comfortable surroundings. This Government has also taken the initiative in providing for the removal of older apartments and flat complexes which, in themselves, were causing major social problems for their inhabitants.
The regeneration of Ballymun is ongoing. A total of £20 million is being provided for it in this year's Estimates. The previous Government talked about regeneration but did not provide one penny towards it. This Government is providing the funding and the programme is under way.
Mr. Hayes
The Government parties built Ballymun.
A great deal is being done. A sum of £19.5 million is being provided for remedial works other than the two projects I mentioned. When the extra 600 houses are being allocated, I will bear in mind Deputy Mitchell's comments on the needs in Dublin.
However, it is worth emphasising that there are other options through which local authorities can work with the voluntary housing agencies to increase the number of homes that can be made available for people who currently qualify for the housing lists and for others with medium incomes. I am not satisfied we are achieving the level of output that should be achieved from the assistance being provided through the capital assistance and the rental subsidy schemes. The two schemes have great potential. There is also the low cost sites scheme which has largely not been availed of by the local authorities.
There are a number of schemes in the system which should add to the overall output of public housing but which are not being availed of to the optimum level. I am working on creating greater awareness among the members and officials of local authorities about the potential that exists. I am also trying to ease difficulties or obstacles that might have created problems for housing authorities in achieving higher output levels under the schemes.
Does the Minister accept that more and more people are being added to housing lists because private landlords are selling property? There are many instances of this in my constituency. There was the example which I raised here of Crampton Buildings in Temple Bar. As a result of the booming economy, landlords will make a great deal of money from selling these properties. In response to various questions which I tabled to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, I have been told that this is a constitutional problem. We cannot provide security of tenure for tenants because we afford such huge rights to property owners in the Constitution. If we are to move towards a European model where people live in rented accommodation, will the Department co-operate with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and whoever else necessary to amend the Constitution?
I am in discussions with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform in regard to ways in which tenants could be given greater security of tenure. Those discussions are ongoing. This is a complex area, particularly taking into account what the Deputy stated about the Constitution. I hope that out of that may come some positive proposals which we could implement to make it more attractive for people to take the renting option. The rented sector has a major part to play in providing homes for people. The vast majority of Irish people aspire to owning their own home.
Those days are over.
There is a big percentage who would be happier to have rented accommodation and greater disposable income. I am conscious of that and I agree with what the Deputy said about the need to have the matter examined.
What was the increase in the building cost index between the previous time at which the cost limits under the voluntary housing scheme were fixed and the last occasion to which the Minister referred? Has he satisfied himself that the percentage increase which he has mentioned at least maintains the real value of the cost limits which have been fixed?
I would be happy to supply the Deputy with that information. I would remind him again that this is part of the brief which I inherited. These limits had not been increased until I increased them last November. They had gone out of kilter with what was happening in the marketplace.
I did not ask about the Minister's inheritance.
I know the Deputy did not because he did not want the answer. The Deputy's party's negligence in Government has helped to create the kind of difficulties which exist now in regard to the demand.
The Minister is not interested.
I am interested in the housing problem.
I want to know would it build the same kind of house today that it would have built two years ago.
The Deputy asked about the cost index and I will give him that information. If I had not increased the limits, there would have been a continuation of the situation which I found when I came into office.
I will give the Minister a handkerchief.
The number of houses being built under the voluntary housing schemes——
He should sit down and stop making an ass of himself.
——run by the Department was dropping. That was something on which the previous Government should have taken action. I know the Deputy does not like me to say this but that is the reality.
(Dublin West): Does the Minister agree that a home is one of the most urgent human needs and, therefore, an affordable home for all is a fundamental human right? In view of that, does he agree that 600 extra starts in 1999 is pathetic as an alleged measure to end the suffering of people on the waiting lists — the over-crowding, the tensions, the worries and the distress which public representatives see on a weekly basis? In Fingal County Council alone, in the year to last month 1,400 extra people joined the housing list.
Will the Minister agree that the rule of profiteering which has seen house prices rise by 107 per cent in the new private market in four and a half years is immoral and outrageous, and that the political parties of this and the previous Government which have not taken on the profiteers should be condemned? Will he agree that an emergency investment programme is crucial now so that in a three to five year period the waiting lists can be addressed and everybody can be accommodated? Will the Minister agree that the expected £90 million which will be given this year to private landlords by health boards is a scandalous subsidisation of those who have contributed to the housing crisis, and that instead those funds should be used, for example, to finance a major investment programme? Up to £1 billion of bor-rowed money could be financed by £90 million per year. That would go a substantial way towards providing permanent homes for those people who are at the mercy of the private landlord sector.
The Government has allocated £521 million for housing in the Estimates for next year. The provision of homes for people is a top priority with this Government. With the amount of taxpayers' money which is being provided to assist in the provision of the housing programme, I and many others would be of the opinion that we could achieve a much higher number of housing units were it not for the fact that building prices and land prices are so excessive, and they are excessive because of the supply problem that exists.
(Dublin West): Nonsense.
There is a schizophrenic approach on the part of people who support the need for public housing and to tackle house prices and on the other hand oppose the zoning of land for housing and the implementation of higher densities on lands where it is appropriate and which could be achieved with good result. If we continue to keep a limit on the amount of land on which we are prepared to allow houses to be built, then we are perpetuating high prices for building land. The overall housing problem is one of supply and demand. The only way in which it can be tackled is to increase the supply and bring it into equilibrium with the demand. We must start with the availability of land for building. If that is maintained artificially low, then the price will be high.
One must take all those factors into account. We are not getting good value for the sum of more than £0.5 billion which we are making available. I am approving public housing tenders and contracts for amounts which are grossly in excess of what was required two or three years ago. Therefore, I am getting a poor return in terms of the number of houses for the huge increase in taxpayers' money which the Government is committing to this problem. We are looking at every possible angle to see how we can increase the supply of land, the supply of services to land and the supply of houses. It is only by increasing the supply to equilibrium with the level of existing demand that we can bring some sense and reason back to house prices.
(Dublin West): It is the profiteering——
The Deputy is creating the opportunity for profiteering.
(Dublin West): There is enough land for ten years.
Does the Minister agree that there needs to be a change in the shared ownership scheme? This scheme has more or less ground to a halt because it no longer takes into account the serious increase in the price of houses even in rural areas. If it was changed to allow a lesser amount of the house purchase price to be borne by the purchaser, it would be a means to enable more people to buy second hand houses.
The shared ownership scheme, which I was the first to advocate in this House many years ago, is one of the ways in which we should be able to achieve a substantial increase in the housing output. Not enough use is being made of the shared ownership scheme. I increased the income limits for a single person to £20,000 last year — the Minister introduced it in the Finance Bill, 1998. We are looking at the shared ownership scheme to see how it can be adjusted further to make it more attractive. Many people are not aware of the shared ownership scheme but if encouraged would avail of that option. I am considering the possibility of an advertising campaign rather than relying on local authorities to advertise the availability of these schemes. Also, I am working with the local authorities to ensure the eligibility procedures for shared ownership are simplified, where possible, to make it more attractive for people to use it.
(Dublin West): People cannot get houses for £90,000.
We have spent 25 minutes on this question and we have to move on. I remind Members that Question Time is not debating time.
There is a housing crisis and that is the reason these questions are taking some time.
It is one I inherited.
What about capital acquisitions tax and all these things which the Minister inherited.
The Minister should not leave them behind. Will he consider a Dublin index for the shared ownership scheme, given that it does not work in Dublin any more, no matter what income limit is put on it? Is he aware that in the Dublin Corporation housing stock sites, there is a maximum of 2,000 left on which to build in the city? Given that we have an unprecedented housing crisis, will he consider building Dublin Corporation housing estates outside Dublin, for those Dubliners who want to go, not as a solution but as a contribution to solving the problem? We were able to build Blanchardstown, Tallaght and Clondalkin in much poorer times.
The Deputy should not proceed by means of a statement.
The Deputy looked after the people with BMWs in their front gardens. Think of the poor people——
Mr. Hayes
The Minister said he believes there is a supply problem. That is part of the problem. Will he further accept there is an affordability problem? We have witnessed an increase of 103 per cent in the price of houses in Dublin in the past three years. Will the Government consider measures for first time buyers to help them get over a very difficult stage of funding? Will he consider substitution measures and has he had discussions with the Minister for Finance in light of the forthcoming budget to ensure first time buyers can receive additional substitution to get over the affordability problem?
I am not clear on what the Deputy means by substitution. I am not familiar with the word in this context. Perhaps he will explain it.
Mr. Hayes
The first time buyers grant would be an example of substitution; stamp duty would be another.
Is the Deputy talking about a subsidy or increasing the first-time buyers grant? A basic economic rule which is understood by everybody operating in the housing area is that if the first-time buyers grant is increased, the builder's margin is increased, the problem is increased and the price is inflated.
Mr. Hayes
They cannot afford to buy a house.
The way in which to tackle this problem is through supply, not by artificial subsidisation. That is the reality——
Mr. Hayes
Not entirely.
——and any sensible person will answer that question for the Deputy.
I am calling Question No. 6. We have allowed 30 minutes on these questions.
The Minister did not answer the question.