Vol. 497 No. 4
7 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the role of the Minister of State with responsibility for children within his Department; his role with regard to the progress of the Children Bill through the Houses of the Oireachtas; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25176/98]
The Justice, Equality and Law Reform (Delegation of Ministerial Functions) Order, 1998, made by the Taoiseach on behalf of the Government on 14 February 1998, delegated the powers and duties of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform conferred on him by, or under, the Children Acts, 1908 to 1989, to Deputy Fahey, Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Consequent to that delegation, the Minister of State has responsibility for progressing the Children Bill, 1996, through the Houses of the Oireachtas.
On assuming responsibility for the Children Bill earlier this year, the Minister of State initiated a thorough review of its provisions. He also visited New Zealand in September to study at first hand that country's juvenile justice system, with particular emphasis on its innovative approach to family group conferencing and restorative justice. Both the review and the study of the New Zealand system will result in many amendments being proposed for the Committee Stage of the Bill. It is hoped that these can be published in time to commence Committee Stage early in the new year.
Will the Minister give a definitive indication of exactly when Committee Stage will be taken? Why has there been such a delay in taking Committee Stage of the Bill? Will the Minister assure us that a sufficient number of places will be available for children who are out of control, so that the courts can send them to appropriate centres if that is deemed necessary? Will the Minister assure us we will no longer have to rely on the Judiciary to create the initiatives in regard to the treatment and management of children with difficulties who are out of control?
In regard to perceived delays, the difficulty is that this is a very large and comprehensive Bill with 230 sections. The Bill will probably have become larger rather than smaller by the time it is enacted. The Minister of State has been working very hard since assuming responsibility for this Bill, which he wants to improve and make more relevant, particularly in the area of preventing juvenile offending, or preventing further offending where it has already occurred.
This is the first major review of juvenile justice legislation since the foundation of the State and it is imperative that we get it right. I was in Opposition when the Bill was introduced and I stated in the House at that time that I believed it required certain substantial amendments, which I clearly still believe. As the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, I want to ensure that the amendments which I proposed then are now incorporated into the Bill.
It is particularly necessary for us to be definitive, one way or the other, in relation to the age of criminal responsibility. There is no doubt there is a need for young people to have to face up to their offences. In this context, the holding of family conferences is of perennial importance. There are other issues which should be given very careful consideration before this legislation is enacted.
In regard to the sufficiency of places, I remind Deputy Upton that the whole question of the detention of children is, in the main, one for the Minister for Education and Science, for fairly obvious reasons. However, I accept there is a need to ensure we have adequate places for young people and that this should be given priority consideration where deficiencies are identified.
(Mayo): In regard to the insufficiency of places, how many juvenile offenders were referred from the courts last year? What is the existing complement of spaces? In other words, what is the relationship between supply and demand?
These are statistical questions to which I do not have the answers. In any event, as I said, some of these matters straddle the responsibility of another Minister. However, in view of Deputy Higgins' interest in the matter, I will try to obtain the information he has requested and communicate it to him.
Will the Minister agree there is an inadequacy of scope for improvement in the various services for children provided by the Departments of Health and Children, Education and Science and his Department? Will he further agree it is now time to give urgent consideration to the question of locating all the services for children in one unit in one Department, so that the possibility of passing the buck from one Department to another can finish once and for all?
The Government recognises the need for a co-ordinating Minister to ensure responsibility can be identified, which is why the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, has been given specific responsibility for the area of children. That is why, for example, he is going to progress the Children Bill, 1996, on Committee Stage. There is now in place a co-ordinating Minister of State who is readily identifiable as having responsibility in this area. The Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, has been working assiduously on the Children Bill, 1996, and on all areas affecting children.
(Mayo): Apropos that answer to the very worthy suggestion made by Deputy Upton, it is fine to talk about a Minister co-ordinating what is happening at present, but what is needed is one Minister with specific responsibility for this entire area. For example, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has responsibility for St. Patrick's Institution while St. Michael's and some of the other centres come under the control of the Department of Education and Science. Those who stand most indicted in this regard are the health boards. With the exception of the Eastern Health Board and the Southern Health Board, which has six places, none of the other health boards is discharging its responsibility in relation to emotionally disturbed children.
There is a huge crossover in this area and what is everyone's business is no one's business. There is not only a need for the Minister of State to coordinate what is happening at present, there is a need to assign specific responsibility, when this Bill is passed, to one Minister who will have overall, ultimate responsibility for all matters relating to juvenile offenders, potential juvenile offenders and emotionally disturbed children. Unless we go in that direction we will never get to the bottom of the problem.
I am glad the Deputy raised the matter as the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Fahey, has established an expert working group to examine certain aspects of the juvenile justice system and in particular to inquire into the increasing number of children appearing before the Children's Court. The group is examining intervention and prevention strategies, non-custodial options and best practice models in other jurisdictions where community sanctions are in place. In addition, I understand the working group has commissioned independent research into the profile and number of children coming before the Children's Court and their behavioural patterns. It is fair to say the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, is treating the matter extremely seriously. He is recognising his co-ordinating role, but has also acted through the working group to obtain the research which is necessary to advance the situation in relation to children's propensity to re-offend and non-custodial sanctions.
