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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 25 Mar 1999

Vol. 502 No. 5

Genetically Modified Organisms: Statements (Resumed).

(Dublin West): Earlier, on behalf of Fine Gael, Deputy Dukes made an intervention that was quite ignorant in the way it attacked opponents of genetic engineering. However, his contribution was inadequate in terms of a major political party outlining a balanced position. In particular, it totally failed to deal with the critical impact of genetic engineering on the environment and the ecosystems of the world which have developed over millions of years.

Monsanto makes plants and crops resistant to their weedkillers which they sell worldwide and also produce millions of acres of genetically engineered crops, which they also sell in the world seed market. Genetic engineering involves taking seeds from separate and disparate species and inserting them in other species with which they have no natural affinity. For example, genes from fish and bacteria are inserted into such varying crops as tomatoes and corn. These seeds are then scattered over millions of acres of land. In the case of the United States, there are tens of millions of acres of genetically modified soya and maize.

The changes are irreparable; the seeds cannot be recalled once they are released. That is totally different to traditional breeding and seed selection methods which have been used by people everywhere to ensure food security and quality. Multinationals want to release radically mutated crops into the environment after a number of years of experimentation under laboratory conditions with no knowledge of what the consequences will be in generations to come. Under different natural conditions they may exhibit characteristics and behaviours which cannot be predicted. This could be potentially catastrophic in terms of crop failure and so on.

The agenda of multinationals is clear. They want to control world seed markets by reducing the number of species and also control the number of varieties of genetically altered crops. That does not just include soya and maize, but, for example, rice production in the Third World. They then want to tie farmers worldwide into their contracts and disallow their right to take the best seeds when harvesting so that they can sow them the following year.

This poses a massive threat to biodiversity globally and also to food security. What if the selected genetically engineered crops experience a catastrophic failure at any time in the future, which is entirely possible? Biodiversity could be so reduced for the main food staples of the world that food production capacity could be devastated. That is dismissed by some as scaremongering, but it is irrefutable. They cannot guarantee that this will not happen. Should we trust multinationals, such as Monsanto, with food quality and security? This company has distinguished itself through the production of agent orange, a poisonous chemical that laid waste to millions of acres of vegetation in Vietnam and continues to poison to innocent children there.

Propaganda by multinationals that genetic engineering of food will feed the world is bogus. Hunger and malnutrition come not from the lack of capacity to produce food but from the ruthless control of food markets by capitalist companies for profits. The genetic engineering of animals to increase the amount of food they yield, which is also going on apace, is unethical, involves severe cruelty and also has unknown health risks. A number of instances demonstrate the dangers involved. An experiment was conducted to put an extra growth hormone gene into salmon. One group of offspring hatched from transgenic parents developed deformed heads and various degrees of discoloration which led to reduced viability according to a 1994 report. Pigs were treated with a sheep growth hormone activated by zinc in the diet. One pig produced a twenty fold increase in growth hormone levels and it died as a result of acute gastric haemorrhage due to ulceration when the zinc was withdrawn. I am indebted to Compassion in World Farming for bringing those proven examples to my attention.

Labelling is absolutely critical. While I want an end to genetic engineering in the wild and want GMOs off supermarket shelves, we must at least demand labelling. The current labelling legislation is a joke. A typical pack of Bacon Fries contains both maize and soya protein but the fact that it is genetically modified is written in such small type, one would need a magnifying glass. Radical changes are needed in this area.

Genetic Concern took up an excellent initiative to conduct independent research on people's concerns about genetic engineering. It showed clearly that a huge majority of people want information and are massively concerned about the current situation. Fianna Fáil and the Government have adopted an entirely cowardly, and utterly opportunist, approach in this regard. Fianna Fáil correctly stated prior to the last general election that companies involved in the development of genetic engineering were treating populations like guinea pigs. The party started to retreat from this position after the general election and that retreat has since turned into a rout as Fianna Fáil trots out EU regulations. Where the health of our people and the security of our ecosystems are at stake, no regulation must stand in the way of people resisting the threat which exists. The United States is attempting to bully the EU to allow unlabelled genetically engineered produce into Europe. We must have the guts to stand up to them to ensure the security of our ecosystems, the safety of our food supply and the health of our people. That must come first.

I am delighted this debate has eventually reached this forum. For the past two years, there has been a great deal of speculation on this issue in the media; the debate has been driven by soundbites and, in some cases, misinformation on both sides of the argument.

Deputy Higgins stated that in April 1997 the current Government, then in Opposition, called for a moratorium on commercial crop planting. It has been silent ever since and that silence has fuelled public fear. The absence of a public debate on the issue has been a very important missing dimension. The Minister for the Environment and Local Government informed us that it is not possible to introduce a moratorium when in Government because of EU directives. I am surprised he was not aware of that himself when in Opposition. I am relatively new to this House but I realise that EU regulations restrict us from calling for a moratorium on the commercial planting of these crops. Austria, Luxembourg and France have attempted to impose moratoria but have met with opposition.

They succeeded in doing so.

There is an ongoing debate on this issue within the EU at the moment. I would like the Minister for the Environment and Local Government to lead the call for a moratorium, if that is what is required. We are being inundated with science but we do not really need it at present and should take things at a pace which suits us. Deputy Dukes earlier called for a five year moratorium and I support that. We should step back and assess the impact of these crops in a timeframe which is suitable to us.

The public is confused. People are caught in the middle of a debate between the biotechnology industry which supports GMOs and those opposed to them. There has not been any Government-led debate on the issue. The Government produced a consultation document last September but it was not widely read as its very size and wording were off-putting to people.

A referendum was held in Ireland last year on the Treaty of Amsterdam and the Good Friday Agreement. The Government posted explanatory leaflets into every household at that time. Why can it not do the same now on the important issue of genetic engineering which will be very much a part of industry and job creation in the future? The public needs more information on the current status of genetic engineering and its effects on our food, crops and so on. People must be informed of who controls genetic engineering and the manner in which it is controlled and regulated. The Government has this information and should do much more to inform consumers who push trolleys up and down supermarket aisles every week and are dependent on the authorities to ensure their food is safe. Outrageous statements have been made to the effect that the food on supermarket shelves is putting people's lives at risk, yet the Government has not offered any reassurance on the matter.

Consultation conferences were referred to. I believe they would be very useful and I am sorry the Minister for the Environment and Local Government dismissed them. A conference is currently being considered for the UK where the attitudes of six citizen juries will be measured. A total of 1,000 people will be recruited from a ran dom sample of 5,000 adults for the purpose of testing public attitudes to GMOs. There is also a similar Norwegian example which was referred to earlier in the debate. Such conferences could prove very useful in involving the public in this debate to a greater extent.

I strongly support the call for more detailed labelling. Consumers will then be in a position to make informed choices. The term 'genetic engineering' on the back of a packet will mean nothing to people. A total of 60 per cent of processed foods contain soya or soya derivatives. Fish fingers, chicken curries and chicken nuggets, which are a key element in most children's diets, are made from soya derivatives and contain GMOs. The Food Safety Authority of Ireland assures us that the foodstuffs currently on supermarket shelves do not pose any risk to health. The Government must reassure people, stand behind the authority and provide it with more resources. That also applies to the EPA. Only one person within the EPA has responsibility for GMOs in the environment.

The value of genetic engineering in the revolution of health care has been referred to. The manner in which is has revolutionised agriculture has given rise to widespread public concern and anxiety. The facility now exists to engineer crops and plants such as sugar beet, soya and maize in order to make them resistant to herbicides and pesticides. Such crops are being marketed on the basis that the amount of herbicides and pesticides used is reduced, thus proving more beneficial to the environment and the consumer. Five sugar beet field trials have been carried out in Ireland in the past year.

The global area of genetically modified produce planted is increasing at a staggering rate every year although there is very little in Europe thus far. Genetic engineering has much to offer us but we must control and regulate it. We must allay public fears and examine the issues on a case by case basis. That is the way forward.

As Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food I welcome the opportunity to speak on this very important topic and to congratulate my colleague, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government, on publishing his consultation paper on genetically modified organisms and the environment. It provides an opportunity for the general public to participate in the development of a national policy on GMOs and the environment.

I would point out that Ireland has a strong biotechnology sector in which some 170 national and multinational companies are represented. BioResearch Ireland, which was established in 1987, has five centres of biotechnology research and development based in the universities. These centres specialise in diagnostics, food biotechnology, agriculture and veterinary biotechnology, cell and tissue culture and pharmaceutical biotechnology.

It should also be remembered that the EU Commission's White Paper on Growth, Competitiveness and Employment acknowledged modern biotechnology as one of the areas offering the greatest potential for innovation and growth. It concluded that the Community should be open to reviewing its regulatory framework in order that the full potential of genetic engineering for jobs, investment and growth can be realised.

It goes without saying that GMOs released into the environment for use as seed, food or feed production must not pose a risk to the health and safety of humans and animals. Neither must GMOs cause biological damage by upsetting the balance in nature. Increasingly, genetically modified products are being released into the environment as seed and crops for use as novel food for humans and feed for animals. These genetically modified products undergo rigorous research and assessment procedures before they can be approved for release into the environment for use in the production of food and animal feeds, or as other medical, pharmaceutical or crop protection products.

All member states of the EU have established scientific committees to carry out a rigorous risk assessment on GMOs. Ireland has a GMO advisory committee which advises the Environmental Protection Agency on the environmental safety of GMOs. A GMO and novel foods sub-committee under the Food Safety Authority of Ireland's scientific committee is providing advice to the EPA on the animal feed aspects of GMO dossiers received. My Department has a nominee on both committees.

It must also be emphasised that the European Union takes the issue of human, animal and environmental safety from GMOs and GMO derived products seriously. To this end it has set up seven scientific committees in the field of consumer health and food safety. The work of these scientific committees is co-ordinated by a scientific steering committee. These committees are within DG24, the directorate responsible for consumer affairs in the EU. Committees of relevance to GMOs consist of scientific committees for food, animal nutrition, for plants, including pesticides, and toxicity, ecotoxcity and the environment. Their advice on matters relating to human health is based on the principles of excellence, independence and transparency.

In the interest of safety to humans, animals and the environment, it is of paramount importance that products of biotechnology are adequately regulated. Regulations covering labelling is essential to allow consumers make an informed choice. It is also necessary to amend the legislation as required to take account of experiences gained with GMOs already released into the environment.

My Department has responsibility for implementing a series of five seeds marketing directives, a vegetable seed catalogue directive and the common seed catalogue directive. In terms of developing a link between the catalogue directive and the Deliberate Release Directive (90/220 EEC), the forthcoming amendment to the common catalogue directive will introduce provisions requiring the identification of genetically modified seed varieties as such in the common, national and sales catalogues and making the inclusion of genetically modified varieties in catalogues subject to consideration of safety for human health and the environment, based on an environmental risk assessment similar to that provided for in the Deliberate Release Directive (90/220 EEC).

Currently, genetically modified feedstuffs for animals are regulated under the deliberate release directive. This is an interim arrangement, pending the introduction of an EU specific regulation for feed stuffs. The deliberate release directive was amended in 1997 to provide for the labelling of feed materials at the level of whole seeds but once it is processed into a feeding stuff, for example when milled, there is currently no labelling provision. The GMO and novel foods sub-committee under the Food Safety Authority of Ireland's scientific committee is currently providing advice to the EPA on the animal feed aspects of GMOs. I hope that the promised feed specific EU wide legislation can be progressed with a view to implementation at the earliest date.

The most striking benefits of biotechnology are to be seen in the area of human medicine. The production of insulin for the treatment of diabetes readily comes to mind. Other products include growth hormones, enzymes and special proteins required by humans. To date, 18 GMO products have been approved in the EU under the deliberate release directive. These range from a vaccine against Aujeszky's disease in pigs, a vaccine against rabies, genetically modified carnations and chicory and a test kit to detect antibiotics in milk. Ten of the releases consist of various crop plants with in-built resistance to herbicides and insects.

(Dublin West): They killed the insects and the birds which ate the insects.

These transgenic plants are of interest to crop producers for economic reasons but also because of ease of management. Herbicide resistant crops can benefit the environment since they require less herbicide to produce weed free crops. More importantly the herbicide used is more environment friendly and breaks down naturally in the soil.

(Dublin West): I ask the Minister of State to give way as he has a right to do under Standing Orders.

The Minister has the right to do so, but the time available to him is very limited.

(Dublin West): This is very dangerous and wrong.

This is in contrast, for example, to present day sugar beet production which requires up to three applications of mixtures of herbicides which are residual and do not break down readily in the soil. Insect resistant transgenic plants also have specific benefits for the environment. Developing transgenic plants that are resistant to environment friendly plant protection products can benefit the environment and lead to more sustainable production in the long-term.

Biotechnology is a powerful tool for the development of products which benefit mankind and the environment. This technology needs to be properly managed to avoid damage to nature and the environment. Hence the need for strong, effective and precautionary legislation, and scientific assessment of GMOs at national and EU level. The concerns of consumers are paramount and the consumer's right to choose between genetically modified and conventional products must be protected. I welcome the consultation paper on genetically modified organisms prepared by my colleague the Minister for Environment and Local Government. I have every confidence that it will lead to an informed debate on the issues and in due course to the development of a generally agreed approach to this technology.

Our discussions on genetically modified foods is both timely and necessary. I have heard more about them in the past two years than I did in the previous 20 years. The issue is being carried along on the back of a raging controversy about what is safe and unsafe for humans to eat. The strange thing is that biotechnology is not new. From the early 1970s there have been remarkable breakthroughs and in the 30 years since then many worthwhile developments have taken place without any of the current furore.

I plainly see why people are very upset about genetically modified food getting into the food chain. Huge anxiety always results when people do not understand an issue, and it is very important for everyone, irrespective of whether one is for or against genetically modified foods, that we establish a forum where the issue can be debated without rancour or outlandish statements. I hope the Government, the Departments of Health and Children and Agriculture and Food, the EPA, the consumer associations, Gen etic Concern and everybody else will become involved in a forum and continue to discuss the matter. Later I will give a few reasons for this view.

There are a few facts on which we can rely. To my knowledge there has not yet been a single disaster in the context of genetically modified foods.

(Dublin West): That is wrong.

No, it is not.

Allow Deputy Connaughton to continue without interruption, please.

This is what is wrong with the debate on this issue. The Deputy will have an opportunity sooner or later to say what he wants. I have not heard of a disaster happening in this area in 30 years, although others might have, and independent scientists have spoken to me on the matter.

The advances of biotechnology in pharmaceuticals are nothing short of revolutionary. I have friends who take insulin which was developed through this technology. I did not know its origin for years. I am told biotechnology is extremely important in the treatment of cystic fibrosis. However, the main debate concerns genetically modified foods. No cloud hangs over the use of biotechnology in other areas, but it is a different story with food.

I cannot prove whether claims in this area are right or wrong because I am not an expert on the subject. However, I have attended some seminars and read some papers on the subject. One conclusion I have reached is that genetically modified food cannot be offloaded on a population which is not ready for it. If that were to happen, there would be a revolution, because people will not tolerate food whose origin they do not know and of which they do not approve. I can, therefore, understand why people would have problems with genetically modified food. However, if I were the managing director of Monsanto, I would not want it to happen that way because, if the public did not want to buy food containing GMOs because it did not believe it was safe, it would not be good for my business. It is against that background that it is extremely important there is consultation. I do not know at what level of intensity it should be, but there should be much more than there has been to date.

Some of the discussions I attended, at which both sides were represented went over the top. Some outlandish statements were made which I do not believe could be proved. There is a body of independent scientists around the world who should make known their views. They are independent in that they do not have chips on their shoulders and do not stand to make money from the venture. There are many hundreds of them around the world who do not view matters in the same way as those few to whom Deputy Higgins referred. We must allow for greater evaluation of this matter.

The pace at which genetically modified foods will find their way into supermarkets will be slow, apart from those which have already entered the market. There should be better labelling and it should not be in small print. This is of major importance to a housewife doing the weekly shopping if she wants to avoid genetically modified foods. However, I wonder how many will avoid them if the product is good, the price is right and it has an acceptable health certificate.

A fact even the most strident critic of genetically modified food accepts is that much of it exists already. Like most Irish people, I love cheese and have been eating it for years. I did not know until recently that it is made using genetically modified organisms. I do not understand why there has not been a furore over this, because cheese is part of the staple diet in almost every home in the country.

Perception is everything. There was a huge reduction in the consumption of beef during the BSE crisis and many people stopped eating it. Why have they started to eat it again given that the level of BSE has not reduced significantly? The reason is that people came to realise there were only 60 to 70 cases of BSE every year in a herd of several million cattle, that new traceability measures had been put in place and that the issue of hygiene in factories had been addressed. Nothing changed other than the measures taken to increase confidence, yet people started to eat beef again, and I have no doubt they will continue to do so. If a poll had been conducted at the height of the BSE crisis, most would have replied that they would not eat beef. If one were to be conducted now, however, the figure would be much less, although there are still cases of BSE. It is all about perception.

I grew sugar beet when I was younger and had a major problem with weed control. I often put three heavy and intensive sprays on the beet to control the weeds. Roundup, which as the House knows is not as toxic as Paraquat and other such products, was very effective in this regard. Genetic modification of sugar beet to assist in this regard makes sense provided it can be proved there are no side effects. I await the day that someone breeds a potato which is not subject to blight. I sincerely hope that day will come because blight has cost us a great deal of money, time and lives.

Whether people are for or against genetic modification, I hope they engage in open and honest debate and that there will not be as many outlandish claims.

I have been listening to the debate in my office and appreciate the contributions of Deputies. I am glad of the opportunity to address the House on this important issue. Genetically modified organisms have existed for more than 20 years, but it is only recently that the majority of people in Ireland have become aware of them. Genetic engineering is a technology used to alter the genetic material of living cells to make them capable of producing new substances or performing new functions. For example, GMOs are plants or bacteria whose genetic material has been altered, and they are widely used in the biomedical, pharmaceutical and chemical industries in contained use, that is, they are not released into the environment.

In the biomedical area, genetic engineering has become a widely used research technique in the past 20 years. The genetically modified organisms produced include those used in vaccines, process micro-organisms used for the production of pharmaceuticals, enzymes and reagents, and other model micro-organisms used in the course of biomedical research. There is also further research on understanding the molecular biology, including genetics, of animals, plants and micro-organisms. In these systems a gene for a particular molecule is inserted into an organism which then produces the drug. There are currently some 280 such drugs or vaccines in clinical trials, and 40 biotechnology drugs are in daily use by millions of people. A good example is insulin which has been used by diabetics worldwide since 1982. It is produced from GM bacteria rather than animals and in a cleaner, more controllable environment than was the case previously.

Increasingly GMOs are being used in agricultural and environmental applications which require that they be used on land or in water bodies, etc., to fulfil their function. This is legally referred to as "deliberately released into the environment". These GMOs are mainly crop plants or bacteria modified in specific ways. Bacteria, for instance, have been genetically engineered to allow them break down oil or other polutants for environmental clean up purposes.

The best known of the plant modifications are genes which make crops resistant to insect attack or tolerant of a specific herbicide. There are approximately 30 GM crops in use worldwide. Many more are awaiting approval. More than 70 million acres of GM crops were grown worldwide in 1998. It is estimated that at least 90 million acres will be grown this year. The main GM crops are corn, cotton, maize, rape seed, tomatoes, potatoes and sugar beet.

It is obvious the Minister of State supports genetic engineering.

Ordinary farmers are buying the seed in increasing numbers to reduce the need to use pesticides and thereby reduce costs, including labour. Other crops are favoured because of consumer demand, for example, potatoes which contain no pesticide residues.

Only a few hundred acres of these crops were grown in the European Union in 1998 because the regulatory process has not been resolved due to public uncertainty about GMOs. An added complication is that GM food is on the market because the European Union is obliged under GATT regulations to allow importation of soya and other products from the United States, much of which are genetically modified.

There has been strict testing of genetically modified crops in countries in which they have been approved such as the United States, Canada and Japan. Between 1987 and 1998 there were 28,000 field trials of 60 GM crops in 45 countries, few of which could be said to be lax in their regulatory procedures. They have analysed the evidence and decided that there is no basis to deny their use. They claim to be benefiting economically and environmentally. Trials of new crops will continue.

The extent of trials of GMOs within the European Union is impressive. Between October 1991 and June 1997 there were approximately 1,000 trials at 4,000 experimental sites of more than 30 GMO plant species in member states. As a result 16 GMOs have been placed on the market. A further nine or ten are awaiting approval. More than 250 field trials of sugar beet are being conducted in Europe. A single trial was conducted in Ireland in 1998.

GM technology has a lower credibility rating in the European Union than in the rest of the world. Various events unrelated to genetic engineering, for example, BSE, have caused the public to be less trusting of new technology. There are strong lobby groups opposed to new technologies. As a result the public has become nervous about GMOs.

The European Union is in a strange dilemma. There is a massive body of scientific information which suggests that genetic engineering is safe. Millions of acres of crops have been grown, millions of tonnes of food have been consumed; billions of doses of GM drugs have been administered and tens of thousands of trials have been conducted worldwide, all without serious cause for concern.

The Government is conscious that the subject of GMOs is a sensitive one and considers that giving advice to persuade the public that there are only benefits to be gained from developments in biotechnology and genetics is not the ideal approach. For this reason it decided earlier this month to establish an interdepartmental group chaired by my Department at assistant secretary-general level. It comprises representatives of the Departments of Enterprise, Trade and Employment; Health and Children; Agriculture and Food and the Environment and Local Government as well as a representative of the Food Safety Authority. It was convened immediately and has begun its important work of collecting and analysing all relevant material on this complex subject. It will liaise with all relevant Departments and public bodies with responsibility in this area with a view to producing a co-ordinated Government strategy on GMOs as soon as possible.

I am confident that, if the necessary systems are put in place to ensure safety and there is clear labelling for genetically modified products, the farmer and consumer will decide for themselves whether these crops and foods have a future. There was a reference to genetically modified cheese. This is incorrect. The manufacturing process includes a genetically modified enzyme.

Deputy Clune said there should be a moratorium on GMOs. Banning genetically modified products would have serious implications for products in daily use ranging from essential medicines and vaccines to foodstuffs posing a threat to people's health. It would also send the wrong message to the biotechnology industry.

(Dublin West): It is clear Fianna Fail is split on the issue.

My party will survive much longer than the Deputy's. We will not change our structures or colours. We will not be a hell raising operation—

(Dublin West): I was referring to genetic engineering.

—or try to frighten the people.

(Dublin West): What about the statement made prior to the election?

We have a constitutional duty to give them the facts, not fiction. The most accurate information should be available to permit a proper debate leading to a positive conclusion in the interests of everybody on the island.

(Dublin West): Does the Minister of State disown the pre-election statement?

This debate, although long overdue, is timely given the publicity the issue has received due to the efforts of the environmental NGOs and the courageous, upstanding citizens who disturbed the field trials. I know some of them and I fully support their efforts. They are being portrayed as common criminals but they have done us a service by drawing attention to the issue. The public is now genuinely concerned.

During the debate on the Plant Varieties Bill I was heckled by all sides – Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and the Labour Party. Predictably, Deputy Dukes engaged in heckling again today. He said that the Greens were living on cloud nine. This is reserved for those who have been proved right. As Mark Twain once said, a crank is only a crank until he has been proved right. We have been proved right time and again. We were the first party to warn of the dangers of nuclear power but were dismissed. There is not a Deputy in the House, with the exception perhaps of Deputy Dukes who supports nuclear weapons, who would dispute that at this stage. CFCs destroy the ozone layer—

On a point of order, the reference to Deputy Dukes is out of order.

The Fine Gael Party supports the Western European Union, which supports nuclear weapons.

I ask the Deputy to leave personalities out of it when making allegations.

Deputy Dukes did not leave me out of it. The Green Party was the first to issue public warnings about CFCs and global warming, which were dismissed. Deputy Connaughton referred to BSE. When we first brought that to the attention of people we were dismissed as scaremongers and cranks, but we have been proved right. The tactic is to smear those opposed to genetically modified organisms as unscientific. Monsanto claims to be scientific and tries to portray itself as a cross between Mother Teresa and Superman, out to save the planet. This company is greedy, unethical and ruthless. I and many others have a great problem entrusting the future of food production to people like that.

The Green Party is in favour of research into the biomedical applications of genetic engineering where such research is conducted safely and ethically, however, it is important to note that the applications I have quoted concern the contained use of transgenic micro-organisms. The issue being debated concerns the engineering of micro-organisms and more complex plant cells and their subsequent release into the environment. It is this uncontained use of genetically modified plants and micro-organisms, coupled with their use in food crops to which the Green Party is opposed.

There are four problems with genetically modified crops, the first being food safety. Fears about the safety of GM plants which have been engineered with foreign genes, such as bacterial or animal genes are not confined to those who know nothing about genetic engineering but are strongly expressed by the scientific community. To be sure of safety, exhaustive and long-term studies need to be done. Is this happening? Unfortunately, safety studies are largely in the hands of TNCs who are secretive about their results or anxious to market new GM products and consequently cannot be relied upon for objectivity. Food toxicity studies should be on a par with drug toxicity surveillance but we do not have this level of safety research for GM plants. Is there a Government Minister or Member who will declare in this debate that food derived from GM plants is safe?

Why are we taking these risks, even small risks? As we know, and Dr. Patrick Wall of the Food Safety Authority recently admitted, there is no apparent advantage in plant genetic engineering for the actual consumers of food. Dr. Wall and Deputy Connaughton in his contribution referred favourably to genetic engineering in the production of human insulin. Let us remember that insulin is a protein that has been purified rigorously from a GM micro-organism which was grown in contained circumstances. In this debate we are addressing the uncontained growth of GM plants which are then released irrevocably into the environment. Let us not be fooled by all this talk of insulin.

The Green Party concludes that GM plants are not being properly and openly investigated for toxicity and hence their release into the Irish market should be immediately banned. This ban should remain indefinitely until such time as long-term research has eliminated our food safety concerns. The Minister told us he discovered EU regulations only when he went to the Department, but he did not specify them. He was backed up by Mr. Euro, Deputy Dukes, who could have informed the Minister about them. The recent case brought by Dr. Claire Watson shows that countries can set their own standards, as is the case in Austria and Luxembourg. It is regrettable that the Government did not back Austria when it wanted a moratorium on GM foods.

Will the Deputy move the Adjournment, he has three minutes remaining when the debate resumes.

I wish to make one final comment.

When the debate resumes the Deputy will have three minutes in which to make his final comment.

Just one moment—

There is a long-standing tradition in this House that when the Adjournment is called we move to the Adjournment.

I am not moving the Adjournment.

The Deputy will suffer the consequences. The House will be suspended.

That is absolutely ridiculous. When will I get the three minutes. Having asked for the debate in the first place, I find that my time is cut. I am not moving the Adjournment

The Deputy's time is not being cut, the debate will continue.

That is a matter for the Whips. There are other Deputies offering.

I am not moving the Adjournment. After my final sentence, I will move the Adjournment.

If the Deputy does not resume his seat he will be asked to leave the House. The rules of the House cannot be changed for the Deputy or any other Member.

It is most regrettable

I will suspend the sitting until next Tuesday if the Deputy does not resume his seat.

Out of respect to the other Deputies—

It is the first occasion in my time in this House that a Member refused to move the Adjournment when so requested.

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