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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 5 May 1999

Vol. 504 No. 2

Sheedy Case Representations: Statements.

I wish to reiterate at the outset, for reasons I will outline, that separate representations received by me at different times from each of the parties in the Sheedy case, and passed on by my office to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, have no relevance whatsoever to the circumstances surrounding the premature release in the Circuit Court of Philip Sheedy last November. It is important that we all keep a sense of proportion and not treat an incidental detail that is essentially immaterial as if it were a vital link in the chain.

Mr. Philip Sheedy, it will be recalled, was sentenced to be imprisoned for four years on 20 October 1997 in the Circuit Criminal Court, having been convicted of dangerous driving causing death while under the excessive influence of alcohol. On foot of representations made to another member of the Judiciary, a review was reinstated and the sentence was reviewed a year later by the judge who should have sat in the case originally, but did not. Early release was ordered by him in unusual circumstances, for reasons that have not yet been totally clarified but which have no political connection. When the release came to the notice of the family of the victim, strong representations were made and, following an official inquiry, the Chief Justice was very critical of the handling of the case by two of the judges involved, both of whom subsequently resigned.

It was brought to my attention by my private secretary on 12 April that I had made an inquiry on 9 July 1998 as to whether it would be possible for Mr. Sheedy to get day release. Although I did not immediately recall at the time what way the matter had been brought up, I have now established that the inquiry was made by the father of Mr. Sheedy, neither of whom I knew, in seeking day release for his son for one or two days a week to attend a training course on projects of benefit to the community.

Some of the comment has blurred the distinction between "release" and "day release", which are quite separate issues. I wish to point out that "day release" has no bearing on the length of the sentence to be served but merely concerns the conditions under which the sentence is served. I emphasise that no representations or inquiries were made by me or my office as to whether Philip Sheedy could be released early, which was the issue in the judges' handling of the case.

I should, however, state that Mr. Sheedy senior enclosed with his letter proposals drawn up by an instructor in FÁS to expand and modify the general programme of day release, in a way that after a certain period day release would have become equivalent to actual release on part-time community work as an alternative to prison. When instructing my private secretary, I left this proposal to one side as I probably considered it a longer-term policy matter which, perhaps, Mr. Sheedy thought could benefit his son, as well as enabling him to give something back to the community. After an extensive search I have now found the letter that Mr. Sheedy senior sent to me, which, with his permission, I will now read into the record of the House. The letter is undated, but the manuscript note given to my private secretary was dated 9 July 1998. The letter reads as follows:

Mr. Ahern,

My son Philip is presently serving a four year sentence in Shelton Abbey, Arklow, Co. Wicklow, having received the sentence on a Death by Dangerous Driving charge. To date he has served 9 months.

The reason for my making this representation to you in your capacity as Taoiseach, you may be in a position to recommend Philip for the day release work programme currently operating in our prison system for the rehabilitation of prisoners. I believe through my employment with FÁS and its involvement with community work groups that there is a lot of projects in which he could use his architectural skills in the community around the Arklow area on a day release, say one or two days per week – projects where he would be involved in designing, supervising and advising on community skills or special buildings for the elderly. Prior to his accident he had been involved as a volunteer worker in designing special buildings for the elderly in Summerhill, County Meath. His services would benefit the Arklow community and also keep his work skills fresh and active.

I enclose a copy of a proposal programme which has been designed by Tony McAvinney "an inspiring instructor" in the FÁS town centre in Tallaght. This programme, with the title Offenders Community Employment Programme, is envisaged to save up to £1 million per annum on the basis of a recent newspaper report which gives a figure of the average cost of a prisoner in our prisons at £45,000. If this programme was implemented I would gladly take leave of absence from my position in FÁS and work for the Department of Justice in the setting up, co-ordination and supervision of the pilot project. My work in the setting up of FÁS work schemes in the Tallaght area over the last nineteen years would make this task very simple and I would guarantee very successful.

The programme would differ from the present community services programme in that the offender will serve at least six months in prison and the remainder of his sentence on a particular single project as part of a team.

The reason again for writing this simple representation to you is that Philip through the day release programme currently in operation would find some gain from helping the community and paying back to society the benefit of his work skills.

If the above is not possible I will understand and I thank you for finding the time to read this request.

Yours sincerely,

Philip Sheedy Senior.

The implication that I took from the last paragraph was that if nothing could be done, no reply was needed.

My then private secretary, who served my predecessor as Taoiseach as well as myself and who acted correctly in this matter, spoke by telephone to the private secretary to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the basis of my handwritten note. The inquiry was confined to the possibility of day release as it operates at present. There was nothing covert about the query. The details were registered on computer. The instruction to my private secretary, as noted by him, was simply "Justice – What is the story?" I did not make a recommendation, as perhaps Mr. Sheedy senior would have liked me to have done, nor was the inquiry, strictly speaking, made or addressed to the Minister.

It has been confirmed to me that the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform treated it, as intended, as a routine inquiry. The Minister did not see it. Numerous inquiries are addressed to him relating to all manner of cases by Deputies from all sides of the House and by priests and social workers. Routine inquiries of all kinds are made all the time between respective ministerial private offices on behalf of Ministers or the Taoiseach.

Sometimes, as we know, people who are released early go on to commit repeat offences. However, my inquiry was not a recommendation or request for early release. It was concerned only with the possibility of day release. I was not aware of any approaches the Sheedy family made to anyone else but it is not unusual for more than one public representative, often from different parties, or others in positions of authority to be approached about the same matter. I was not aware of Mr. Joe Burke's visit to Mr. Sheedy in Shelton Abbey.

The oral reply my office subsequently received was that day release was not possible because it would be too early in the sentence and that there was a scheduled review in October 1999. There was nothing on the file that would have shown the review date had, at that time, been removed.

When a negative response was received from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, I dropped the matter and did not pursue it further. I accepted, without question, the Department's view on the matter. I did not press the case in any way, even though the Minister has powers to order the early release of convicted persons.

To sum up, my office made a routine inquiry about the possibility of day release only. It received a negative response. The matter was left there. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform stated that the answer to numerous requests for concessions of one kind or another from Mr. Sheedy was always "no", so it is nonsense to suggest that the Government showed any special sympathy to Mr. Sheedy.

The issue in the Sheedy case was whether judges in the light of their duties acted properly. The Chief Justice expressed a critical opinion on that. I, in the performance of my duties, acted with complete propriety in relation to the representations received. I or, more accurately, my office acting on my behalf did only the minimum of what any Deputy does in the circumstances – pass on the inquiry, note the response and, if at any point there is a development, pass it back to the inquirer. I would have done the same for any constituent or citizen, regardless of his or her social or political background. I applied no political pressure to get Mr. Sheedy early release.

I should also mention that I received a letter from John Ryan on 15 February last, whose wife Anne was tragically killed in the road accident. He explained the deep sense of betrayal by the legal system which he and his family felt at the early release of Mr. Sheedy. He asked me for any assistance I could give to remedy the situation. The letter was immediately acknowledged and I referred it to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, on 16 February with a request for material for a reply.

In the event, the pace of developments made it difficult to issue any early substantive reply. My private secretary contacted Mr. Ryan by phone on 12 April to apologise for the delay in replying to him and to explain that a reply would be given to him as soon as the Hamilton report was received. Following receipt of the report, I contacted Mr. Ryan by telephone on 16 April and we discussed the conclusions reached by the Chief Justice. I also replied in writing to him on the following day.

The Government treated this entire matter involving members of the Judiciary with the utmost seriousness and without fear or favour towards any of those involved. It should be overwhelmingly obvious that the Government did not seek at any stage to protect Mr. Sheedy from facing the full consequences of his offence. Appeals to shorten sentences actually served, even in the case of equally serious crimes, are regularly received from Deputies, but there was no such appeal made by me.

I and my general office have a large casework, apart from the conduct of Government which has to be my principal concern. When I came back from the Easter break on 12 April, I was reminded that I had made a representation by my private secretary who, in turn, had been alerted by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform which had confirmed that it had a note on its file to inform the Taoiseach of any developments in the case. My private secretary first heard the suggestion that there could be something on file on 1 April when we were in Hillsborough Castle, the Thursday before Easter. Nevertheless, I informed the Tánaiste about the matter in the following couple of days and the Cabinet by the end of the week.

That is not what the Taoiseach said yesterday.

The original routine inquiry had no connection with the subsequent handling of the case in the courts. I state categorically, to avoid all misunderstanding, that I made no representations, direct or indirect, to any member of the Judiciary in relation to the case and I did not ask anybody about early release. It is clear that at no stage before the handling of the case in the courts became a matter of State in February of this year did I regard the case, although it was tragic and unfortunate from everyone's point of view, as one deserving or needing any special priority from me.

It was always my intention to put the information in the public domain as soon as I had a suitable opportunity to do so. The issue was not so much one of not being asked the right question as not being able to find an obvious suitable opening in reply to supplementary questions about the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Office of the Chief State Solicitor in which I could have reasonably inserted the information, as I had firmly intended and as I had a discussed with the Tánaiste. I had a note with me for the purpose.

We have all been in situations where we intended, or even agreed, to say something but failed to do so because we could not find the right opportunity. At least 15 minutes of Taoiseach's questions last Wednesday were taken up by technical argument between Deputies and the Chair. However, as I acknowledged in my statement yesterday evening, I accept that I should, nonethe less, have found some way, however artificial, of doing what I had originally undertaken to do.

More generally, the problem with an unsolicited parliamentary statement is the implication that as a procedure it is used normally when one has done something wrong or by way of correction to the official record. There is an understandable and legitimate concern not to feed conspiracy theories or, by juxtaposing irrelevant information, to imply or signal the probability of some hidden connection. As he has already publicly stated, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform did not include the information in his statement to the Dáil for precisely those reasons. He felt it would distract attention from the main issue, to which it was not relevant, and I agreed with that judgment. No disrespect to the House is intended by me or any of my colleagues. I believe this Government has always tried to be open with the House in regard to providing all the information necessary to form a judgment in any controversy.

I fully appreciated, nevertheless, that it was necessary to put the information on the public record, and sooner rather than later. I did not get a good opening to mention the matter in the Dáil as I had hoped at Question Time last week, but equally I accept I was remiss in not finding some way of doing so. I let the matter be widely known and gave full information when requested to a journalist from the Sunday Tribune. Again, I accept this was not a satisfactory way of doing things.

This is a minority coalition Government which is working extremely well in conditions that demand unprecedented openness, transparency and accountability. I answer questions and points on the Order of Business and am accessible to the media in a way that bears favourable comparison with most of my predecessors, some of whom have been more adept at limiting their public appearances, interviews and answers to questions than I have been. My inclination is always to be helpful to those whom I encounter and that may sometimes be a failing. I work closely with the Tánaiste, consult with her and do my best to keep her informed and we all seek to act in concert.

However, there are continuous attempts in this House on more than one matter to undermine public trust in my political integrity, which is a separate issue. I am sorry for that but there is no want of honest intent on my part always to try to do the right thing. I will be ready when the time comes to put the record of an honest and conscientious Administration that did its best before the people. No matter what slant is put on it, I do not fear their verdict on me or my colleagues.

There is no easy way to say this. This debate has been forced on the House because all the contradictions have led many in the House to question whether it has a truthful Taoiseach. If the Taoiseach is not believed to be truthful by the Tánaiste, Government cannot work.

The Sheedy case reveals the existence of a circle of friends, a chain of personal relationships from Philip Sheedy through Joe Burke to the Taoiseach, Mr. Hugh O'Flaherty and Mr. Cyril Kelly, which links business, politics and the law. This circle of friends can be all too easily manipulated by people who have no sense of restraint.

The relationship between the Taoiseach and Dáil Éireann and between the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste reveals a pattern of demonstrably untruthful statements, evasions and concealments which is destructive of all trust. I remind the House of a statement made here by the Taoiseach less than a year ago, on 28 May 1998:

I have never concealed information or been economical with the truth. I ask my colleagues to accept that. It is simply not in my nature to do that, certainly not on this issue.

On that occasion the Taoiseach was speaking about the Rennicks controversy. His behaviour in that and a series of other issues has been in direct contradiction of that statement.

This latest example of the Taoiseach's deliberate concealment of information from the public, the Dáil and his Coalition partners fits into a pattern of behaviour which stretches back to before he was elected Taoiseach by this House. When the Taoiseach was considering the formation of his Government, he was aware of the serious rumours about the then Deputy Ray Burke. After he had appointed Mr. Burke as a Minister, the Taoiseach assured us he had conducted rigorous investigations into these allegations, even to the extent that he had "looked up every tree in North Dublin". It was only several months later that we discovered the truth. The inquiries, if one could call them that, carried out by the Taoiseach were so casual and superficial they were tantamount to a cover up. We can be sure the Tánaiste was not told of the true nature of the investigation because she subsequently said she agreed to Mr. Burke's appointment to Government on the basis of assurances given by the Taoiseach.

This is not the only issue relating to Mr. Burke about which the Taoiseach has been found to be hiding the true facts. In May 1998 it was disclosed in Magill that former Minister Burke had received a substantial donation from Rennicks, £10,000 of which had been passed on to Fianna Fáil. Despite knowing about this donation and that Mr. Burke had misled the Dáil, the Taoiseach did not see fit to come into the House to correct the record. Only in responding to an order of discovery by the Flood Tribunal did Fianna Fáil acknowledge receiving £10,000 from Rennicks, although it knew the donation to Mr. Burke was £30,000. The Taoiseach had at least three months in which he had countless opportunities to come clean with the Dáil and the Tánaiste on what he knew about this issue, but he chose not to do so. Having received a yellow card from the Tánaiste on that occasion, one might have expected the Taoiseach to be more careful in his behaviour in future. However, he was not.

In December 1998 the taxpayers were shocked to discover that the tax assessment of £2 million levied on the Taoiseach's mentor, Mr. Charles J. Haughey, had been reduced to zero by an Appeals Commissioner. What the Taoiseach failed to volunteer until it was specifically put to him in the Dáil was that the Appeals Commissioner in question was his brother-in-law, appointed by him when he was still Minister for Finance following the general election in 1992. To add insult to injury, the Taoiseach told the Tánaiste that the other Appeals Commissioner appointed on that occasion was nominated by the Labour Party, which turned out to be totally false. Again in this case we saw that the Taoiseach only releases potentially embarrassing information when he is forced to do so.

If we thought the Taoiseach had learned his lesson after this debacle, then we were sadly mistaken. Just one month later we saw the spectacle of his changing recollections of his contacts with Mr. Tom Gilmartin, who alleges that he gave a donation of £50,000, intended for Fianna Fáil, to the then Minister Pádraig Flynn in 1989. As the Taoiseach was questioned about his own contacts with Mr. Gilmartin, he changed his story on no fewer than five occasions in five days.

The result of this constantly changing story by the Taoiseach was that Mr. Gilmartin's account appeared to be far more credible than that of the Taoiseach. When it came to investigating the substance of Mr. Gilmartin's allegation, the Taoiseach adopted his usual investigative tactics and did practically nothing other than send a polite letter, almost begging not to be replied to, to Commissioner Flynn. Again in this case the Taoiseach failed to inform the Tánaiste of what he knew about this donation and the fact he had a number of contacts with the donor at or around the time of the donation to Mr. Flynn for Fianna Fáil. This time we were told the Progressive Democrats were only giving the Government what they called conditional support.

The next act in this drama came in February of this year when we discovered that Fianna Fáil had received a donation from a person who was an applicant for an Irish passport. In this instance we had the added element of "sources close to the Taoiseach" giving deliberately misleading information to the media and especially to a particular journalist. The truth of this affair, that £10,000 had been diverted from an account of the passport applicant to Fianna Fáil and not repaid, had to be dragged from the Taoiseach and his associates as the Tánaiste and her party again looked on in bewilderment.

I now turn to the contractions and inconsistencies in the accounts of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform of their dealings with the Sheedy case. There are many questions to be answered. On 10 February the Attorney General notified the Minister for Jus tice, Equality and Law Reform in Berlin about a query on the Sheedy case. On 11 February the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform ordered a departmental investigation into the matter.

Did the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform or the Attorney General tell the Taoiseach at this time that an inquiry had begun? If so, did the Taoiseach recall or tell either man that he had made representations in this case? Were the files in the Taoiseach's office checked at that time and, if not, why not? Were the files on Mr. Sheedy in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform checked at that time and, if not, why not? If the files were checked, did they not disclose the existence of representations from the Taoiseach on this matter? If so, were they disclosed to the Taoiseach and to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and, if not, why not?

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform insists he was not told of the note on the file regarding the Taoiseach's representations until early April. How are we to believe that? Did the note on that file state that the Taoiseach's office should be alerted if there was a development in the case? If so, was the Taoiseach's office notified that Sheedy was released in November 1998 and, if so, what action was taken on receiving that information? The House would like to know what official in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform had custody of that file. Did that official tell the private secretary to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform?

Did the Secretary General of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. Tim Dalton, know that the Taoiseach had made representations in the Sheedy case? Did the Secretary General notify the Minister of his knowledge of this matter? If the Secretary General knew, what account can he give for his failure to tell either the Minister or the Taoiseach of his knowledge of representations in a case that was so important it necessitated the Attorney General ringing the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in Berlin?

Can the House see the file on the Sheedy case? Are the Taoiseach, the Government and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform willing to make available to the House the full file with all its annotations and records of where that file has been? Is the Taoiseach willing to give the House his Department's file on this case? Is there a file in the Minister's office in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform separate from the file in the prisons section? Can we have that file too?

There is a gap of more than six weeks between when the investigation was initiated in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and when the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform claims the representation by the Taoiseach was brought to his attention, namely, in early April. What official had custody of the file during that very lengthy period? That official has to account for himself or herself if he or she failed to tell the Taoiseach of the matter, particularly if there was a note on the file requiring that the Taoiseach should be informed. That official needs to give an explanation.

On 1 April the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in his speech gave a commitment to inform the House of the circumstances in which this case came to his notice and that of his Department, and to outline the action he took in the matter. Did he actually inform the House of all he knew on 1 April? Did he know on 1 April of the Taoiseach's representation when speaking in the House? The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform stated that he became aware of the Taoiseach's representation for the first time at the beginning of April. The beginning of April is 1 April. When he spoke in the House on 1 April did he know of the Taoiseach's representation and, if so, why did he not tell the Taoiseach?

The Taoiseach said yesterday he was reminded of his representation on 12 April by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. He is now telling the House that he became aware of this on 1 April. Even between yesterday and today there is a change in the Taoiseach's recall. He said his private secretary was told about the matter in Hillsborough on 1 April. I presume his private secretary told him about it at that time. If he did, why did the Taoiseach issue a statement yesterday suggesting the first day on which he knew about it was 12 April? Has the story changed again overnight?

No. The first day I heard about it was 12 April.

So the Taoiseach is stating his private secretary did not tell him of what he was informed on 1 April. He did not think it was material even though it was a matter that was being debated in the House on 1 April; a matter that was calling for a special debate in the House. The Taoiseach said he was not informed for 12 days by his private secretary of a matter of that political importance. The Taoiseach might have answered in his speech if he had an answer.

If the Deputy read my speech he would see what I said.

I have seen what the Taoiseach said and it contradicts what he said yesterday. There is a clear contradiction.

There is no contradiction.

What version are we to believe? If the version of the officials came in the week beginning Tuesday, 6 April, was the Tánaiste denied this information? Did the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform know what his private secretary was told on 1 April in Hillsborough? If the Taoiseach's private secretary was told on 1 April in Hillsborough about the Taoiseach's representations at the same time as the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was speaking in this House and not telling the House of it, was the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform told before he spoke? Why did the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform not put that material matter before the House given that he said in the House he would be giving a full account, not only of his own work but the work of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform in the matter? Is it not the case that Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform because of the revelation that his office informed the Taoiseach's office on 1 April of the Taoiseach's representation is now being made out as having that information but not telling the House? Is it not the case that in effect the Taoiseach is making the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform out to be somebody who concealed something he knew from the House? Is that loyalty or is it just the truth?

Whatever the truth about the exact timing of the reminder to the Taoiseach it is absolutely clear that the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform thereafter contrived to keep this information hidden. I am not saying this on my own authority. We have had this confirmed by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in his interview of this week, Sunday 2 May, when he said: "may I make it perfectly clear the reason why the information was not available was because of the fact that it was not relevant to the case and I felt it would come out as appropriate". Here we have a further contradiction – this time between the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The Taoiseach said he was searching frantically for a way to make this information available and yet the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said last Sunday he wanted to make sure it was not made available because it was not relevant and he did not want to give fodder to conspiracy theorists.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform admitted he was trying to keep the information out of the public domain and the Taoiseach said he was trying to put it into the public domain. Which of these versions is true?

There is one minute remaining.

I have much more to say. I understand the Taoiseach has indicated there will not be any restraint on speeches. That is part of the agreement.

For my part I believe the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was telling the truth even though the truth in this case does him little credit. The press officer from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Noel Waters, denied to two journalists last week that any representations had been made for the day release of Philip Sheedy. Was this official denied infor mation or was he instructed to deny that representations were being made? Will Mr. Waters make a public statement of his role in this matter and what he was told?

The Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, said on the "This Week" programme, Sunday, 2 May, that the Taoiseach had mentioned the matter to various people including a journalist on the fringes of the IMI conference in Killarney on Friday, 22 April. According to media reports on Sunday, 18 April, the Taoiseach told journalist Mark O'Connell in a pub in Glasnevin that he had, according to O'Connell, received an approach from Philip Sheedy's father who had worked in a FÁS centre in his constituency, and that he had referred the matter to the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, because it was a law and order issue and related to someone in custody. The Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, had refused the release that Philip Sheedy's father had been seeking on behalf of his son. On Tuesday, 20 April, there were statements in the House on the Chief Justice's report and on the report of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform had an opportunity to tell the House about the Taoiseach's representation then but he did not do so.

Deputy Bruton's 15 minutes is up.

On a point of order. The order presented by the Taoiseach was withdrawn. Therefore, there is no restriction on the speeches. It was agreed that statements would be made to be followed by questions.

The understanding of the Chair is that statements would be confined to 15 minutes each and that question time –

The agreement was amended. At the Taoiseach's suggestion there would be no restraint on speeches.

That is what he said.

The House so agreed.

My understanding was that the House agreed to an extension of question time.

About a minute and half may be sufficient. That will ease the issue for all concerned. I wish to address one intriguing part of the relationship between Mr. Joe Burke and the Taoiseach. In the Irish Independent of 26 April Mr. Burke is quoted as saying the Taoiseach knew nothing about this case beforehand. He did not know anything about it until all this happened. It has nothing to do with the Taoiseach. Before being in a position to make such a definitive assertion to the media, Mr. Burke must have raised this matter with his friend, the Taoiseach. Did the Taoiseach not tell Mr. Burke he had made a representation about this case last year? Is his attachment for concealment and evasion so strong that he even concealed this from Mr. Joe Burke?

I ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if the findings of the Hamilton report and his Department's report on Mr. Cyril Kelly's actions in seeking to alter a court file have been referred to the Garda for further action, a decision which the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform report said should be a decision for the Government? Has the Government so decided? If not, why not? Will that court case take place.

There is one word which sums up the dilemma the House faces over the Sheedy affair. That word is "why". Why did Mr. Cyril Kelly do what he did? Why did the Taoiseach do what he did, forget what he did, and conceal what he did? Why did the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform not look for explanations from Mr. Justice Kelly before awarding him a large ex gratia pension? Why did the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform not want explanations?

The political crisis that developed over the past 24 hours which brought the Government yet again to the brink of disintegration was entirely of the Taoiseach's making. His conduct has been, at best, dishonest and evasive and, at worst, untruthful and contemptuous of the Dáil. One aspect is clear – the Taoiseach has acted in a manner unworthy of his office. He withheld from the Dáil information in his possession on a matter so significant that it has already led to the resignation of a Supreme Court judge, a High Court judge and the Dublin County Registrar.

The Taoiseach gave an undertaking to the Tánaiste that he would place the information before the Dáil and he failed to do so. He has given a series of accounts on the origins of his representations to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the Sheedy case which are inconsistent and contradictory. He was dismissive of the Dáil and contemptuous of the right of the public and Deputies to know the facts. Over the weekend, the Taoiseach gave an account of his conversation with the Tánaiste which he was subsequently forced to admit was untruthful. In a last desperate attempt to prevent his Government foundering on the rocks, he was forced to issue a humiliating and abject apology to the Tánaiste.

Following these events, the political reputation and integrity of the Taoiseach is in tatters. The cohesion and stability of the Government has yet again been stretched to breaking point. We know from our recent political history that coalition Government only works well when there is total trust between the parties involved. We have had coalition Governments in the past in which there has been trust and solidarity and which have worked well. We have had coalition Governments which were destroyed by distrust and dishonesty. On this occasion, the cracks appear to have been temporarily papered over. Few Members on either side do not believe that the damage done by this affair will prove terminal to the life of the Government.

If the matter of the Taoiseach's non-disclosure of his involvement in making representations on behalf of Mr. Philip Sheedy had been a single incident, it might not have been so damaging. However, as the Tánaiste knows, this is just the latest in a growing list of problems and crises which have arisen or been greatly intensified by the failure of the Taoiseach to be honest and open with the Tánaiste and the public. As one commentator said this morning, the Taoiseach is acting in a manner consistently like other Fianna Fáil leaders, like a man with a brick outside a jeweller's window. The Tánaiste has on more than one occasion been led up the garden path by the Taoiseach.

What about Deputy De Rossa and the Deputy?

She may on this occasion have extracted an apology from the Taoiseach, but the question, particularly for Fianna Fáil backbenchers and Deputy Roche, is whether she has got the full truth? Does the Deputy have a clue what is going on?

Generally the answer to that question is "no".

It took an act of brinkmanship to get the apology and the Tánaiste is surely running out of lives.

The core issue of the current controversy is not that the Taoiseach made representations to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on behalf of Mr. Sheedy, although there are some questionable features about the manner of the representations to which I will return later. The core issue is that the Taoiseach deliberately and calculatedly withheld this information from the Dáil after he was reminded of it by his Department, had discussed the matter with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and had given an undertaking to the Tánaiste that he would give the information.

The Taoiseach's claim that he, as a Member with at least 20 years experience in the House, did not have an adequate opportunity to place the information before the Dáil defies belief. His claim that he tried to put the information into the public domain through a chat in a public house or through a casual conversation with a financial journalist on the fringes of an IMI conference defies belief.

Where were all the spin doctors?

The Taoiseach has been a Member of the House for a long time. He knows the pro cedures of the House and that the Taoiseach in possession in the House in terms of Standing Orders and parliamentary Question Time has ample opportunity to give additional information. He had the ideal opportunity to put the information before the Dáil last week in line with the Tánaiste's request.

As my colleague Deputy Howlin outlined on "Morning Ireland" this morning, the Taoiseach had a brief conversation with him prior to Question Time in which he invited Deputy Howlin to ask questions about Chief Justice Hamilton's statement that day. If the Taoiseach wanted his own involvement ventilated, as he has protested, why did he not invite another question as he had the opportunity to do? At any stage the Taoiseach could have exercised the option available to him under Standing Order 42 of the rules of House which states: "A member of the Government who has given prior notice to the Ceann Comhairle may make a statement in the House on any matter." The Taoiseach chose not to do so.

The Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform are also at odds on whether they agreed that the information would be put into the public domain. According to the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, a decision was made not to put the information out because it would be used as fodder by conspiracy theorists. The Taoiseach claims it was agreed to put the matter into the public domain and to back this up he refers to his conversations with two journalists. Who is telling the truth, the Taoiseach or the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who I understand is in the Seanad at present?

As with the judicial aspects of the Sheedy affair, I fear that we have yet to get anything like a full account of the political involvement in this case. For example, the origins of the Taoiseach's involvement in this case are still far from clear. Last Saturday, he told the Sunday Tribune that he was not sure who made representations to him, suggesting that he may have received a letter from Mr. Sheedy senior. On Sunday, the Taoiseach told reporters he “believed” he had received a letter from Mr. Sheedy senior and by Monday he said that he had received “a nice letter” from Mr. Sheedy senior. Strangely, no trace of this letter could be found. Now, the Taoiseach has found it and has put its contents on the record of the House.

Was the letter sent to his constituency office in Drumcondra? If so, why was it referred to his private secretary and not to his constituency office in the Department of the Taoiseach which is staffed by a combination of civil servants and political appointees made by the Taoiseach? I do not suggest that a Minister or a Taoiseach would never refer such a matter to his private secretary. However, the more usual procedure is for such matters to be dealt with by the constituency office.

I am sure the Taoiseach receives dozens if not hundreds of representations about various cases each week. How many of them are dealt with by his private secretary who is a relatively high ranking civil servant in his Department? Was this case referred to his private secretary because it was regarded as being particularly important or sensitive or because of who might have first raised it with the Taoiseach? We are left to wonder, and the Taoiseach did not address that aspect of the matter in his statement. We now know the contents of the letter. To which address was it sent? Who dealt with it? No doubt we will be in a position to pursue these matters later.

If the letter was such a routine inquiry as the Taoiseach suggested, why was a note attached to the file in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the effect that the Taoiseach should be updated on any developments in the case? Why was this note not acted upon in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform? Why was the matter only drawn to the attention of the Taoiseach by his private secretary in April? Surely there was a record of the Taoiseach's representations to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform in his own Department? How did the Taoiseach's current private secretary come to know about the original telephone call given that the civil servant holding that office had moved since the matter was originally raised with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform?

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform also has questions to answer. His performance has deteriorated from incapable and ill-informed to bumbling and inept. Of all the statements made by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform during the past few weeks, the one that asks the public and Members to suspend credulity is that made on Radio Kerry yesterday when he claimed never to have even read the Sheedy file, even at the time when this was a matter of raging public and political controversy in April. There are current office holders, a few aspiring ones on that side of the House and some ex-office holders on this side of the House, and the idea that a controversy that led subsequently to the resignation or near impeachment of a Supreme Court judge, a High Court judge and a county registrar was of such indifference to the relevant Minister that he never read the file simply beggars belief. If it is true, he should be fired and gone by the end of the day and somebody should take his place. That seems incredible.

A Deputy:

I propose Deputy Roche.

Not that far, I will take that back.

The Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue must also account for the way journalists were given inaccurate answers to questions put to his Department. Two journalists put specific questions to the Department's spokesperson asking simply and directly if representations had been made to get early release for Mr. Philip Sheedy by anyone at any stage. The answer given to both journalists was a direct negative. The official concerned is a long serving and reputable civil servant. I cannot believe such an experienced official would take it on himself to answer the question without having satisfied himself that he was in possession of the appropriate information. Could the official have been misled in giving inaccurate information to these two journalists? If so, who made this decision? Regardless of who made such a decision, political responsibility for a Department issuing false information rests directly and solely with the Minister. The public and the Dáil are entitled to answers, but there is no sign we will get them from this Government. The snarling, petulant and intolerant figure we saw on our television screens on Monday night, dismissive of the Dáil and contemptuous of the public's right to know, is an image of the Taoiseach that we have not often seen before but, sadly, that is becoming a more regular feature.

Many things are not as they seem. Many of us thought we knew the basic facts about Mr. Raphael Burke's appointment to the Government in 1997, but as events unfold at the Flood Tribunal, including this morning's dramatic revelations, it is clear we did not know the half of it. Many more than we thought figure, including the Tánaiste, will have to answer publicly about their knowledge of matters relating to Mr. Burke's appointment. Today's disclosures at Dublin Castle may hold some clues as to why the Tánaiste decided to make a stand on this issue, having been so understanding of the Taoiseach's shortcomings in the life of the Government so far.

As I said at the Labour Party conference at the weekend, if politics and public life is to regain respect, it must not only be clean but be seen to be clean. Cleaning up politics not only requires an end to the unhealthy interdependence that has developed between politics and big business, it also means the public can be reassured that financial wealth, judicial contacts or political influence will result in one person receiving more privileged treatment from the courts than another. It requires that should a husband have his wife and mother of his two young children taken from him in the cruellest of circumstances, the person responsible will be dealt with firmly and fairly by the judicial system.

Has any other member of the Government made representations on behalf of Mr. Philip Sheedy? Will the Taoiseach outline any discussions, informal or otherwise, he has had with Mr. Justice O'Flaherty and Mr. Justice Cyril Kelly in the past 12 months?

Whereas there had been a number of requests on the file, there was none from any other member of the Government. The record will show that on 20 October 1997, Mr. Philip Sheedy was committed to Mountjoy Prison; on 21 October 1997 he was transferred to the training unit; in December 1997, he was refused Christmas temporary release; in January 1998, he was refused temporary release for his father's birthday; on 26 March 1998, he applied for transfer to Shelton Abbey, which was refused; on 2 April 1998 he was refused transfer to Shelton Abbey; on 8 April 1998, he was refused Easter temporary release; on 8 April 1998 he was cleared for Shelton Abbey and on 11 April 1998 he was transferred. In August 1998, he was refused temporary release for a wedding on 5 September and on 3 September he was approved accompanied temporary release with a chaplain for the funeral of his partner's mother. On 12 November 1998, he was released. There is no record of any other political figure. I presume Deputy Bruton is asking me if I had informal discussions with former Mr. Justices O'Flaherty and Kelly on this matter or generally.

On any matter relating to this case.

No. To the best of my recollection, I met the former Mr. Justice Kelly once in my life, when I attended Áras an Uachtaráin for his installation by the President. I have no recollection of meeting him on any other occasion. I met the former Mr. Justice O'Flaherty on at least three occasions in the past year that I recollect. I met him about a week before Christmas when he acted in the capacity of organiser of the function for the commemoration of the 1798 Memorial in the Supreme Court. I met him after the religious service for 1798 in St Michim's Parish Church and at the reception afterwards at which he spoke. I also met him on one other occasion during the 1998 commemorations and I do not believe I spoke to him on that occasion.

It was stated that the Taoiseach's private secretary first heard what the Taoiseach called the suggestion that there could be something on file in the form of representations from the Taoiseach about the Sheedy case on 1 April, when the Taoiseach and his private secretary were in Hillsborough Castle. Who informed his private secretary of this suggestion? Did his private secretary inform him on 1 April or at any time on 1, 2 or 3 April? Did the person who informed the Taoiseach's private secretary of this suggestion also inform the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform before he came in to speak in this House? Has the Taoiseach ascertained whether the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was aware of the representations the Taoiseach had made when he spoke in the House on 1 April? If he was, will the Taoiseach tell us why the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform did not inform the House of the matter?

My understanding of this matter is that some time during the night of 1 April 1998, when we were in Hillsborough, officials from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform mentioned to my private secretary that there was some reference on the file which they would check and come back to him on it; they gave him no details whatsoever. We then had the Easter break and neither my private secretary nor I was in until 12 April. When I returned after a number of functions on the evening of 12 April, my private secretary informed me immediately of the information he had from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Deputy Quinn asked the same questions. When my private secretary was informed by an official in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, it was at that stage we checked the register in the Department to see if we had any correspondence, and we both checked the register in my constituency office, which is separate. I checked the register in my Drumcondra office and in my general office and we found the computerised reference in the general office and found the note. When I came back that evening I was presented with my short, manuscript note, which I had obviously written from the letter.

Did the Taoiseach agree with the decision by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform not to disclose to Dáil Éireann the Taoiseach's involvement in the case? Did he give a specific instruction to the Minister in advance of him answering questions on the matter? When and where was the letter from Mr. Sheedy senior found, to whom was it addressed and what was in the handwritten note by the Taoiseach, accompanying the original letter?

I had no influence one way or the other on what the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said or did. He made a statement on the matter but I said to him when we did discuss it – I am not sure when that was – that if any reference was made to constituents or anyone else making representations, to state that I did.

Did the Taoiseach agree with his decision—

—not to put it in the speech?

As I stated today, the consideration was that my representations had no relevance to the subject matter, which was a judicial case to release the person.

So the Taoiseach did agree.

I therefore did agree but I also felt I should take an opportunity to release this information and that is why I freely talked to many people about it.

I did not know where the letter went until today, when I asked my office to contact Mr. Sheedy senior to ask if I could use the letter sent to me, which I considered to be a private letter. It was only during the bank holiday weekend that I had a chance to search my records. When I get letters I tend to write manuscript notes on the letter or on another paper and forward them.

Mr. Sheedy worked in the FÁS centre in Cabra. He said he sent the letter to St. Luke's, Drumcondra, he did not call me, meet me or seek to meet me. I reckon I wrote the notes there, which I normally would do on letters received. In answer to Deputy Quinn, I did not send the letter to my constituency office because I always separate constituency cases from non-constituency cases, I have done that at least since I became a Minister. I get letters from all over the country and from abroad. The notes I took read:

Philip Sheedy

Shelton Abbey

Four years

Two year review

One and a half

Day release

The notes of my private secretary read:

Justice – what is the story?

October 1998

Review at October 1999, not before

[Then something about] Minister, day release.

Minister?

The index number is S29992, which is a computer reference, and it is dated 9 July 1998.

In his statement the Taoiseach mentioned he was not aware of the visit by Mr. Joe Burke to Shelton Abbey but, regardless of that, had he discussed the case with Mr. Burke before he received representations from Mr. Sheedy senior? When he made the representation, such as it was, was he aware the Sheedy family may have wished to seek Executive clemency for Mr. Philip Sheedy junior? When the Taoiseach received a reply from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, why did he not feel it necessary even to send a cursory note to say that he or the Department had looked at the matter? Even if a Deputy's representation is not successful or he has nothing of significance to report, does the Taoiseach accept it is normal that a letter of some kind is sent to clarify the matter? Why was that not done in this case?

To answer the last question first, I answer most letters but I receive an enormous number of them – particularly since I became Taoiseach but also when I was a Minister – which simply put a point of view and to which I would not reply. The end of Mr. Sheedy's letter reads:

The reason again for writing this simple representation to you is that Philip, through the day release programme currently in operation, would find some gain from helping the community and paying back to society the benefit of his work skills.

If the above is not possible I will understand and I thank you for finding the time to read this request.

When it was checked out and nothing happened I did not link it to the letter and so did not reply. I would normally give them to someone to do it. This would not be that unusual. Over the weekend I looked through a bundle of letters from last week and 50 per cent would not have deserved a reply. We receive hundreds.

Mr. Joe Burke was my neighbour 25 years ago and is a good personal friend. He has recently been described as a politician, my "closest adviser", my "closest confidant", the "leader of my constituency", and the political "mastermind" behind me. Mr. Burke is a fairly good builder but he is none of the other things.

He was a good forager for a long time.

He is a good personal friend and when he was not elected in 1991 he made the wise decision to build up his building business and make some money. He is not a millionaire, as has also been alleged.

(Dublin West): House prices have doubled in four years.

Did Mr. Burke do that single handed?

(Dublin West): He did not act alone.

He lives in a reasonable house beside a Dublin Corporation senior citizen complex, but that is never mentioned. He is not politically active, he does not even attend meetings of the organisation.

He is still a democrat.

He used to organise the Taoiseach's constituency at elections.

He might help me with socials and other matters but he has not canvassed a door since 1991. When I meet him we usually talk about sport, sometimes about building and politics. To the best of my recollection he never mentioned that he was in business with Mr. Sheedy, did work for him or had anything to do with him. I have no record of that. Deputy Bruton asked whether I was involved with him or he with me and the answer is no.

Will the Taoiseach put Mr. Burke on a prison visiting committee?

I do not think that would be advisable. He was on the Port and Docks Board and I think the former Minister, Mr. Wilson, would have appointed him – it was that long ago. He is a good friend and would have helped me with social nights and other fund raising measures but he is not a political heavyweight of any kind.

Did the fact that a person appealing for Executive clemency might contact him enter the Taoiseach's mind when he heard about this case? Was that part of his thinking in not sending a reply? If it was, it would make a difference in that instance.

I do not believe it entered my mind. Two points were made in the letter. The first of these related to the day release and the second to the scheme in respect of which Mr. Sheedy provided me with documentation. I did nothing about the latter point, my inquiry related solely to the request for a day release for two days. On reflection I can state that I received the letter, identified the request for the day release and had the matter checked and dealt with.

Deputy Quinn raised a fair point in respect of senior civil servants. Whenever possible, I try to write the manuscript notes, deal with matters over the telephone and obtain quick replies. I have always operated in this manner. If I did not, I would be obliged to write letters in respect of which I would not receive replies for four to six weeks. By making telephone calls one can reduce the time lag by 80 per cent. My methods are no more sinister than that.

(Dublin West): Does the Taoiseach agree that when his private secretary wrote the note containing the question “Justice – What is the story?”, he was unwittingly making a profound statement which goes to the heart of this matter? Does the Taoiseach also agree this controversy justifies ordinary people's belief that justice is massively skewed in favour of those who move in the right circles and have access to the political establishment, while ordinary people, not to mention the poor and deprived, are left out in the cold?

If detectives find strange fingerprints on the discarded break-in tools, the window sash, ransacked drawers and presses and some abandoned swag during a burglary investigation, does the Taoiseach agree there would be a strong case against the owner of those fingerprints? Can he explain the fingerprints to be found in the case before us, namely, those of two Fianna Fáil appointed judges, a Fianna Fáil Deputy, a former Fianna Fáil Deputy, a former Fianna Fáil councillor, who is a close friend of the Taoiseach, a Fianna Fáil Senator who sometimes doubles as a psychiatrist and, to cap it all, a Fianna Fáil Taoiseach? Does the Taoiseach accept that this matter is covered in Fianna Fáil's fingerprints and that ordinary people would be fully justified in believing that it was a Fianna Fáil job? What is his interpretation of this matter? When he contemplates all the evidence and facts which have emerged, does the Taoiseach draw the conclusion that, for whatever reason, this was a Fianna Fáil job to spring Mr. Sheedy?

The fingerprints are everywhere.

Perhaps the Deputy is correct in respect of his first question about the note which contained the question "Justice – What is the story?". I am aware that people with affiliations to Fianna Fáil have been linked to this matter. That does not make anyone very happy. However, in dealing effectively with this matter, a Fianna Fáil Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform was responsible for obliging these people to leave office.

He had no choice.

An Attorney General appointed by Fianna Fáil has also been responsible for dealing with this case and the judges involved in the examination were all appointed by Fianna Fáil. There are many people in Ireland who support Fianna Fáil, some of whom dealt effectively with this matter. On one side there are people who are perhaps involved in this matter while on the other there are others who are also connected to Fianna Fáil or who, if they have no such connections, were appointed by Governments of which Fianna Fáil was a member.

(Dublin West): It is amazing that they all ended up in the same tent at virtually the same time.

I have seen reports that the Sheedy family is supposed to be connected to Fianna Fáil. However, Mr. Sheedy has stated that he has no political connections. I spoke to my party colleagues and no one is aware of him being actively associated with Fianna Fáil. I can throw no light on such matters other than to state that many people happen to be associated with Fianna Fáil.

Does the Taoiseach recall what the Tánaiste asked him to tell the House? When did she ask him to disclose his representations on this matter and place them in the public domain? Did she ask the Taoiseach to refer to this matter in the House? Of what was the Taoiseach thinking on Monday evening when he stated that the Tánaiste had not asked him to refer to this matter in the Dáil? Why did the Taoiseach believe that the Tánaiste had not asked him to do so? Will the Taoiseach elaborate on the statement he made on Monday evening that when he met the Tánaiste he would have some interesting things to put to her? To what was the Taoiseach referring in that regard?

As stated earlier, I became aware of this matter on 12 April, I informed the Tánaiste about it on 14 April and I informed my Cabinet colleagues about it on 16 April at a meeting dedicated to discussing it. I was anxious to place this matter in the public domain and when I discussed it with the Tánaiste last Tuesday she stated that I should make a statement to the House. I stated that questions were due to be taken that day in respect of the DPP and that I would take the opportunity to place it on record at that stage. However, the questions of the DPP did not arise until the following day. I intended to place it on record on the following day, Wednesday. That was the agreement I reached with the Tánaiste.

On Monday evening, on the steps of Government Buildings following a meeting with President Yasser Arafat, journalists put it to me that the Tánaiste had demanded that I make known my involvement in this matter. The Tánaiste never made demands, she sought and obtained my agreement to do so. Subsequently, however, I did not do so for the reasons outlined.

Does the Taoiseach agree that his answer on Monday evening gave the general impression that he believed that the Tánaiste was not telling the truth when she stated that she had asked him to place his involvement on record in the Dáil?

Having spoken to a number of people, I accept that that impression came across. I regret that because it was not my intention to cast reflections on the Tánaiste. On the occasion in question, I answered fairly sharply because I had earlier been shown the headline carried by the Evening Herald which stated that the Tánaiste had made demands of me. No demands were made, I had agreed to make my involvement known.

Therefore, the only difference between the Taoiseach and the Tánaiste was whether she had made a demand or a request?

No. The Tánaiste gave me her view which was that I should put on record in the House the representations I had made to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I said I would do so, but I did not. That is the truth of the matter.

I wish to inquire about the comportment of other members of the Cabinet. Most Members would be of the opinion that, even from the point of self-preservation and not to mention information to which the House is entitled, the minimum degree of political wisdom would suggest to anyone who had made representations in a matter of this sensitivity that they should inform the House of their actions at the earliest opportunity. When the Taoiseach informed his Cabinet colleagues – this goes to their political judgment – that he had made these representations, did any of them suggest that he should inform the House or were they unwilling to say something he might not want to hear? Alternatively, were they so dense that they could not see that the House should be informed about the representations?

I told my colleagues and, as stated previously by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, there were very important and crucial issues about this case. My inquiry, which hardly amounted to a representation, did not rank very high on the list. I held the view it would be better to mention it. In hindsight the first day I saw it I should have marched in here and mentioned it, but it did not seem particularly important and at that stage I had not put all the bits together. Even though I had mentioned it to many people over the days from 16 to 27 April, some people are saying I told only one, two or three journalists. That is an irrelevant fact. I mentioned it to several people. There were at least a dozen people present during the discussion I had at the IMI. This was not something I was trying to hide, but in hindsight it would have been far better if I had come in here and probably made a special statement on it. Such a statement is normally made only if one has done something wrong or if one wants to correct the record and we did not see this matter in that light.

Having thought about it, the Tánaiste and I agreed that I should put this matter on the record. Last Tuesday was the first time I answered questions on this matter in the House and that was an appropriate opportunity to mention this matter. Deputy Bruton may or may not believe me, but I hope he does believe me when I say we spent most of Question Time on a debate about the rights and wrongs of the DPP's office and the Deputy being able to ask questions in that regard. I rarely got an opportunity to intervene, but I should have mentioned it. I am not for one minute saying I should not have done so. That is what threw me on the day and I did not mention it. That was my intention. It was something I had agreed to do and when I left the House I was annoyed with myself for not having done so. That is the truth.

Will the Taoiseach agree the Ceann Comhairle has no control over the content of ministerial replies under Standing Orders and, therefore, if the Taoiseach wanted to mention this in the House, he could have included it in his original reply, even though it was not asked of him in any of the questions posed? Will he agree that his failure to do so makes it doubtful he is sincere in saying he wanted to mention it on that occasion because he could not mention it thereafter if he had not mentioned it in his original reply?

The Taoiseach said it did not seem to him at the time to be particularly important that he should mention this matter to the Dáil. Would he consider it unfair if people were to say that somebody of his political experience, who has risen to his office and can make a political judgment of that fallibility, would be considered by many not to be really up to his job?

It was not a very long period from the time this was brought to my attention on 12 April to last Tuesday when I had made a judgment to put this matter on the record.

The Taoiseach did not tell the House about it until it came out in the newspapers.

It was my intention to mention it. I had a note on my papers to mention it. The Deputy might not want to believe that and I will not argue with him about it, but that is the truth.

The Taoiseach said he was in agreement with the attitude of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform not to divulge the information to the House. When did you change your mind and decide that the information should be given to the House? Were you aware before you changed your mind of—

The Deputy should address the Chair.

Was the Taoiseach aware, before he changed his mind, that there was a freedom of information request for the file that recorded the Taoiseach's involvement in this matter? Has he met Mr. Sheedy junior or Mr. Sheedy senior? I understand that Mr. Sheedy junior was a business associate of Mr. Burke's. Did he ever, in the course of his meetings with Mr. Burke, meet Mr. Sheedy junior? Since the categorical denial to two journalists last week by the spokesperson of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. Waters, of any representations being made in relation to day release, was there contact between the Taoiseach's office or Department and the Department of Justice Equality and Law Reform to clarify that matter, or was Mr. Waters acting out of ignorance?

No, I did not meet Mr. Sheedy junior, Mr. Sheedy senior or any other member of the Sheedy family. I never had a meeting with them, nor was I aware that Joe Burke, who I know well, had any business dealings with Mr. Sheedy. I did not know that.

In relation to when I made the decision, it must have been the day the Dáil resumed, the 16th—

The 20th.

When the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, asked me if it came out that representations were made, I said he should state I had made representations, but that did not arise. When it was not raised I decided I should take an opportunity to mention it. That is why Deputy Bruton's charge, although I understand why he made it, is totally unfair. I intended to mention this matter at the first available opportunity. I make the charge to Deputy Bruton that this was not a case, as he said in May 1995, that he had the information with him in the House but he was not asked the question. That is not what I did. I intended to put this matter on the record and that is what I was endeavouring to do.

I wish to ask a question before the Taoiseach answers the question about Mr. Waters. Before Question Time last week the Taoiseach beckoned me over to ensure one question was asked. A few minutes before the Ceann Comhairle came into the House, the Taoiseach asked me specifically to ensure a question was asked about the Chief Justice's statement of an hour or so previously so that the Government response could be on the public record. Why did the Taoiseach not use that opportunity to also say he wanted to clarify another matter and it would be useful if I posed a question about his involvement? Would that not have been a clear opportunity for him to do so?

It would have been. It would have been easier if I did that and I would not be here today answering questions on this matter.

Why did the Taoiseach not do that?

I thought I would get an opportunity to mention it. As Deputy Bruton said, it would have been easy to include this in my reply, but my reply on how the Chief State Solicitor acts in terms of criminal offences was drafted to deal with that particular issue.

It was a broad-ranging debate.

It was not. The debate was on the capacity of the Chief State Solicitor and this matter would not have fitted in easily. I thought of including it in the reply, but I thought I would have been asked a supplementary, not on it but on something about which I would have been able to mention it. Then, however, we discussed the long procedural issue which was the correct thing to do.

Is the Taoiseach trying to blame the Ceann Comhairle?

I am not blaming the Ceann Comhairle.

Why did the Taoiseach not include this matter in his original reply?

The Ceann Comhairle was absolutely right in what he said on the day.

That is simply not credible, given the commitment the Taoiseach had given to the Tánaiste. The Taoiseach knew specifically what the questions were and he knew what the answers were because he was answering the questions. He knew the circumstances and the restrictions within which he had to provide this information. It is not credible that he, as the experienced politician he is, did not find a vehicle in half an hour of questions to impart this small piece of information. Given that he asked me in advance to put another matter on the public record, will the Taoiseach accept his version of events is simply not believable?

I would not. That would be the case if I had not spoken publicly to many people about the issue beforehand. That version might be true if I had not spoken to my Cabinet colleagues at least. I discussed this with everybody in my general office, in my Department and with many others. It was not a secret matter.

Hindsight is a great thing. The Deputy painted a picture of a great disagreement between the Tánaiste and me. There was no disagreement. It was agreed that I would do it.

That was not the impression listening to the Tánaiste's interviews yesterday.

But the Taoiseach did not do it. Why not? It is not credible that he did not have the opportunity. What is the real reason?

I have told the House. I did not get to it on that occasion. It was not going to be the last time in the world that I was going to have an opportunity, even when it was over, although I was annoyed that I did not have an opportunity. I believed I would have another opportunity. As soon as the first query arose, I contacted journalists myself. That was not, however, the way I wanted to come out – I wanted to do it here.

The Deputy asked about the press officer in the Department. I had no involvement, but I have a note from him in relation to the queries. Apparently, the press officer was dealing with this from home. I will go through it if the Deputy wishes.

Is there anything germane in it?

In relation to the answering of press queries if representation was made for the early release of Mr. Sheedy, the press officer indicated a vague recollection of receiving a telephone call from the journalist from the Sunday Independent on the afternoon of 24 April. He received a number of telephone calls from journalists about a number of other Departmental issues. This would not be unusual.

He cannot recall the precise nature of the queries from the journalist other than that he may have asked a question along the lines of whether there had been political representations requesting that the Minister give Mr. Sheedy temporary release. The journalist may also have asked him another question about the Sheedy case but he cannot recall if that occurred. He does not dispute that his answer to the question was along the lines of ‘no' and that the Minister had never considered the matter of giving concessions to Mr. Sheedy. He said that his understanding of the position was that a number of requests for Mr. Sheedy to be released to attend family events had been refused by Department officials without reference to the Minister. There had been no political representation in respect of these.

On the telephone conversation involving the Taoiseach's private secretary and the Minister's private secretary in 1998, the essence of it was that the Taoiseach's private secretary inquired about the position. To the best of his knowledge this amounted to a routine inquiry and was not a representation in that sense and that, as far as they were aware, no request was made on behalf of the Taoiseach for concessions for the prisoner.

I should add that they had no special knowledge of what was recorded in the prisoner's file. I understand that the civil servant was working from home and did not have access to the file.

Is the Taoiseach saying that the telephone call was not a representation and that a note saying that the Taoiseach was to be kept informed of any developments was also not a representation?

That was the view. It was an inquiry. The tag or note that the Taoiseach was to be kept informed must have been routine because I was kept informed of nothing thereafter.

What the Taoiseach says is not credible. What did the Taoiseach think he was doing in July of last year when he arranged for his private secretary to make representations? Was he suggesting, advocating or supporting the view that Mr. Sheedy should benefit from day release? Had he considered the background to the case and whether day release was appropriate? Did he exercise any judgment in the context of the representation made by him or on his behalf? What was the purpose of the representation?

In that context, what was the purpose of the representations he made on behalf of Mr. John Ryan who so tragically lost his wife? When he talked to Mr. Ryan on the telephone, around the time of the publication of the Hamilton report, did the Taoiseach inform Mr. Ryan that some nine months earlier he had made representations to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform seeking that Mr. Sheedy benefit from day release or did he conceal that from Mr. Ryan as well as concealing it from the House?

When I made an inquiry to find out the position, I was not pushing any line whatsoever. I was not doing any of the things the Deputy says. I was not advocating that anything should happen. I was asking what the position was and if we knew more than that – I was seeking information. When I got the reply I did nothing further. I have not checked with Mr. Ryan about the matters I discussed with him. We had a reasonably lengthy conversation.

The Taoiseach has not dealt with the second part of my question – what he told Mr. Ryan. I would be interested to hear that.

Is the Taoiseach saying that the nature of the inquiry he made was on a par with the nature of the inquiry Justice O'Flaherty made, for which Justice O'Flaherty was requested by the Taoiseach and his Government to resign? Will the Taoiseach clarify what he told Mr. Ryan when he telephoned him?

The Deputy, who has a legal background, knows the answer to that. He knows why Justice O'Flaherty has been criticised for his involvement, it is well documented in the report. I made an enquiry to find out the position in the case. Perhaps the Deputy does not do that in his work as a public representative but I do it that way and I have done it successfully for 22 years.

I had a private conversation with Mr. Ryan, talked about the Mr. Justice Hamilton's report, talked about his late wife, his family and some other matters.

Did the Taoiseach conceal from Mr. Ryan the fact that he made representations earlier on behalf of Mr. Sheedy? When the Taoiseach was aware that he had made such representations, and when the Cabinet had the Hamilton report before it, did it not occur to the Taoiseach that when the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform came into the House to make a statement, there was an obligation on the Taoiseach to ensure that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform clarified the nature of any representations made by the Taoiseach? It was the job of the Taoiseach to require that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform did so; it was not a matter for the Minister's discretion.

The note in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform was an inquiry. It was not considered in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to be representational matter.

Splitting hairs.

It was not considered to be anything other than a routine matter raised by a representative and dealt with that way. The Deputy can try to put a different appearance on it now but that appearance is not put on it by anyone else.

It was considered important enough by the Tánaiste for the Taoiseach to be required to tell the House about it.

I believed I should tell the House because otherwise it might have appeared that something was lying there. I do not consider it other than an inquiry.

If the Taoiseach believed he should tell the House, and if he believes the Tánaiste is now right, why did he not request that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform inform the House on the occasion when he came before it?

I have answered that question twice.

The Taoiseach said earlier that he receives an great number of letters from around the country and from outside his constituency. I am sure that is the case. He probably receives more than anyone else, given the legendary expertise of his constituency office, its scale of operation and his own status as Taoiseach. Does he refer all the letters he receives from outside his constituency to his private secretary for action?

No, I do not. I try to refer most of my non-constituants' letters to colleagues, but I try to deal with letters personally written to me if they concern matters of housing or health. I still deal with quite a number of letters from around the country myself on a regular basis.

The Taoiseach is an immensely busy man with a huge amount of reading to do in the course of his job. He read this letter among all other letters and chose to refer it to his private secretary to make an inquiry but not a representation. Is that what he is asking us to believe?

There is no point in my saying the same thing over and over. I have stated that, in my view, in the view of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in the view of the staff in my office and the staff of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform who deal with representations, this was a routine inquiry. To quote it again, "it amounted to a routine inquiry, was not a representation in the sense that as far as it was aware no request was made on behalf of the Taoiseach for concessions for the prisoner". I try to keep in touch and usually on a Saturday or Sunday night I read through letters, write manuscript notes and try to follow up these matters. I have done that for the best part of 25 years, although I do not spend as much time on it now. I no longer hold active clinics as such but I go through the correspondence whenever I can.

Will the Taoiseach accept it appears unusual that this particular letter was taken by him and referred to his private secretary, bearing in mind the way in which it came into his private office? That begs the question already posed by Deputy Joe Higgins, namely, was this just another letter, like another casual encounter with a judge in a park, or was it something else? That is the question – why this letter, why refer to the private secretary and why the concealment until such time as the freedom of information request to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform indicated it would come into the public domain? Does the Taoiseach have an explanation as to why it happened in this way?

I do not believe that anything exceptional happened in this case. The idea of my getting a letter, writing a manuscript note, it being registered on the computer or any other member of the staff making a call about it is not unusual in terms of what I do. It would happen most hours of most days. It may not always be a private secretary who deals with such matters – it could be any one of the staff – but in this case it was. It is the way I would operate. Now and again, but not in this case, I might make the call myself if the issue was not about an individual or a community. That is what I would have done. Unfortunately, I cannot spend much time dealing with those matters now but I would do it on the odd occasion.

(Mayo): In July 1998 the Taoiseach made a query or representations. It is difficult to accept it was simply out of curiosity that the Taoiseach made his approach on behalf of Philip Sheedy. On 14 October 1998 Philip Sheedy was one year in prison and he had not received a visit from the Taoiseach's friend, Mr. Joe Burke. On 14 October Mr. Joe Burke visited Philip Sheedy and, within four weeks, Mr. Sheedy was out of prison. A Supreme Court judge, a High Court judge and a county registrar are now, effectively, gone from office. In all the Taoiseach's conversations with his close friend, Mr. Joe Burke, between 14 October 1998 and today, did he at any stage discuss with him the Philip Sheedy case?

The Taoiseach already said "no" to that question.

I have already answered that question. I never discussed this case while it was not in the public domain. When my friend, Joe Burke, was besieged by the media, and called certain unmentionable names, I discussed it with him, but the subject of the Deputy's question is whether I discussed it with him during the time he visited Philip Sheedy in prison or when he did business with him. The answer is categorically no.

(Mayo): Before Mr. Joe Burke issued a statement, which was widely reported in last Sunday week's newspapers, in which he seemed to say with a certain authority that the Taoiseach knew nothing about this case and was not involved in it – that remained the story until the article in this week's Sunday newspaper – did the Taoiseach receive contact from Mr. Joe Burke in relation to his involvement in this case?

I received no contact whatsoever on the matter.

Did he consult the Taoiseach about his statement?

How did he know the Taoiseach was not involved?

I did not draft his statement. I had no part in his statement.

Did he ask the Taoiseach about it before it was issued?

No, he did not.

(Mayo): Did Mr. Joe Burke make an approach to anybody in either the Taoiseach's constituency office or his departmental office in relation to this matter to seek clarification of the Taoiseach's possible role in it?

Before he issued the statement.

Joe Burke issued that statement having had about 16 journalists at his house over the weekend. He did not do that in conjunction with me or having spoken to me.

(Mayo): Or with the Taoiseach's office?

Neither with my office nor anybody associated with me. He dealt with that because people were trying to make a link between him and me. I had made a representation because Mr. Sheedy's father had written to me. That matter had nothing whatsoever to do with Joe Burke.

(Mayo): We read in the newspapers – I am sure it was brought to the Taoiseach's attention – that Mr. Joe Burke said that the Taoiseach had no knowledge of or involvement in this case. Did the Taoiseach telephone Mr. Joe Burke to inform him this was not true?

I subsequently told him that I made representations. Mr. Burke had been asked questions about whether I knew about his visits to the prison or the business contact and in that sense he said that I had no involvement. I did not know that Joe Burke had any business relationship with Mr. Sheedy or that he visited him in prison. I knew nothing about Mr. Sheedy in relation to Joe Burke. Joe Burke was being pressed by several media people, which got him four headlines as a private individual in one weekend, to the effect that he had asked, pressed or forced me to do something. All these matters were put to him, in addition to others which were not very pleasant, in front of his wife and children. I had no involvement in any of those matters. The relationship between Mr. Burke and Mr. Sheedy, and the relationship with Mr. Sheedy senior, are entirely separate.

(Mayo): The Taoiseach is not answering my question about the newspaper headline last Sunday week where comments were attributed to Mr. Joe Burke that the Taoiseach had no knowledge of or involvement in this affair. The Taoiseach knew that version of events was incorrect because he had an involvement, although he described it as a query rather than a representation. Between the time of publication of that article and today, did the Taoiseach contact Mr. Joe Burke to tell him that his understanding of the Taoiseach's role in the affair was wrong?

Mr. Burke was well aware of my involvement.

(Mayo): Answer the question.

He was very much aware of my involvement when I told him I had made representations. He was answering questions about his involvement in the matter, and his involvement had nothing to do with me.

(Mayo): I have asked the question three or four times.

The Deputy would not ask those questions outside the House.

(Mayo): I am asking a question, not making an inference or an allegation. I am simply asking the Taoiseach to give a yes or no answer. Following Joe Burke's comments in the newspapers last Sunday week that the Taoiseach had no involvement in this matter, did the Taoiseach make contact with Mr. Joe Burke to tell him that the substance of those newspaper articles were wrong, yes or no?

When Mr. Burke issued his statement last week in which he said I had no involvement whatsoever, I told him I made representations. He knew I had made representations but he was talking about the prison visits and the business contacts, which is a separate matter. Deputy Higgins is trying to link two matters that are separate.

(Mayo): In view of the fact that the Taoiseach had direct contact with Mr. Joe Burke – he has now acknowledged that – what was the substance of the conversation he had with him?

Which conversation?

After his statement.

(Mayo): After his statement.

When Joe Burke issued his statement last week my conversation with him was to ask him why he did it. He informed me that he had 14 or 15 journalists at his house and, through his legal advisers, he issued a statement. He was being asked whether I had some involvement through him in the Sheedy case and he said no. That is the answer. I had no involvement whatsoever through him in the Sheedy case.

There are a number of Deputies offering. I want to call Deputy Shortall.

(Mayo): This is important.

All the questions are important, Deputy, but this is the fourth or fifth supplementary.

(Mayo): When and where did the meeting take place?

The Deputy is trying to—

(Mayo): I am only asking.

He is not just asking the question. I meet Joe Burke relatively regularly. It was not a question of getting on and making inquiries. He issued a statement from his position, of which I had no knowledge. I read the full text in The Irish Times. The next time I met him I asked him why, and he told me about the people at his house. I do not know when he knew of my representation, but it had nothing to do with his involvement. He was being questioned about whether he went to Mr. Sheedy, did I know, did he go to the prison to influence some court case, what did he say to Mr. Sheedy and did he tell me what Mr. Sheedy said. The questions were all related to that. It had nothing to do with my representation or with Mr. Sheedy senior sending me a letter nine or ten months previously.

I have four brief questions, the first of which relates to Joe Burke's role in this matter. Mr. Burke is a senior member of the Taoiseach's constituency organisation and could accurately be described as a member of his "kitchen cabinet". The Taoiseach meets him on a regular basis.

As well as working for South Dublin County Council, Mr. Sheedy also did a considerable amount of work with Mr. Burke, some of which involved major refurbishments of a number of pubs, including a number on the north side of Dublin which the Taoiseach frequents.

Is this a question or a statement?

We are dredging now.

The Deputy should ask a question.

Does the Taoiseach agree it is difficult for the House to believe he would not have been aware of the architects on the major building works in pubs he visits on a weekly basis? It is fair to assume he should know the architect, given his close association with the builder carrying out that work.

When was the last time the Deputy was in a pub?

I am not in one as often as the Taoiseach. Did he meet the business associate of his close friend, Mr. Joe Burke? I am thinking of The Beaumont House in particular.

I also wish to ask about the role of Mr. Sheedy senior. We all know the Taoiseach has his finger on the pulse in Dublin Central. I find it difficult to understand how he would not know of Mr. Sheedy senior who had a management position in the FÁS office in Cabra, which is in the Taoiseach's constituency. Surely he came across Mr. Sheedy.

I also wish to ask about the representation made by Mr. Ryan to the Taoiseach. The Taoiseach said Mr. Ryan wrote to him on 15 February. Was that the first contact he had from Mr. Ryan? It is reported in the media that the Taoiseach mentioned his involvement in this case to a number of journalists. Will he provide the names of the journalists?

Oh my God.

The Deputy should ask the journalists.

Because Members are coming in during the debate, I have been asked a number of questions which I answered earlier. Joe Burke is not a member of my "kitchen cabinet". He is not a member of the Comhairle Dáil Ceantar, of the cumanns—

He is a member of the Taoiseach's personal organisation.

—or of my group of close friends who work on my campaigns. He did not work in the 1992 or 1997 campaigns. For many years I have shared two local pubs with the Deputy. One of the buildings was built in 1900 and has not been renovated much since then. I do not know who the architect was.

I am not talking about Kennedys.

Are we talking about Fagans – are we down to talking about pubs? I do not know who the architect was, but I do not think Mr. Sheedy was the architect for The Beaumont House. I can check it, but I do not think he was. If he was, I will tell the Deputy.

I have no knowledge of Mr. Sheedy junior. I do not think I ever met him. I could have met Mr. Sheedy senior in the Cabra FÁS centre as Minister for Labour, but I do not know the man.

The Taoiseach is the local TD in the constituency?

I do not know him. Unfortunately, I do not know every employee of every organisation in my constituency. I wish I did. My first contact from Mr. Ryan was on 15 February. I stated earlier that I mentioned this matter to a number of journalists and many other people. I have no intention of naming the journalists.

May I ask the Taoiseach a question which experience indicates ought always be asked on occasions such as this? Is there anything the House ought to know but which has not been disclosed because a specific enough question has not been asked?

The Deputy should check 25 May 1995.

As I said earlier, that is not how I operate. I have nothing to add. I received representations from both sides of this case. I received representations from the Ryan family, with which I dealt. I also received representations from Mr. Sheedy senior, which I could be accused of not dealing with very well. I checked into it and did not get back to him. His last paragraph explains that. That is the sum total of my involvement.

I did not make representations to any member of the Judiciary. I did not talk, or send a note, to any member of the Judiciary. I spoke to no court clerks. As far as I am concerned, I did nothing to help Philip Sheedy, other than the one inquiry which I did not follow up very well.

Lest we leave anything out which might elicit information or appear at some future point, does the Taoiseach know, or has he ever known, any member of the Anderson family – father, mother or Ken Anderson? If the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, was informed on the night of 10 February of serious matters concerning a court case which ultimately led to the resignation of two judges and a court registrar, when was the Taoiseach told of these serious matters? Was it on the night of 10 or 11 February?

From the time at which he knew of this case, did the Taoiseach request to see the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform file? Did he ask the Minister if the file had been fully examined to ensure all information would be available to the Minister and to the Taoiseach about any matter in the file which might be of concern?

Does the Taoiseach know how it was discovered that a letter from Edward O'Connor, John Ryan's solicitor, was received by the Department on 4-5 February? I have a copy of the letter which is stamped 4 February. A note on it reads, "1788 R Gogan Prisons". From my recollection that means the letter went to prisons on 4 February or thereabouts. It does not give a date but it must have been 4 or 5 February.

To find that letter to allow the Minister to mention it on 1 April, the Department file had to be trawled. Is the Taoiseach satisfied knowledge of the note of his representation was not discovered in the Department until 1 April when his private secretary was told of it casually in Hillsborough by an official from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform? Was the note relating to the Taoiseach's inquiry found in the Sheedy prison file or in the Minister's private office file? On what date was it found – should it not have been early after 11 February when the Minister asked the Department's Secretary General to carry out an investigation? How was that investigation carried out?

Why, in July 1998, did the prison file still record that the review date of October 1999 was still existent? Why did the prison file not show that date had been removed six months earlier, given it is the Department's responsibility to administer the sentences handed down by the courts? The information passed to the Taoiseach's office was that Mr. Sheedy's release, day release or attendance at courses could not be granted because, as the Taoiseach said, there was still a review date on the case.

Who found the handwritten note on the file recording the telephone call between the Taoiseach's private secretaries and when? The Taoiseach said the letter from Mr. Sheedy senior was sent to St. Luke's. Is a separate file kept in St. Luke's of all correspondence sent to and representations made through that office, so that when someone returns to that office to find out if their query or representation has been answered, the secretary working there has a mirror note or letter of those taken by the Taoiseach to his office? Is this the case and has the Taoiseach checked his files in St. Luke's to see whether this file was available to him there and could he have known about it sooner?

I cannot answer the detailed questions on the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I do not have access to individual files. I did not seek the file or ever look at it. I do not think I have ever seen a file of any kind from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. It is not my practice to look for files, as I told Deputy Bruton in the House some time ago. I do not know Mr. Ken Anderson or any of the Andersons. If I ever met any of them, it is unknown to me. I have no knowledge of them whatsoever.

If I was not informed on 10 February, I was certainly informed the following day. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Attorney General informed me. I made no checks at that stage because I did not relate the case to any representations I may have received. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has told me that the note recorded from me was on the prisons file. That was mentioned to my private secretary for the first time on 1 April and proceeded with following that.

I do not have a mirror note. While I have a computer system in St. Luke's, I keep a great deal of correspondence and papers. I do not have a filing system. I keep papers relating to matters which are held over or held back. While my constituency cases regarding housing, planning, parks, community matters and individual cases would be on the computer system, it is not always up to date and does not provide a mirror image of correspondence.

When Members made statements on this matter on 1 April, the Tánaiste told me she had spoken to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform four times and was convinced there was no political interference in this matter. Did the Taoiseach make similar inquiries to ensure there was no political interference in the matter? Would those inquiries have at least required him or the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to examine the file? Had that been done, would the Taoiseach not have been aware before 1 April that direct representations were made by him?

The issue is whether there was political interference with the Judiciary. The answer is ‘no'. Everything else amounts to a sideshow.

Why did the Taoiseach not tell us from the beginning? Was it necessary to hide it?

I asked a specific question. I said the Tánaiste volunteered the information that she had sought assurances that there was no political interference. I took her at her word. If there was a reference on the file to a representation, I would have expected the Tánaiste to tell me – I know she would have – there was a representation, but that it was absolutely acceptable and there was no impropriety in it. It would have been adverted to. It was not. Did the Taoiseach make similar inquiries?

First, is it not incredible that the Taoiseach was not aware of his involvement before 1 April? Second, would the Taoiseach not have found it appropriate, as soon as he became aware of it, to explain that it was an absolutely proper and appropriate representation, rather than seeking to conceal it with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, as the Taoiseach admitted?

I did not try to conceal it.

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said the Taoiseach did.

If I did I would not have spoken so openly.

The Taoiseach did not volunteer the information.

I told the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, if he received a query, to say I had made representations. The issue is that this man was released early because of matters which took place in the courts. The only question the Tánaiste, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Attorney General, the High Court judge or any of the other judges would have asked was whether there was political interference within or with the Judiciary. The answer to that is ‘no'.

That is not today's question. Why did the Taoiseach not reveal his representations to this House, as the Tánaiste felt was appropriate?

I have been answering that for two hours.

Has the Government acted on the recommendation made by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform committee investigating the handling of the Sheedy case, which is to the effect that Mr. Justice Cyril Kelly's retrospective attempt to alter the file on the Sheedy case subsequent to his hearing of that case and his decision to release Mr. Sheedy is a matter which should be referred to the prosecuting authorities? If not, why not? Did the Taoiseach take part in discussions with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform with a view to approving the pension arrangements for Mr. Justice Kelly? Why did the Taoiseach not ask Mr. Justice Kelly, as a condition of those arrangements being put in place, to explain why he took the strange course of action he took in the Sheedy case? If the Taoiseach did not ask that Mr. Justice Kelly should provide those explanations, can he justify why he and the Minister for Justice Equality and Law Reform failed to do so?

The Taoiseach has asked the House to believe that he and the Tánaiste agreed he would mention this matter in the Dáil. Will the Taoiseach therefore explain what he meant when he said:

I find it amusing, sad and hilarious all at once that the idea of me jumping up in the Dáil and saying "Listen now I want to say something about my involvement in the Sheedy case and the Mrs. Ryan case" that the Dáil would have said ‘Oh thanks very much, that is great now, we will all go out for the weekend'. If I had taken such an action, the Dáil would have gone into its usual ballistic self and looked for a suspension of Standing Orders. There would have been ructions if I attempted to raise the matter in the House.

That is what the Taoiseach said on Monday night. How does the Taoiseach reconcile that statement with what he is saying now? He clearly indicated his contempt for raising the matter in the Dáil and said it would have been amusing and hilarious to do so. How can he reconcile that with what he is saying now, which is that he had agreed with the Tánaiste that he would bring it up in the Dáil? Is the Taoiseach telling us he agreed with the Tánaiste that he would do something amusing and hilarious?

The matters in relation to the examination of the file by the Attorney General are ongoing. The Government will make its decisions on the advice of the Attorney General on what should happen in those cases.

In regard to the second matter, I was talking the other night about what would have happened if I had raised it. Deputy Bruton said in an interview over the weekend that if there was nothing in it and it was just a simple matter, I should have said it in the Dáil, which everyone would have accepted and gone home happy. I was only making the point that it would not have been so simple and that the Dáil would have paid a fair amount of attention to it – perhaps rightly so. I was not saying I was not prepared to give answers in the Dáil.

What other impression was the Taoiseach trying to give?

If the Deputy had listened to me the other night when I was talking to the journalists—

I heard it all.

Unfortunately, people just hear bits, which creates problems. One may talk for 40 minutes but they hear only 20 seconds of it, on which they base their conclusions. It was my—

Is it the news editors' fault?

I am not blaming the news editors.

One of the newspapers said the Taoiseach said he would not come into the Dáil.

The Taoiseach must be allowed to answer without interruption.

I will repeat, for about the 100th time in this session of two hours and 25 minutes, which is a new record for this House and is without precedent under standing orders—

It is not.

The Deputy should consider the serious matters which were put through this House in half an hour. I was looking at them today.

The Taoiseach, without interruption.

It was my intention to deal with this matter in the Dáil, not because I thought it was any great deal or that there had been judicial interference in the political system, but because this could be misinterpreted further down the road. I openly said it everywhere. I told the Minister to say I had said it if he were asked anything in the House. I intended taking the opportunity to deal with it last Tuesday; when it was postponed to Wednesday, I intended doing it then. That is the position and, irrespective of whether people want to believe it, it will remain the position until the day I die.

If the Taoiseach intended to deal with this matter in the Dáil last Tuesday, why did he not include it in his reply to the original question? Why did he not include it in his written circulated reply, where no restraint could be placed on him by the Ceann Comhairle in dealing with the matter? Why, if that was his intention, did he not put it into his original reply?

I have answered that.

The Taoiseach has not.

This is becoming repetitive. I call Deputy Gilmore.

(Interruptions.)

When did the Taoiseach first become aware the former chairman of the Dublin county board of the GAA was taking legal action against Mr. Joe Burke, in respect of construction work on a pub in Dalkey, County Dublin? When did he first become aware the architect for that construction was Mr. Philip Sheedy junior, who was likely to be a witness in the case?

When I read it in the newspaper recently.

Has the Taoiseach made inquiries as to why the State's representative from the Chief State Solicitor's office was absent when the Sheedy case was called?

I answered this last week in the House. I understand the individual may have been on a telephone call, but that is not certain. Another official, who I think is called Mr. Browne, was in the court at the time.

When the Taoiseach telephoned Mr. John Ryan, did he mention to him that he had made representations on the Sheedy case? What reason did the Tánaiste give for not attending the Cabinet meeting yesterday? Why did the Taoiseach feel it necessary to misrepresent the Tánaiste's position? Whatever about putting it on the record of the Dáil, is my understanding correct that until yesterday the Taoiseach's position was that he was trying to put it into the public domain? Can he explain to the House why a Taoiseach, especially himself, would have such difficulty in finding a way to put something into the public domain?

I have already said that I had a conversation with John Ryan and I have said, generally, what I discussed with him. I do not think it is appropriate for me to describe my conversation with him. I discussed the Hamilton report with him. I also discussed some other matters with him, but not at great length and they were not exciting matters. I sympathised with him because all this has been a great tragedy for him. This is a tragedy for many families, but he is first on that list because he has lost his wife and his children have lost their mother. That must be remembered in all of this. That was the main part of the conversation.

It was not a question of me trying to put it in the public domain for publication, but I was not hiding the fact. I was talking openly about it and I was happy to answer questions which were asked to either the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform or myself. The issue the other night was only a case of me responding to the word "demand" because there were no demands in it – it was an agreement. That was the point I responded to the other night. I had an agreement with the Tánaiste that I would do it but I did not do it. That was the issue that created some difficulties.

What was the other question the Deputy asked me?

What reason did the Tánaiste give for absenting herself from Cabinet?

We deferred the meeting from yesterday to this morning. We cleared the agenda this morning.

In regard to the conversation in Hillsborough, where officials of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform apparently told the Taoiseach's private secretary of the Taoiseach's representations in this case – a matter of great public controversy – has the Taoiseach asked his private secretary if he considers he behaved appropriately in, as the Taoiseach alleges, failing to tell him about this until 12 April, some 12 days later?

Has the Taoiseach ascertained whether the officials who told the private secretary to the Taoiseach on 1 April in Hillsborough about the Taoiseach's representations also told their own Minister about the matter on the same day? Has the Taoiseach ascertained whether the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform knew of the Taoiseach's representations when he spoke in the House on 1 April? When exactly did the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform first know of the Taoiseach's representations?

Is the Taoiseach satisfied with the current procedures in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform – which is a Department dealing with very sensitive security matters – for bringing politically sensitive matters to the notice of Ministers, given that this matter had been on file in the Department since the date of the initiation of the first call by the Attorney General to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform in Berlin? Is the Taoiseach satisfied with the way in which the Minister is administering his Department, in view of the fact that, if the Minister is to be believed, he did not know about this politically sensitive matter for approximately six weeks after it became so politically sensitive that it justified a call from the Attorney General to the Minister when he was in Berlin?

My previous and current private secretaries have given me excellent service at all times and have acted appropriately and properly.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

I reiterate that. There was a mention on 1 April that there were some matters on the file. It was mentioned in Hillsborough when we were involved in the Northern Ireland talks, but it was not clarified until 12 April. It might have been mentioned to the Minister later during Easter week but it was not until I was back on 12 April that I was officially informed by my private secretary, who acted diligently, promptly and properly. It was a written—

Was it mentioned to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and, if so, when?

I think it was mentioned to him that there was something on the file on that occasion as well. However, it was Easter week—

So he knew on 1 April?

No, he did not. Nobody knew on 1 April.

It was mentioned to him but he did not know.

Reference was made that there were matters on the file. They were not specified or clarified. They were not put in a final form. It was Easter week—

That means it was 5 April.

—before that was done and it was sent to my office on 12 April. That is quite clear so the Deputy need not look confused.

That is unbelievable.

How long does it take the Minister to absorb these matters?

There were no written representations, there was only a note on the file. People throughout the country will believe that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who was dealing with a difficult judicial situation, acted with great fairness and efficiency. Great credit is due to him for that.

He did not read the file.

With regard to records in the files, every Department probably has problems getting quick responses and notices. When something comes up and is examined thoroughly, extra matters come to light. That is not new, it has always been the case. If any improvement in the procedures is necessary, the Minister will carry that out with his staff.

The Taoiseach said he was not personally acquainted with Mr. Sheedy senior, who is a staff member of FÁS. Is it not true that the Taoiseach is acquainted with FÁS staff members, many of whom are his supporters? Has he ever discussed this matter with them? With whom, outside Government circles, has the Taoiseach discussed this matter?

It is true that I know people other than people in politics and it is true that some of them work in FÁS.

Some of them are supporters of the Taoiseach.

(Interruptions).

Some of them are supporters of other politicians. I have no particular relationship with them. I know many people in FÁS.

Has the Taoiseach discussed this matter with them?

I prefer the Taoiseach not to answer questions that come by way of interruptions.

It is a fair question. Friends of mine who work in FÁS have been contacted by journalists and management of FÁS and asked if they had dealings with me with regard to the Sheedy matter, and the answer has been negative.

I wish to refer to the Taoiseach's statement in which he referred to the instruction to his private secretary. He said that the instruction to his private secretary as noted by him was "Justice – What is the story?" In response to an earlier question the Taoiseach referred to an addendum on the memo which, to the best of my recollection, referred to a ministerial pardon or ministerial clemency. Perhaps the Taoiseach would read that again into the record. Will he confirm whether this was part of his initial inquiry or instruction or whether it was written in response to the reply from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform? How did that come to be written on the memo? The Taoiseach also said he had no further involvement in the matter. Will he confirm that nobody in his office had an involvement in this matter from the date on which the memo was discussed with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform officials until now?

I had no involvement whatsoever in the matter. The note is not in my handwriting but in that of my private secretary. I will describe it. It says: "– Justice – What is the story?—

Is it in morse code?

—Review at October 1999, not before." Then it says: "Minister, for day release." It then says: "No temporary, October 1997, April 1997." There is nothing further.

Was that the Taoiseach's instruction or was it the reply?

It was the reply. The reply was that there would be a review in October 1999—

Which was wrong.

—which was wrong. Then there was the note on day release. That was presumably written when my private secretary was talking to the private secretary in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Will the Taoiseach confirm that once the memo was received and written down, that concluded the activities on the part of all the people in his office in this matter?

I can confirm that.

The Taoiseach said that he did not have a discussion with Mr. Joe Burke prior to Mr. Burke issuing the statement to the effect that the Taoiseach had no involvement in this matter. Since the Taoiseach told the House on 27 January last that Joe Burke had confirmed to him that he met Tom Gilmartin, is it credible that Mr. Burke would issue a statement about another serious matter without first checking its veracity with the Taoiseach?

The information he gave me about Mr. Gilmartin proved to be absolutely correct, and the subsequent examination by Dublin Corporation and Dublin County Council and the other inquiries into this matter demonstrate that. In this case, Mr. Burke was protecting his own position. He was under considerable pressure from people trying to establish a link. On foot of his legal advice, he issued a statement to say he had no part whatsoever in this matter.

Mr. Burke does not work for me. From his point of view he was unfortunate to be a neighbour of mine 25 years ago and he is still my friend—

He is more than an ex-neighbour.

He is a very good friend but he is not a political associate. He was a councillor eight years ago.

Since an important issue such as the Taoiseach's relationship with Mr. Gilmartin was previously the subject of a statement by Mr. Burke, is it credible that another sensitive issue would not have been weighed carefully by Mr. Burke before he issued a statement? Is it credible that he would have issued such a clear statement without first checking its contents with the Taoiseach?

That is what he did, regardless of whether it is credible. He did it on the basis of his legal advice. That was a matter for him. He had no involvement with this or anything else. Deputy Shortall is upset that I am saying he is not a political adviser. He is a good close friend but he is not a political adviser.

(Dublin West): The Taoiseach said that the main question is whether judges were influenced by a political representation and that the answer is no. Did the Taoiseach call in the long list of Fianna Fáil members whom he knows to be involved in this case and did he ask them whether they knew of the facts leading to the release of Mr. Sheedy? Will the Taoiseach agree that the incompetence with which he has dealt more recently with this case and which has caused it to continue to fester politically has resulted in a serious diversion from the real issues the Dáil should be discussing?

(Interruptions).

(Dublin West): We have concluded this debate by discussing the Taoiseach's local roots.

There are other important issues. It has always been my position to answer these matters whenever they arise. No matter what way I raised this issue – my intention was to raise it in a different way – it would still have been made into a big issue in the Dáil. All I did in this case was to receive representations, make inquiries and deal with them. Whether I told the Dáil had no bearing on it. My intention was to tell the Dáil on the first occasion I answered questions last week.

That is hilarious.

If it had not appeared in a Sunday newspaper last week, I would have been back in the Dáil this week to inform it.

That is nonsense.

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