Vol. 504 No. 7
25 Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for Education and Science if his attention has been drawn to the fact that the files of the Kennedy committee into industrial and reformatory schools are reported as missing; the efforts, if any, he has made to locate and recover the files; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12837/99]
I am fully aware of the reports to which the Deputy refers. As I indicated to the House on Thursday last, my Department is making every effort to establish whether additional files or records relating to the work of the Kennedy Committee still exist within my Department. In the event of any such files or records being located, I intend that their content will be placed in the public domain to the maximum extent possible.
The House will appreciate that prior to the introduction of the National Archives Act, 1986, and during the period now under discussion, practices relating to keeping files and records were not as well developed as they are today. My Department retains approximately 46,000 files and records relating to the old industrial and reformatory schools. These files and records go back to the last century and their content varies very significantly in terms of detail. Some files relate to individual children. Others deal with a range of policy issues relating to the general operation of the facilities, including issues relating to funding, staffing and inspection.
A number of files relate specifically to the establishment of the Kennedy committee, the outcome of the committee's work and the action taken to give effect to the committee's recommendations. Further files have been identified which deal with matters relating to child care and which would have been relevant to the work of the Kennedy committee.
In recent years professional archivists have compiled a database of the files on behalf of the Department. The files in question are made available for inspection by researchers with the exception of files which involve personal details and names of children and files which relate to matters which are the subject of current Garda investigations.
Also, as I advised the House on Thursday last, I have arranged for the appointment of a professional researcher to draw from the Department's archives all files which would assist the commission which is now being established to inquire into childhood abuse, to assess the material on those files and to advise me on their contents. As part of this process, the task of identifying all files and materials which relate to the work of the Kennedy committee and are still in existence, will continue.
I also advised the House that I met the surviving members of the Kennedy committee to discuss its work. While the members of the committee believe the working files of the committee did not contain great detail relating to instances of abuse they will, if found, be made available in the same way as other files relating to these issues have been. Full access and assistance was given by my Department to RTE researchers in the preparation of the "States of Fear" programme and I would be glad to arrange similar access for Deputies if they so wish.
Additional information.The policy of the Kennedy committee on visiting the schools was described to me as being based on familiarisation rather than inspection. The members collectively visited the bigger institutions and visited others in small groups. While they wrote reports on institutions, the reports did not comprise detailed observations, rather they included general impressions. The committee identified the use of corporal punishment in Daingean reformatory school. District Justice Kennedy wrote to the Department on this and other matters. The use of corporal punishment in Daingean was also the subject of correspondence between the then Secretary of the Department of Justice and the Department of Education, the details of which I placed on the record of the House on Thursday, 13 May last.
Will the Minister confirm that the Department of Education and Science provided a secretary to the committee who was assisted by a person who also functioned as secretary to the subcommittees? Does he agree it would be extraordinary if files were not kept on those whom the committee met? Does he also agree that it would be in the public interest to know the matters on which files were prepared and are now missing? For example, are files available that support appendix E of the Kennedy report – the survey conducted by the Department? Is all the data available on the psychological survey conducted by Dr. O'Doherty, University College, Dublin?
On the latter two points, the data is not available. The members of the Kennedy committee did not inspect the facilities, rather they formed general impressions upon which they compiled reports, which are not available either. It may be the case that other committees and bodies did work in the past and whose files are not available but I am retaining an open mind until I receive further details from the researcher appointed. Much of the material is not on file.
Will the Minister confirm that the report commissioned from Dr. O'Doherty, Professor of Logic and Psychology, University College, Dublin is not available?
I have not seen a copy and one has not been made available to me. The files relating to the establishment and outcome of the deliberations of the committee are available. I referred last week to a particular incident at Daingean. The file has been made available.
I am anxious to establish the facts. Appendix E and appendix F to the report published in 1970 contain summary tables based on raw data which is missing. The Minister said last week that a file dealing with Daingean had been discovered. If there was a report on Daingean, there were reports on other institutions. Does this mean that the files on similar institutions are missing?
Yes, but the Deputy is overstating the case. Members of the Kennedy committee made it clear that the Daingean episode was the exception rather than the rule. The material submitted on all the other schools is not on file.
Has the Minister looked at the files on the correspondence from which he quoted last week, on a secretary to secretary basis, to ascertain if they contain any reference to worries that the persons from the Department of Education and Science appointed to the committee may have had? Was there other correspondence between the secretaries?
There may be other correspondence but it has not been traced.
