Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 26 May 1999

Vol. 505 No. 4

Order of Business

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 3, Declaration under Article 29.7 of the Constitution (Extension of Time) Bill, 1999 – Order for Second Stage and Second and Subsequent Stages; No. 30, the Qualifications (Education and Training) Bill, 1999, 1999 [Seanad] – Second Stage (Resumed); and No. 51, the Statute of Limitations (Amendment) Bill, 1998 – Second Stage.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Second and Subsequent Stages of No. 3 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 1.30 p.m. today by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments to the Bill, include only those set down or accepted by the Taoiseach; the Order of 30 June 1998 is discharged and the Second Stage of No. 51 shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: the opening speech of the main spokesperson for the Labour Party, of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokesperson for the Fine Gael Party, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; Members may share time; and the main spokesperson for the Labour Party shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 15 minutes.

Private Members' business shall be No. 72, Motion re. Disability (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.

Mr. J. Bruton

On a point of order, will you study the reasons given by the Taoiseach yesterday for not giving answers to political matters here in the Dáil on the grounds that these were for a tribunal, and the implication that the tribunal, in a political matter, is somehow superior to the Dáil which set it up, and that Ministers are now adopting a new doctrine of ministerial accountability which is not to account to the Dáil?

Mr. M. Smith

That is outrageous. It illustrates irresponsibility.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will you consider, Sir, the implications of that for this House which you head and which you chair.

Dr. Woods

That is grossly irresponsible.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will you consider convening a meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges to consider this issue?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair will have to have some notice of that.

Mr. J. Bruton

Thank you. I am happy with that.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal for dealing with No. 3 agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 51 agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Bruton

On the order of business, has the Taoiseach considered the implications of the firemen's strike and that the Army has indicated an inability to deal adequately with the implications of that? Will any emergency provisions, involving legislation or otherwise, be made to deal with the risk to the lives of people after 3 June when this strike is due to commence?

The Taoiseach

Contingency arrangements have been put in place by the relevant Departments. That was done in recent weeks. This strike and dispute is totally unnecessary. The Labour Court has made a recommendation on the matter. The 1968 parity between the Garda and firemen is not at issue. The productivity issues that have been listed are for normal discussion. They appear to me to be matters that should be agreed locally. It is a matter of whether they are existing or new productivity issues and that does not justify a national strike. I respectfully suggest that the parties negotiate; the labour relations mechanisms of the State are available to them. The core issues on which people voted for strike action are not at issue, so it is rather peculiar that we could have a national strike when the issues have been addressed and should be resolved.

Mr. J. Bruton

I accept the Taoiseach is dealing with the issues in the dispute but if the strike goes ahead, regardless of its merits, are there adequate contingency arrangements in place?

The Taoiseach

Yes, the Defence Forces and the agencies have made the arrangements.

Mr. Quinn

Does the Government intend issuing a formal statement on the reason it is reported in today's media that there was not an Irish ministerial presence at the Council of Social Affairs Ministers when the issue of hospital doctors was debated and decided upon by the Ministers?

An Ceann Comhairle

Strictly speaking, that is not a matter for the Order of Business.

Mr. Quinn

In fairness, there may be a good explanation and, if so, the House would like to hear it.

The Taoiseach

As I understand it, the Tánaiste was in Brussels for a meeting but was ill.

Dr. Woods

Deputy Quinn can become ill too. It happens to us all.

Mr. Quinn

I just wanted the explanation put on the record.

Mr. Hayes

The Taoiseach is no doubt aware that already this year, 150 people have lost their lives on our roads. Last year, the Government promised legislation—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy must ask a question.

Mr. Hayes

—to introduce a penalty points system for major traffic violations. When will that legislation be published as it was promised last year for this year?

The Taoiseach

Legislation is being prepared in the Department to provide for changes in the road traffic legislation to implement the road traffic and safety strategy, the first time that was put forward by a Government. Work is going on in the Department but I am not sure what stage it is at.

Mr. Sargent

I hope the Taoiseach will visit some of the fire stations to see whether the strike is justified on the basis of what has failed to be worked out. Many stations are in a bad condition.

An Ceann Comhairle

Does the Deputy have a question?

Mr. Sargent

A promise was given 18 months ago that the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill would be published in late 1998. The Government is in court on this matter and it is not giving a good example when it does not consider going to court as—

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy cannot continue with a statement. If he has a question he should put it.

Mr. Sargent

When will the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill be published? Given that the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Cowen, will meet the National Association for the Mentally Handicapped of Ireland at 11 a.m., will the Taoiseach give the House some information on that Bill which was at an advanced stage in November 1997? Will the Dáil be given news of the Bill before a press conference hears about it? When will the Bill be published?

The Taoiseach

The Wildlife (Amendment) Bill and the Mental Health Bill are due this session.

Mr. Kenny

There has been some movement on legislation in the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands. Will the Taoiseach restore the national parks and historic properties Bill to the legislative agenda? The Bill was removed from the list because of other priorities. Instead of asking the Taoiseach, I can inform him that the Broadcasting Bill will be published tomorrow.

The Taoiseach

I said that yesterday. The national parks and historic properties Bill was deferred because of other priorities in the Department. The Department will return to the Bill once the Wildlife (Amendment) Bill is through.

Ms McManus

A Cheann Comhairle, I am sure you will join me in congratulating the Irish Haemophilia Society for finally getting the Government to agree to the terms of reference for the tribunal of inquiry. When will the motion to establish the tribunal be put to the House? How quickly can this be done?

The Taoiseach

I join the Deputy in congratulating the Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Cowen, for successfully bringing this matter to a conclusion. The terms of reference will be taken as soon as possible.

Ms McManus

I have stated a difficulty in the past with the vague terminology used by the Taoiseach. In this instance there has been a two and a half year wait. Will he be more specific in terms of what would appear to be a relatively simple motion to be put to the House which all Members will wish to support soon. Will the Taoiseach specify when we can expect to be in a position to do so? This is a very important issue.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has asked a question and she need not elaborate on this matter.

Ms McManus

Sixty eight people have died and people deserve a better answer from the Taoiseach than the vague response he has given the House.

The Taoiseach

I have said that this matter will be dealt with as soon as possible. There will be no delay.

Mrs. Owen

I am sure the Taoiseach is aware that last night the city was clogged up out to the Naas Road because of the Bruce Springsteen concert.

Mr. Kenny

The Boss.

Mrs. Owen

Perhaps the Taoiseach was at the concert. There seemed to be no measures in place to keep the traffic moving and to separate those going to the concert from normal traffic. People were delayed for three hours. Will the road traffic legislation include measures to ensure that necessary resources are made available to the Garda in the case of major events? Perhaps the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has a role in this matter also.

Mr. J. Bruton

It was the same at the fireworks display.

An Ceann Comhairle

Questions on the content of legislation are not in order on the Order of Business.

Mrs. Owen

The Garda Síochána's answer is that people from outside Dublin only know one route into Dublin. Are there any proposals in the road traffic legislation to deal with major events such as this concert?

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot have questions on the content of legislation.

Mr. Stagg

Is legislation promised or required to implement the decision taken by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Harney, to abolish community employment schemes in schools whereby caretakers, secretaries and classroom assistants are employed?

Mr. Quinn

Absolute madness.

Mr. Stagg

As a result of this decision will a supplementary budget be introduced for the Department of Education and Science to employ full-time staff to replace these people?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy is talking nonsense.

Mr. Stagg

The assistants do not think I am talking nonsense.

The Taoiseach

There are 40,000 places on community employment schemes. The Minister announced 11,000 new positions in training and a subsequent reduction of 2,500 places on community employment schemes, 250 for each region. She made it clear that there will be no change in the procedure for schools.

Mr. Stagg

Will the Taoiseach elaborate on his answer?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Taoiseach cannot elaborate on the Order of Business.

Mr. Cowen

Where is Deputy Stagg's honesty now?

Mr. Stagg

If I am being dishonest, the schools are being dishonest.

Mr. Higgins (Mayo)

Two weeks ago in the wake of the excellent and frightening RTE series "States of Fear", the Taoiseach promised at a press conference that we would shortly see the Bill to give effect to a register of sex offenders. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy O'Donoghue, refused to take part in the "Prime Time" programme last night but issued a statement that the Bill would be produced within the month. What is the position with this Bill?

The Taoiseach

As I said two weeks ago, the Bill will be produced as soon as possible. It was due later this year and the Minister is trying to bring that forward. A draft text of the general scheme was circulated to Departments about one week ago.

Ms O'Sullivan

I thank the Taoiseach for providing Government time to debate the Statute of Limitations Bill which is an important part of our collective response to the horrific child abuse which took place.

Mr. Cowen

I thank the Deputy.

Mr. Higgins (Dublin West)

During the Adjournment debate last night, the Minister of State, Deputy Fahey, stated that if conclusive evidence emerges that radiation from mobile telephones is causing an unacceptable —

An Ceann Comhairle

We cannot continue a debate which took place last night. If the Deputy has a question on promised legislation he should ask it?

Mr. Higgins (Dublin West)

In fairness, a Cheann Comhairle, Deputy Owen went on about the Bruce Springsteen concert —

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should ask his question on the Order of Business.

Mr. Higgins (Dublin West)

Deputy Owen was clearly out of order but she went on for as long as it takes Bruce Springsteen to sing a song.

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy is not going to ask a question he should resume his seat.

Mr. Higgins (Dublin West)

A lot of damage could be done in the interim period before, perhaps, it is proven that damage is caused to health by mobile telephones. Does the Government have legislation ready providing for risk reduction measures such as mandatory health warnings on mobile telephones, radiation reduction and other measures which would ensure that people using mobile telephones are substantially less at risk?

An Ceann Comhairle

This matter was discussed yesterday on the Adjournment debate.

Mrs. Owen

Does Deputy Higgins want three telephones for his three jobs?

The Taoiseach

There is no promised legislation. However, the Government is treating the research seriously and is carefully monitoring what is being said by the EU. More evidence is being produced which is being closely examined by the Departments of Health and Children and Public Enterprise.

Mr. Yates

After the ECOFIN meeting yesterday, is it the Government's position that the duty free retention campaign is over?

An Ceann Comhairle

This matter is being dealt with today by Parliamentary Question No. 23. We cannot anticipate questions on the Order Paper.

Mr. Yates

Will a meeting take place in Barcelona tonight which might solve this matter?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should resume his seat. Deputy Donal Carey has a question on this matter on today's Order Paper.

Mr. Quinn

Given that the second largest bank in the State is contemplating a merger with the British-based Alliance and Leicester bank, will the Taoiseach indicate when the legislation arising from the McDowell report will be brought before the House and will it have a bearing on any regulatory implications for such a merger?

The Taoiseach

Regulatory clearance will be required from the European Commission in accordance with EU regulations. I do not have any proposals at this stage. The discussions between the two banks will be ongoing over the next few weeks and they are in touch with the Central Bank. I do not know what the outcome of those discussions will be.

An Ceann Comhairle

Perhaps the Deputy should table a parliamentary question.

Mr. Quinn

Legislation has been promised arising from the McDowell report. When is it expected that legislation will be brought before the House?

The Taoiseach

The report will be with the Minister and Government and we will make a decision on it at that stage.

Mr. G. Mitchell

Members of the Oireachtas came under attack last week when visiting Irish troops in the Lebanon. I have asked the Taoiseach about legislation to give effect to the UN Convention on the Protection of UN Personnel Serving Abroad. Will the Taoiseach accept the Fine Gael Private Members' Bill or will he introduce legislation soon given that those attacking Irish troops can be prosecuted in 23 countries but not in Ireland?

The Taoiseach

As I have said before, that legislation is being prepared and is due later in the year, but I will ask if it can be brought forward.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

When will we see the White Paper on rural development which was due to be published last year? The only development we have seen in rural Ireland in the time of the Government is a threat to close rural post offices.

Mr. M. Smith

The Deputy has missed the boat on that one.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Does the Taoiseach appreciate the urgency?

Mr. Cowen

Leave the butterbox in the office.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

When will we see the White Paper? Will the Taoiseach ensure—

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not in order on the Order of Business. We must proceed.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Can I get a response?

An Ceann Comhairle

No, questions on White Papers are not in order on the Order of Business.